Syria

RedOranje wrote:Right, the weapons aren't being destroyed because they were used on civilians or anything... just because it benefits the US (and Russia who were the deal brokers).

Any intervention in the Middle East by the U.S.A. is done to enhance Israel's national security. This is hardly debatable.

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:

RedOranje wrote:Right, the weapons aren't being destroyed because they were used on civilians or anything... just because it benefits the US (and Russia who were the deal brokers).

Any intervention in the Middle East by the U.S.A. is done to enhance Israel's national security. This is hardly debatable.

The only thing that's "hardly debatable" in these discussions is that you (and you're by no means alone in this) are attempting to take a series of very complicated decisions in a highly complex situation and attribute them to a single determining/motivating factor... something absurd even when you HAVE full knowledge of a situation, nevermind when you have only information that fits your personal world view and little to no background in the subject matter.

It seems as if the Assad regime is going strong and will continue to do so. The stability the Assad regime will provide will counter the threat posed by Islamist militant groups who were amongst the rebels.

So, the west decides to intervene into the Syrian civil war by supporting Sunni rebel aka terrorist groups with money and weapons, directly with its intelligence agencies, or via Turkey and Saudi Arabia (who were doing it all along anyway).

A year or so later, a Sunni terrorist militia from Syria sweeps into Iraq, advancing rapidly as they surprisingly have lots of money and weapons.

You got to love the news coverage not connecting the dots here, as usual.

Hapless_Hans wrote:So, the west decides to intervene into the Syrian civil war by supporting Sunni rebel aka terrorist groups with money and weapons, directly with its intelligence agencies, or via Turkey and Saudi Arabia (who were doing it all along anyway).

A year or so later, a Sunni terrorist militia from Syria sweeps into Iraq, advancing rapidly as they surprisingly have lots of money and weapons.

You got to love the news coverage not connecting the dots here, as usual.

Spot on.

This is getting out of control, Saudis are preparing a ground invasion while Turkish artillery has already started openly shelling Kurdish area in Syria. apparently they're going to create a buffer zone deep in Syria. the moment they hit Russians/IRGC/Syrian forces it gets out of hand. Russians are ready to strike back at Turkey.

Shit is about to hit the fan.

Syria is a failed state at this point, and with no end in sight splitting it up between the neighboring countries and the Kurds might really be the best solution.

There is no hope.

Russia are waiting eagerly to attack Turkey and just looking for a chance. Which they will get when Turkey shoot down anything/anyone Russian related.

Saudi are jumping in for the sole reason of not letting Assad regain power and for another state to be ran by Shiites. No idea what army they are going to hire this time since Pakistan have declined to take part. Probably hire few of their fellow ISIS mates

Syria's population will get to 50% in the next 5-10 years if this keeps going on. Europe will continue to get more immigrants. People will continue to die.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Syria is a failed state at this point, and with no end in sight splitting it up between the neighboring countries and the Kurds might really be the best solution.

No way. After 15 years some group will form to regain Syria. It is pointless. Best solution is to let the current Asad Government continue for a while and split the county for the rebels.

So now Turkey and Soudi are bombing PYD kurds who US called important force against ISIS.

aren't turkey and Soudi their allies?... What is happening?

Adit wrote:So now Turkey and Soudi are bombing PYD kurds who US called important force against ISIS.

aren't turkey and Soudi their allies?... What is happening?

It's a clusterfck, NATO country shelling US allies who are fighting CIA-backed troops.  

Turkey doesn't get their orders from the US when it comes to Kurds, their government regards PYD as a terrorist organization while US doesn't. also PYD are helping Assad to regain rebel held areas in the north.

The Kurds have actually fought ISIS & regained a portion of their country. I see no reason why they should be bombed, when ISIS is supposed to be the evil force. There was no provocation n neither did they attack Turkey.

Turkey is one of the pillars supporting the illegal oil trade with ISIS. There was no reason for them to blow off a Russian plane & kill millions when they had a cordial or atleast a working relation with Russia & ISIS was the target.

Some1 has to get some sense into the Turks.

Russia has never targeted ISIS

Their intervention in Syria is to support Assad and oppose the rebels, no reason why any NATO country should support them. Especially when Assad has killed so many more people than ISIS it's not even a comparison.

This is not to say Assad isn't a bad guy - he probably is & any killing is bad. But Every dictator has killed it's own people. Did Saudi not kill it's own people, even desenters & people protesting for democracy?  Saddam was using chemical weapons at Iran & US was turning a blind eye. The most radical Islamic sect is the wahhabi Saudi ultra radical dynasty.

But if Assad goes Syria plunges into a mess & ISIS takes over. The whole region would explode soon. I don't know y people are so dumb enough to not realize this. ISIS should be taken out 1st

And there is really no proof of Russia doing more damage to rebels than ISIS. Maybe they have hit those rebels, intentionally or un-intentionally & I condemn it, but so far they have been much more effective against ISIS than the NATO forces who frankly suck.

I don't know what business Turkey has in there - If this is going on & there is another provocation like taking another Russian plane then we may soon see Russia bombing Turkey full scale war!

Hasn't Assad killed 10x more civilians than ISIS? What's to say an Assad-led Syria is not better than one by ISIS?

Assad has been in power for decades though.

ISIS already has 1/10 killed is staggering.

My understanding was that those stats were only about this current civil war, but perhaps I'm wrong

Yeah. In the civil war alone, Assad has killed 15,000 people while ISIS has killed 2,000.

http://www.ibtimes.com/syrias-civilian-death-toll-number-isis-victims-2015-much-less-assad-regime-inflicted-2242839

The idea that ISIS is worse and we have to go after them first is absolutely ridiculous and borne out of eurocentric racism.

As for whether Russia is going after the rebels or ISIS, again, that is abundantly clear to anyone who has been paying attention. All of their airstrikes have been in rebel held areas to support Assad in taking them back, and almost all of the casualties have been civilians.

http://time.com/4129222/russia-airstrikes-syria-civilian-casualties-isis/

Isis is definitely worse though. Their aim is to take over the whole world, they will badly attack Europe, India,Russia,Israel etc if they gets control of the region.

Asad while being a cruel dictator is not a threat to other countries at least.

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and ask to clarify.

Are you saying you don't care what Assad does to his people as long as he leaves the rest of the world alone?

I can't believe people here are comparing ISIL with Assad.

At least Assad is killing his own people, Daesh terrorists are killing people all over the world.

Cruijf wrote:I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and ask to clarify.

Are you saying you don't care what Assad does to his people as long as he leaves the rest of the world alone?

I don't know what is there to clarify. Isis getting land= terrorist activities all over the world going sky high.

Not saying what Asad doing is OK but he isn't a religious terrorist, what he wants is power in Syria and he isn't a big threat to the world.

...so a dictator should be allowed to willfully kill his own people so long as he doesn't bother his neighbors?

Nobody said that though. If choice comes down to Asad getting the land or Isis getting the land then Asad is definitely better.

It's matter of choice, not that I want to watch Asad killing innocent people. Take him out after ISIS is gone, isn't that a better idea.

Even when you know Assad will kill more people?

That's straight up racist 'our lives matter more than theirs" rubbish. Makes me sick.

Isis will be killing more people once they spread.

Recent Paris attack tells you anything?

So yeah, if it is about Isis setting up a global Islamic terrorist organization all over the world and affecting the entire world and Asad killing people in Syria it is a no brainer.

Islamic terrorism once spread is so hard to contain. Asad can be taken out any time,he is a dictator not one with ideologies.