Barça vs. Bayern

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by urbaNRoots on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:42 pm

@futbol wrote:Today #JusticeForDortmund will be delivered. Proud

I think everyone will cheer for Barca tonight.

Make us proud Proud

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by eelir on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:09 pm

My daughter is positive we are going to win Smile

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by futbol on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:20 pm

Hahahaha. That's so cute. Very Happy

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by eelir on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Well, obviously my daughter knows nothing about football. And this is embarrassing Sad
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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by kiranr on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:33 pm


This is not pretty lol.
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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:39 pm

The era of Dream Team I ended with the 4-0 defeat to Milan.

Tonight for me marks the definitive point where the era of Dream Team II ends.

I say this not out of anger or make any complaint. It's merely a silent acceptance that all good things must come to an end. Thank you very much Dream Team II. The good days will remain in our memories forever.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by vivabarca38 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:47 pm

I dont know what you're on about,but Dream Team II did not end,yet.Sell four or 5 players and replace them with 4 or 5 players and we're back on track.
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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:48 pm

I'm terribly disillusioned. I always thought this Bayern was going to be a tough nut to crack and I thought we would lose this game, but not quite this embarrassingly. I don't have any huge issues with the starting eleven (well, depending on whether messi was really cleared to play or we're just saying he was). But what pisses me off the most is the absolute lack of reaction. Even when we were 2-0 down there was no one warming up in the bench. This in a game where Messi's contribution is to make us look like we're playing with a match less. It was clear after his first half performance that he would not contribute anything in the second half, yet the 2H started and he was still there, 60 minutes in he's still there, 80 minutes in and he's still there... We desperately needed an away goal, looked nowhere near to getting it, and there's no reaction from the bench. Meanwhile, Tello the ultimate supersub is not even in the bench.

I hear there is a great German manager out of a job soon that has his players pressing like their life depends on it...
I'm not seriously suggesting we kick Tito out, I'm just rather angry at the moment

Also JD no way is our cycle ended. An effective summer and we're back to being able to win the CL.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by eelir on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:54 pm

I think if we change 4-5 players we already have a different team. Xavi is getting older, and the way we play needs to change even more. So maybe a Dream Team 2.5
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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by CBarca on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:57 pm

An effective summer and we're back to being able to win the CL.

When's the last time that happened?

I didn't get to see the game as usual.

Truth be told I'm not sure I'm going to watch this one. The scoreline hurts enough, I'm...glad I didn't have to watch it. I might still watch it, I'm just not sure.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by BarcaLearning on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:59 pm

My conclusions from game include:

- Bayern are showing just how complete and good they are. With Gotze and Pep if things continue, they will be a real force in the next few years
- We are showing more often vs more oppositions that our style is being countered and we are not flexible enough in our game, we play despite our weaknesses being exposed and countered
- Tito is no Pep in that he doesnt have the influence and decsiveness in difficult situations, no subs or change in game strats
- I dont know what should be the plan going forward for the team strat and tactics wise. Its clear tika taka has its weaknesses being exposed now by many opponents and yet we just stick to it stubornly without a real plan B. That is fine as it is club/manager/team identity I guess, but I think it is better to be more flexible and pragmatic in times of need to counter back opponents. In fact I will make a thread and I hope all the experts and have their opinions on this Razz
- End of era in terms of we are no longer the clear best team in the world dominating, with Pep gone, players aging, other clubs catching up, etc. We will still be competitive right up there but not like the clear no.1 as in the previous few years. I have come to this as I hear a lot of the past great teams the same cycles and this is clearly just the norm unfortunately Sad
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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:04 pm

@vivabarca38 wrote:I dont know what you're on about,but Dream Team II did not end,yet.Sell four or 5 players and replace them with 4 or 5 players and we're back on track.

Sure we could be but every time a club does that it's seen as the creation of a new team. Hence I stick to my original comment.


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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by BarcaKizz on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:11 pm

A few disjointed points because I really cbf right now.

1. We got our asses handed to us and deservedly so. We just got beaten by the best team in the world. They deserve the trophy.

2. Its actually a little bit liberating this feeling. I can't remember the last time I felt deservedly beaten and not robbed somewhat in being knocked out. I think it would be about 2004? Yes the ref made mistakes, but on both sides. We were horrid, don't even bring the ref up.

3. Why Pep's greatest innovation, intense collective pressing, has been dropped from our tactical game is beyond me. In my opinion there's no point playing possession football if you don't also try and win early ball.

4. We need big changes. We've ignored our weaknesses too long.
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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by vivabarca38 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:12 pm

Its still going to play with the same Possession play style and all that but the team will be revolutionized.It would still be remembered as the era in which Barcelona dominated if we do some changes soon.
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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by danyjr on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:15 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:My conclusions from game include:

- Bayern are showing just how complete and good they are. With Gotze and Pep if things continue, they will be a real force in the next few years
- We are showing more often vs more oppositions that our style is being countered and we are not flexible enough in our game, we play despite our weaknesses being exposed and countered
- Tito is no Pep in that he doesnt have the influence and decsiveness in difficult situations, no subs or change in game strats
- I dont know what should be the plan going forward for the team strat and tactics wise. Its clear tika taka has its weaknesses being exposed now by many opponents and yet we just stick to it stubornly without a real plan B. That is fine as it is club/manager/team identity I guess, but I think it is better to be more flexible and pragmatic in times of need to counter back opponents. In fact I will make a thread and I hope all the experts and have their opinions on this Razz
- End of era in terms of we are no longer the clear best team in the world dominating, with Pep gone, players aging, other clubs catching up, etc. We will still be competitive right up there but not like the clear no.1 as in the previous few years. I have come to this as I hear a lot of the past great teams the same cycles and this is clearly just the norm unfortunately Sad
Very good post. I agree with pretty much everything. And I can't say I didn't see this coming. I think Barcelona have been past their best for a couple of seasons but due to Messi's brilliance or other teams choking they managed to go through, but not this time.

Who's to blame? Human psychology is the most important. You can talk about tactics all night but my father, a football coach once told me when I wasn't running enough in the pitch that "the team who runs (but not literally) more will win ". The difference between eagerness in the two teams was so blatant, the way Bayern players won every 50-50, so full of running and hunger to win.

Other factors are obviously tactical, the monotone style that Barcelona play with no physical presence or pace in the pitch made them too predictable and having a manager at helm whom, to me, lacked that kind of charisma at the start. Defensive problems have been very obvious since seasons ago, which were neglected. The sad thing I predict for Barcelona is that they'll end up signing a couple of overrated players for big money in the summer who won't help them solve their issues.

In the end, I want to say I felt the pain Xavi and Iniesta were going through when the camera switched to them after the 4th goal. They are battered, done and dusted but these guys will always be remembered as legends.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by FennecFox7 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:55 pm

Messi walking after he loses the ball is pathetic.

For once I feel bad for sanchez and xavi because they have to pressure and work their asses off while messi doesn't give a damn.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:56 pm

@BarcaKizz wrote:A few disjointed points because I really cbf right now.

1. We got our asses handed to us and deservedly so. We just got beaten by the best team in the world. They deserve the trophy.

2. Its actually a little bit liberating this feeling. I can't remember the last time I felt deservedly beaten and not robbed somewhat in being knocked out. I think it would be about 2004? Yes the ref made mistakes, but on both sides. We were horrid, don't even bring the ref up.

3. Why Pep's greatest innovation, intense collective pressing, has been dropped from our tactical game is beyond me. In my opinion there's no point playing possession football if you don't also try and win early ball.

4. We need big changes. We've ignored our weaknesses too long.

kizz, great post. Some comments.

1. Agree. They need to win this trophy to take over officially as the world's best team.

2. Very well said. While this was going on I was saying to myself Inter parked the bus in 2010, Chelsea did it to the most extreme possible extent in 2012 but what's happening tonight is completely different. We are actually being very deservedly beaten by a much better team. After a defeat like this there isn't much anger or frustration. That happens when you feel you deserved more than you got. Instead it's more a case of resignation and acceptance that we had it coming and were just trying to deny or at least delay it for as long as possible.

3. Very true. It's quite baffling. Some have said that Ronaldinho's off pitch antics aside this was the main reason why the team of Frank Rijkaard had declined so fast so soon.

4. Guess no one would dream of disagreeing with that now.


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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by danyjr on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:58 pm

Yeah...I remember I used to say this about Cristiano. Things have changed.

And we've all heard the case of the rotten apple.

#SaveMessi

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:03 pm

@danyjr wrote:In the end, I want to say I felt the pain Xavi and Iniesta were going through when the camera switched to them after the 4th goal. They are battered, done and dusted but these guys will always be remembered as legends.

Immense thanks for saying that. After a defeat of this kind I couldn't have asked for anything better than this to read or hear just before going to sleep.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by BarcaLearning on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:10 pm

@danyjr wrote:
@BarcaLearning wrote:My conclusions from game include:

- Bayern are showing just how complete and good they are. With Gotze and Pep if things continue, they will be a real force in the next few years
- We are showing more often vs more oppositions that our style is being countered and we are not flexible enough in our game, we play despite our weaknesses being exposed and countered
- Tito is no Pep in that he doesnt have the influence and decsiveness in difficult situations, no subs or change in game strats
- I dont know what should be the plan going forward for the team strat and tactics wise. Its clear tika taka has its weaknesses being exposed now by many opponents and yet we just stick to it stubornly without a real plan B. That is fine as it is club/manager/team identity I guess, but I think it is better to be more flexible and pragmatic in times of need to counter back opponents. In fact I will make a thread and I hope all the experts and have their opinions on this Razz
- End of era in terms of we are no longer the clear best team in the world dominating, with Pep gone, players aging, other clubs catching up, etc. We will still be competitive right up there but not like the clear no.1 as in the previous few years. I have come to this as I hear a lot of the past great teams the same cycles and this is clearly just the norm unfortunately Sad
Very good post. I agree with pretty much everything. And I can't say I didn't see this coming. I think Barcelona have been past their best for a couple of seasons but due to Messi's brilliance or other teams choking they managed to go through, but not this time.

Who's to blame? Human psychology is the most important. You can talk about tactics all night but my father, a football coach once told me when I wasn't running enough in the pitch that "the team who runs (but not literally) more will win ". The difference between eagerness in the two teams was so blatant, the way Bayern players won every 50-50, so full of running and hunger to win.

Other factors are obviously tactical, the monotone style that Barcelona play with no physical presence or pace in the pitch made them too predictable and having a manager at helm whom, to me, lacked that kind of charisma at the start. Defensive problems have been very obvious since seasons ago, which were neglected. The sad thing I predict for Barcelona is that they'll end up signing a couple of overrated players for big money in the summer who won't help them solve their issues.

In the end, I want to say I felt the pain Xavi and Iniesta were going through when the camera switched to them after the 4th goal. They are battered, done and dusted but these guys will always be remembered as legends.

Thx for the explanation... its actually a funny feeling...not that long ago, Im just a regular fan and still half is, didnt knwo too much and so were able to "dream" more, but as I read and learn more from here especially...watch more football, I understand it more and its all more "predictable" and in the past I wouldnt of saw this result coming but today as sad as it is I sort of thought it could happen. I totally agree, we were great and rode our luck at times and now its finally cracked... and I realise since I witness it first half why all the great teams in the past decline despite maybe not changing a lot. The main thing as u mention is human psychology, and u just cant be at the absolute top top form all the time.

Some saying Bayern will dominate in the next few years, but then it is likelyt that things will happen to them too if they continue this path Razz

I hope we dont make mistakes in the transfer market....I think we are more shrewd than that... but I wonder what will Tito and the team do in the summer...

@messixaviesta wrote:
@BarcaKizz wrote:A few disjointed points because I really cbf right now.

1. We got our asses handed to us and deservedly so. We just got beaten by the best team in the world. They deserve the trophy.

2. Its actually a little bit liberating this feeling. I can't remember the last time I felt deservedly beaten and not robbed somewhat in being knocked out. I think it would be about 2004? Yes the ref made mistakes, but on both sides. We were horrid, don't even bring the ref up.

3. Why Pep's greatest innovation, intense collective pressing, has been dropped from our tactical game is beyond me. In my opinion there's no point playing possession football if you don't also try and win early ball.

4. We need big changes. We've ignored our weaknesses too long.

kizz, great post. Some comments.

1. Agree. They need to win this trophy to take over officially as the world's best team.

2. Very well said. While this was going on I was saying to myself Inter parked the bus in 2010, Chelsea did it to the most extreme possible extent in 2012 but what's happening tonight is completely different. We are actually being very deservedly beaten by a much better team. After a defeat like this there isn't much anger or frustration. That happens when you feel you deserved more than you got. Instead it's more a case of resignation and acceptance that we had it coming and were just trying to deny or at least delay it for as long as possible.

3. Very true. It's quite baffling. Some have said that Ronaldinho's off pitch antics aside this was the main reason why the team of Frank Rijkaard had declined so fast so soon.

4. Guess no one would dream of disagreeing with that now.


Agree with that, although same, not sure about point 3, I guess it goes back to the point above, the team and players lose hunger to press as hard? Although I still think we press very well and mainly have the will do it....but a little bit difference is all the difference needed....

Bayern for me have been the top 3 teams in the past few years, they made 2 CL finals dont forget... and Im hoping for them to beat Real in the final likely now Smile
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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by windkick on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:23 pm

Ouch.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by rnuop on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:33 pm





It was like watching the Patriots beating the Colts in the playoffs a couple years back. Anytime one of the skill players of Barca would get the ball Bayern Munich would run into them with their bodies neutralizing the finesse play of Barcelona. Sure there looked to be some handballs, but come on that pick Muller put on Jordi Alba was ridiculous. Gomez's goal was obviously offsides. And the 4th goal was just cause Alba was pissed he kept getting man handled and was not getting any calls. You foul Messi twice that should be a yellow card. You can't just keep stopping the flow of game and the counterattack by running your body into Barca's smaller players. God that was ugly.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by rnuop on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:37 pm

Pep how could u... well at least there's a strat to stop them from repeating in the world cup

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by LeBéninois on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:48 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@danyjr wrote:In the end, I want to say I felt the pain Xavi and Iniesta were going through when the camera switched to them after the 4th goal. They are battered, done and dusted but these guys will always be remembered as legends.

Immense thanks for saying that. After a defeat of this kind I couldn't have asked for anything better than this to read or hear just before going to sleep.

As well as it hurts me , i go to admit that Bayern ws the much better team. It takes a team of that level to beat us. How the management is going to react , who they will bring in or sell is going to be determinant for the next years.

The whole team has been relying of the same 4-5 same players over the past years and today it was pretty clear

I was mad at Tito for being passive and not making any change but now i just realize how much the bench is weak. i couldn't think of any player that would have helped bar maybe villa.

1- Pep Guardiola deserves all the praise he has receive and even more. His first moves was spot on : Alves , Piqué .

hope the board don't go for big names as it's been proven that they aren't the most succesful as talented as they are.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by shinigami99 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:49 pm

Messi needs to press, I don't give a shit if he can't play every game. We can't be a one man team because a football team has 11 players. Yes, there may be geniuses like Messi who come along once every generation or so, but if you put enough players on them, even they can't do anything. We looked slow, there were no runs being made, passes were all over the place. Maybe the hunger is gone-though we saw a glimpse of it vs. AC Milan. Unlike that game, it is actually impossible in my view to overcome this deficit against this Bayern side.

The only thing that I want from the return leg is that we play our hearts out and go out with style.

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Re: Barça vs. Bayern

Post by Brady2Moss on Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:06 am

@rnuop wrote:It was like watching the Patriots beating the Colts in the playoffs a couple years back. Anytime one of the skill players of Barca would get the ball Bayern Munich would run into them with their bodies neutralizing the finesse play of Barcelona. Sure there looked to be some handballs, but come on that pick Muller put on Jordi Alba was ridiculous. Gomez's goal was obviously offsides. And the 4th goal was just cause Alba was pissed he kept getting man handled and was not getting any calls. You foul Messi twice that should be a yellow card. You can't just keep stopping the flow of game and the counterattack by running your body into Barca's smaller players. God that was ugly.


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