2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by CBarca on Mon May 06, 2013 4:09 pm

That wouldn't happen to Suarez, I can guarantee it.

Also, I love Rooney and wouldn't mind him at Barca at all, but where would he play? I can't think of anywhere suitable. Surely we can't force him out wide, and that's what we would have to do since Messi plays in the middle.

He CAN play out wide no doubt as a very talented player but what an incredible waste that would be and it would be another failure in the Barca "buy a player for one position and play him in another" saga.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by danyjr on Mon May 06, 2013 4:18 pm

Both Suárez and Rooney will be very expensive (read: overpriced). As with any EPL player who's having a good season.

On defence signings, Sakho anyone? If Ancelotti stays he's sure to leave PSG. This would be a very good opportunity to pounce on him, given that PSG will not be too worried about the money and also Barcelona have a good relationship with them. Could be a bargain.

That being said, I'd still try Koscielny first.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Sanchez on Tue May 07, 2013 1:52 am

@danyjr wrote:Both Suárez and Rooney will be very expensive (read: overpriced). As with any EPL player who's having a good season.

On defence signings, Sakho anyone? If Ancelotti stays he's sure to leave PSG. This would be a very good opportunity to pounce on him, given that PSG will not be too worried about the money and also Barcelona have a good relationship with them. Could be a bargain.

That being said, I'd still try Koscielny first.

This. It seems like Carlo will stay and therefore Sakho will not longer stay any longer and we (alongside Arsenal) are the likely targets that he wants to go. Quickly get him. Shouldn't cost him too much...
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by CBarca on Tue May 07, 2013 2:21 am

Red in the Liverpool section saying Suarez would probably cost more than 50 million pounds.

Let's throw him out the window :facepalm:

He would be so perfect though Sad

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Sanchez on Tue May 07, 2013 7:19 am

Barcelona centre back options: Hummels, Kompany, David Luiz, Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Agger, Inigo Martinez, Marquinhos, Rakitskiy [md]
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarcaKizz on Tue May 07, 2013 7:38 am

Don't understand... How come when Pep goes to Bayern he's suddenly interested in Koscielny but we aren't...

That list doesn't interest me so much...

Hummels -- Could happen. Not 100% convinced, but good player.

Kompany -- Doubt City will sell. He wouldn't be worth that effort anyway (it would be a lot of effort I think)

Luiz -- He'd be incredibly overpriced.

Vertonghen -- It would be a bit of a fail considering De Boer handed us him on a platter and we rejected it... Now we'd have to pay double.

Vermaelen -- Would rather not. Mediocre.

Agger -- Carragher retiring; he'd cost a lot and is always injured. Could be worth it if cheapish (unlikely), but wouldn't be satisfied with JUST him.

Inigo -- Only if we sell or loan Bartra (don't want to) and if we bought another class defender.

Marquinhos -- Never seen him, heard good things, but probably similar boat to Inigo. We need one purchase to have class and experience.

Rakitskiy -- No thanks... He's a decent defender, but very risky. If he was like 6M or something and we got someone else too, some low profile player like him could be tempting though... He's not at all like Chygrinskiy despite predictable comparisons.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarcaKizz on Tue May 07, 2013 9:31 am

Still mulling over a good response to this thread... but I've had a bit of an idea I wanted to toss up.

Consensus is we should stick with 4-3-3 and I'd agree, but also ideas that we should have some tactical flexibility. So I'de love to hear some thoughts on different formations and systems we could use.

I thought of this one 3-5-2:



Defence

Theoretically less prone to counter with the extra man back there. Basically its a similar structure to what Guardiola used when we had the ball and Abidal would shift in and Alves went forward.

Allows Pique/Bartra to go forward from that central role when we have the ball and bring it out w/ cover behind. Theoretically this should help Busquets play 5m or so higher and help Thiago replace Xavi in dictating tempo. Of course, we still use Xavi there too.

When teams counter, we already have a right and left defender in place to come out to their wide attackers coming inside, and we have Busquets and Pique monitoring central threats. Rarely do teams attack us with more than 3 essentially offensive players.

When we recover, our wide mids come back and pick up the wide threats, and the 2 wider defenders tuck inside. Like so:



I've tried to highlight that when we recover, the wide players immediately push out to give width, but we also have 2 very dangerous players up front in place to counter on our own.

Mid

Stays the same really, which is why I like this as opposed to 4-2-3-1 and 3-4-3 and others which alter our midfield combinations.

Allows Busi to play a little bit higher perhaps, while CM positions can be more dynamic (good because of our personnel coming through- Thiago, Roberto... even Cesc).

Forwards

Should give freedom to both Nerman and Messi, which they need. Both can drop in between lines when needed and look for wide outlets who are to hit the byline.

Interplay with Thiago and Iniesta encouraged.

Offers possibility of playing with a more physical CF as well, without taking Messi from a completely central role.

Trade-off (but IMO good and necessary) is less Messidependencia.

-----------


So, thoughts? Please grill me. I'm sure there are faults you'll find, and some I may not be able to defend, but its just an idea.

I don't see it as 'more defensive'. I think you make the system with your philosophy, and I think this can apply here.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by free_cat on Tue May 07, 2013 10:17 am

I thought of that and it could work. it's a good setup.
I think this could be used especially in games where we won't dominate much, like vs big teams.
Only problems I see:
- we might lack off the ball movement if neymar and messi don't do runs behind their defence.
- I think overlapping is one of the most successful attacking strategies out there, and there wouldn't be much (although there could be some when neymar or messi drop in the wing)
- We would have a surplus of now useless wingers: Tello, Deulofeu, Pedro, Cuenca...

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarcaKizz on Tue May 07, 2013 10:41 am

-I agree with overlap, but we rarely use it like we used to. Also this is a tactical variation, like I said, and so we can still also use 4-3-3.

As you say though, I think we can create some overlaps with smart rotation of players. Thiago and Iniesta both drift wide well, and Messi and Iniesta should be searching for space out wide as well as the centre.

-Hadn't thought of off-ball movement behind the line so much, so good point. I guess it can be solved by playing someone else there if not working. Does rely on Nerman and Messi brilliance, but they can produce.

-As for wingers. Well Tello, Pedro and Cuenca can all possibly play the wide role, it just means they need to get back and make their presence felt. Depending on how aggressive we want to be, we can play more attacking players. Deulofeu and Tello could possibly play Neymar role.

Then of course, we will still use 4-3-3 too.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue May 07, 2013 3:49 pm

I like Marquinhos and think he could be very successful for us. Roma under Zeman played in a high line and he did well (considering Zeman didn't even practice defensive training), he had great distribution, and is very composed. But he's not physical enough and he's weak in the air. Not what we need.

Kizz I wholeheartedly agree that the 3-5-2 could be our 2nd formation and I've thought so for some time. In your defensive scheme, I think Busquets should play a little further ahead (defending with 6 defenders seems excessive and there's probably more use in busquets pressing the ball and getting out of AMs than covering the forwards).

One of the problems I see is that it requires 3 CBs, and depending on who comes and who goes, that might put too many of them at injury risk. If we only have 4 CBs then it's not a strategy we can utilize often.

Neymar and Messi should be given permission to counter-attack from there. One of the sometimes frustrating things about Barca is that when we have great counter-attack opportunities we rarely take advantage of them, usually by Xavi slowing down the tempo. While I am not advocating a complete change from possession-football it would be nice if we sometimes mixed it up and took a chance with these.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Tue May 07, 2013 10:37 pm

On formations, I think I would rather see this.



Reason being that it can be 3 or 4 (even 5 if need be) at the back on a whim and we can change it if the opponant changes mid-match, without having to make a sub.

As I said, dont think Iniesta as a forward at all because him not running off the ball in behind we gain that by playing and out and out 9 with Messi as a 10, therefore we gain that runner back. Its sorting of mixing the best of a 4231 (use of a pivot/runner up front middle) while trying to negate the weakness (numerical disadvantage in the midfield)

Still get overlap from Alba and while we dont get it on the right, we dont get it now anyway, Dani Alves isnt an overlapper like 5 years ago, he is too good with the ball at his feet.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarcaKizz on Thu May 09, 2013 4:55 pm

My article on Nerman

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1633916-how-neymar-would-fit-in-tactically-with-barcelona
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu May 09, 2013 5:13 pm

@The Franchise wrote:On formations, I think I would rather see this.

Spoiler:

Reason being that it can be 3 or 4 (even 5 if need be) at the back on a whim and we can change it if the opponant changes mid-match, without having to make a sub.

As I said, dont think Iniesta as a forward at all because him not running off the ball in behind we gain that by playing and out and out 9 with Messi as a 10, therefore we gain that runner back. Its sorting of mixing the best of a 4231 (use of a pivot/runner up front middle) while trying to negate the weakness (numerical disadvantage in the midfield)

Still get overlap from Alba and while we dont get it on the right, we dont get it now anyway, Dani Alves isnt an overlapper like 5 years ago, he is too good with the ball at his feet.
With both Villa and Alexis heavily rumored to be on the market, who do you see able to as the 9 in the future? Also, has Alexis ever played as a 9?

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarcaKizz on Thu May 09, 2013 5:41 pm

Rumoured if we sell Villa and Alexis we will go for another forward. So could have that quality.

Alexis played there a few times with Pep. Most notably in the first league Clasico, where he scored a nice goal. Moves well there, but doesn't really create goalscoring opps or finish well enough to be a great striker. More makeshift alternative than anything.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu May 09, 2013 5:53 pm

If we go that route I hope we bring a cheap, old poacher with aerial presence that can accept a bench role to play as a 9 vs parked buses. He will finish Dani Alves' 59 erred crosses in the CL (the most of any player this season).

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Thu May 09, 2013 5:58 pm

I think any system has to be with Neymar in mind as its bloody obvious he's coming.

In theory that set up there from Dani could work Neymar in mind but where exactly?

On the left and move Messi up with Iniesta behind? up top with Messi in behind or behind Messi?

I'll let you debate that amongst yourselves.

Also if Villa/Sanchez is sold i think it would be wise to buy a winger to replace them instead of a forward.

With Iniesta, Neymar and Messi you would need someone to keep width, work hard, stretch play and run in behind when necessary.

With that in mind who would you pursue?


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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Thu May 09, 2013 8:36 pm

Alexis has played as a 9 and even if he hadnt I wouldnt care, I think he has the qualities for it in terms of what we actually need. In a system like this we would need someone who can distract the centerbacks with vertical runs and runs in behind, also Alexis seems to be good at finding space in the box be it for tap ins or headers. Not the best finisher no, fully aware.

If both he and Villa were sold (hope they arent) then I would disagree with Mole, I think we would require a striker-ish player and not a winger. We already (potentially) have enough of them in Cuenca, Tello and Deulofeu.


Didnt include Neymar or anyone else new, only because they are not here yet, plus I dont care as much about players as I do system and was more just conveying the idea.


If we pushed Messi forward and Iniesta behind, then what I suggested would not work. The whole point of it is allowing Messi to play how he does, but without the opposing centerbacks following him and taking away the numerical advantage.

With Neymar, it doesnt work. I guess you could throw him on the right but I dont like the balance and I also dont like how he plays there. Only position is the left but with Iniesta, it just isnt going to happen.

And I also dont think this is a formation we should play most games either, most games we dont need that protection for Alba and I think we could throw caution to the wind more.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by Valkyrja on Thu May 09, 2013 10:09 pm

Go for Klose, he would be a great impact sub.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by juventus101 on Sat May 11, 2013 8:59 pm

You guys need a winger who likes to cut in, but also that relies more on technical ability than speed. A striker who can play out wide would fit too. Rooney, Suarez, Lavezzi, and Torres would all fit well in my opinion. Neymar i personally dont think would fit Barca. Then a quick CB such as Sakho or Koscielny, a GK such as Handanovic or Caballero, and a Xavi replacement unless Fabregas takes over.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Sat May 11, 2013 9:13 pm

You really named Torres?

Why? We are trying to get better.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by juventus101 on Sun May 12, 2013 2:42 am

I think Torres would have a better chance of getting back to his best if he was to go to La Liga, and also playing next to Messi certainly wouldn't hurt.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun May 12, 2013 2:46 am

Torres is not getting his game back. When you base your game around explosive speed (which frankly would not be that useful for us either) and you lose that speed, and with it your confidence, you are just done.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by Kick on Sun May 12, 2013 4:21 am

Torres playing for Barca. rofl rofl rofl

Also, Torres is shocking out wide. rofl

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun May 12, 2013 10:22 am

if I had to put my input in what you probably need:

Goalie: If valdez leaves you would need somebody to replace him unless Tito is content with Pinto as his first choice. The options aren't scarce in this area as there are quite a few you could get namely Willy, Guita/Alves, Ter Stegen or Reina I mean your management could wait until the last day of transfer and still get a goalkeeper that could also prove fruitful since Pinto can be tested through a long haul of friendlies in the summer

CB: with Puyol staying out more and more it looks increasingly likely he will be a part player playing when others need rest and Marcherano isn't really working out and Batra has not bee used enough tl be trusted as a starter. People are suggesting Kompany but he is a RCB the same as Pique, this might sound minor but it could look like a huge difference on the pitch. Maybe go for Nastasic, Hummels, Koscielny or Garay. I mean they are all great so it goes to who would compliment Pique the best and imho its probably Koscielny.

LB: Some of you might be content with Alba/Adriano perhaps you could try getting Luis but thats probably just me

somebody to give iniesta some competition maybe that could eliminate his inconsistency. I don't know who would maybe somebody from your b team Rafinha hmm

LF: yeah so here is where you have a huge problem. Your management want to splash 40 for Neymar when Isco is propably a better fit and laliga proven and cheaper Proud

RF: Pedro seems to need replacing as well and if you go after neymar you probably wouldn't be able to go after Bale, maybe Navas or somebody old to ease the transition of Deulofeu

you are potentially looking at 6 players who would probably cost less than 100 together and you could get quite a few millions from players sale or use them as baits to get somebody for cheap
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by danyjr on Sun May 12, 2013 12:43 pm

Barcelona chief reveals summer spending plan

The Blaugrana, who were confirmed as champions of Spain on Saturday night, are hoping to bring in a replacement for goalkeeper Victor Valdés, centre-back and striker

Barcelona vice-president Josep María Bartomeu has revealed that the club hope to sign three players this summer.

Real Madrid's 1-1 draw with Espanyol on Saturday night handed the Blaugrana their fourth title in five seasons but the Catalans' humiliating 7-0 aggregate defeat by Bayern Munich in the semi-finals of the Champions League has impressed upon the club's hierarchy the need to strengthen during the close-season.

"Victor Valdés has told us that he will not continue, so we need to try to find a replacement goalkeeper this summer," Bartomeu is quoted as saying by SPORT. "But also a central defender and a forward."

The Blaugrana director also insisted that Barca do not need to be completely rebuilt, arguing that had they been in better physical condition they would have beaten Bayern.

"If it had not been for that [their alleged end-of-season fatigue], we would have played in the Champions League final," he argued.

Therefore, Bartomeu believes that there is no need for doom and gloom and that the club's fans should enjoy their Liga title-winning parade.

"It is a celebration that the team deserves, especially [coach Tito] Vilanova and [defender Éric] Abidal, but also all of the people who have been following Barca," he enthused.

"We must be grateful to these players. The first half of the season was spectacular. Things are still going well, so we have much to celebrate."

Vilanova and Abidal have both battled back from cancer to play their part in this season's title triumph.

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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

Post by The Franchise on Sun May 12, 2013 1:26 pm

Highly niave to blame fatigue, there is clear fundemental problems in terms of how we play.

But at least there is recognition we require at least 3 signings. I would argue 4 but I will take what we are given.
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Re: 2013-14 'Blue-Print'- Discussion of Transfers, Tactical Changes etc.

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