Are you at all worried...

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Are you at all worried...

Post by Art Morte on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:46 pm

that we haven't got pure RMs or LMs in our squad? 

And haven't been linked with any, either.

Looks like we're only looking to sign wingers / inside forwards (they're still pretty much the same thing to me) as far as wide areas are considered. 

One might argue that Downing is a Left or Right Midfielder, but I don't think any of us want to see him play that much next season. Henderson can play there, but that's just exploiting his all-roundedness.

I'm just thinking it might be good if we had a player like Newcastle's Jonas Gutierrez in the team, for those games against tough oppositions where the 4-3-3 might leave our midfield trio chasing shadows and our forward trio isolated. So far all the players we've been linked to (or have signed: Aspas) indicate that we're very much looking to play a very attacking 4-3-3. Furthermore we've got two exciting young wingers in Sterling and Ibe and right now it looks like they're being pushed away from first-team action.

I know it's a bit of a vague subject, but I do feel a little scared if we're going to be hugely dependant on the 4-3-3 because I doubt that will be the optimal tactic in every match. Sometimes you need to set your team up a bit more conservatively, no?
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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:13 pm

What? No team fields RMs/LMs these days, except the ones that are managed by hoofball tacticians. The age of hoofers is gone. Forward players these days are expected to be versatile and good in every aspect.

Jonas is a workhorse, nothing else. Even if he signs for us, he'll be playing in the center midfield. When we want to chase out a game, guys like Henderson and Shelvey can come on for the wide players since they're pretty good attacking wise as well as defensively.

Also.. Sterling and Ibe are NOT wingers. They are forwards who provide attacking threat from the flanks (inside forwards or wide forwards). Have you ever seen Sterling put up an accurate cross? Wingers are strictly meant to stick by the flank and cross the ball.

Even Downing is a winger by trade, but he was not used as a winger any time under Rodgers. He got opportunities because he has decent passing and work rate. If you notice, he used to cut inside a lot to make predictable attempts at goal.
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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:46 pm

We are not buying attacking midfielders who COULD play outwide.

It's something that Ancelloti and Pellegrini have done through out their managerial careers.

Both of them embracing a floated 4-2-2-2 system, where the 2 behind the 2 main strikers, are AMs who play relatively outwide.

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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by Nishankly on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:40 am

To be honest we don't have a single player in the squad bar Carroll, who probably won't be a part of LFC next season, who attacks/can attack a aerial lob or a normal cross from the byline. Sturridge rarely tries. Suarez tries to unsettle the defender so that he can get possession or win a throw in or something. We have no players or a system in function right now that suits traditional wingers. All our forwards like the ball to be played to their feet.
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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by Fahim89 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:33 am

I am least bothered about this cause i strongly believe that with our full recruitment & scouting team in place & currently working overtime ther would be a specific type of players who are scouted & sort after. This players would only be once that fit the desired style BR wants to establish. Thus i totally leave it on BR's choice for the decisions to build his own team. Atleast this season.
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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by Art Morte on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:42 am

Maybe we understood the question differently.

What I'm asking is that if we want to play with a 4-man midfield - perhaps against tougher oppositions on the road - are we able to do that?

The quick answer is, I suppose, Henderson-Gerrard-Lucas-Downing, but that doesn't convince me. But I'm neither convinced that the 4-3-3 (or Sepi's 4-2-2-2 should that be introduced, which I doubt) will work for us in every game.

We're being linked with all sorts of attacking players - be they strikers, forwards or attacking midfielders - and I'm thinking it might be worth it to sign an RM/LM instead of one of those attacking options. After all it's no good having three forwards on the pitch and another three on the bench if your midfield is left chasing the ball for the 90 minutes. I'm sort of scared if Rodgers thinks that we don't need that much flesh and ability in midfield because we are going to press the opposition intensely high up the pitch with our three forwards. That's very hard to pull off successfully week-in week-out and against the better teams.

But I understand we haven't signed a ton of players yet and anything can happen, just something that I got to thinking about when looking at our squad and transfer news.
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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by RedOranje on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:48 am

Why would we randomly switch to a 4-4-2 for tougher away matches? We saw in the second half of the season that we can play a very effective counter-attacking game in a 4-2-3-1 type system that would not require direct or traditional wide players. There's also the possibility ot switching to 3 at the back if that type of system better suits our needs. Again though, traditional wide midfielders or wingers would not be required, as the fullbacks could provide the majority of the width if we wished to push forward.

4-4-2 just doesn't seem a likely formation to be seen at all next season, regardless of whether we have Downing or similar in the side.

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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by Red Alert on Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:59 am

Not at all. I'm more worried about our defence, honestly.

That is, if Skrtel is to be sold btw. Which is pretty much inevitable because of a knee jerk decision. drunken
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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by Art Morte on Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:38 am

@RedOranje wrote:Why would we randomly switch to a 4-4-2 for tougher away matches?  We saw in the second half of the season that we can play a very effective counter-attacking game in a 4-2-3-1 type system that would not require direct or traditional wide players.  There's also the possibility ot switching to 3 at the back if that type of system better suits our needs.  Again though, traditional wide midfielders or wingers would not be required, as the fullbacks could provide the majority of the width if we wished to push forward.

4-4-2 just doesn't seem a likely formation to be seen at all next season, regardless of whether we have Downing or similar in the side.

I didn't mean any certain type of formation, just generally speaking that if we want to set ourselves up more defensively and have more bodies in midfield, are we able to do that?
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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by stevieg8 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:34 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:Why would we randomly switch to a 4-4-2 for tougher away matches?  We saw in the second half of the season that we can play a very effective counter-attacking game in a 4-2-3-1 type system that would not require direct or traditional wide players.  There's also the possibility ot switching to 3 at the back if that type of system better suits our needs.  Again though, traditional wide midfielders or wingers would not be required, as the fullbacks could provide the majority of the width if we wished to push forward.

4-4-2 just doesn't seem a likely formation to be seen at all next season, regardless of whether we have Downing or similar in the side.

I didn't mean any certain type of formation, just generally speaking that if we want to set ourselves up more defensively and have more bodies in midfield, are we able to do that?

I think we are. If you're not just looking for a 4-4-2, there are lots of options, some of which you mentioned earlier. We have a variety of midfielders with different talents that we can mix up for different results and formations. Obviously Gerrard-Lucas is going to be the starting midfield combo for most games, but if BR identifies issues in one of the starting formations Red mentioned, we have Joe Allen and Jordan Henderson waiting to help add a body in the midfield and make the team more defensive. If we're looking to hold a game down or are trying to stop the bleeding when we're getting out classed in midfield, we can use Lucas-Allen, Lucas-Gerrard-Hendo, or bring Downing on for a member of the front 4. Or a combination of any of those. If we bring in Papa he'll become an option as a DM as well.

I personally like the idea that we'll be coming into all of our games next year with an attacking game plan. Obviously we need to adjust strategy depending on opposition, but I think each of the different plans and tweaks we make can still take the game to the opponents, at least to begin the game. We'll have enough options off the bench to change style.
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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by Art Morte on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:41 pm

@stevieg8 wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:Why would we randomly switch to a 4-4-2 for tougher away matches?  We saw in the second half of the season that we can play a very effective counter-attacking game in a 4-2-3-1 type system that would not require direct or traditional wide players.  There's also the possibility ot switching to 3 at the back if that type of system better suits our needs.  Again though, traditional wide midfielders or wingers would not be required, as the fullbacks could provide the majority of the width if we wished to push forward.

4-4-2 just doesn't seem a likely formation to be seen at all next season, regardless of whether we have Downing or similar in the side.

I didn't mean any certain type of formation, just generally speaking that if we want to set ourselves up more defensively and have more bodies in midfield, are we able to do that?

I think we are.  If you're not just looking for a 4-4-2, there are lots of options, some of which you mentioned earlier.  We have a variety of midfielders with different talents that we can mix up for different results and formations.  Obviously Gerrard-Lucas is going to be the starting midfield combo for most games, but if BR identifies issues in one of the starting formations Red mentioned, we have Joe Allen and Jordan Henderson waiting to help add a body in the midfield and make the team more defensive.  If we're looking to hold a game down or are trying to stop the bleeding when we're getting out classed in midfield, we can use Lucas-Allen, Lucas-Gerrard-Hendo, or bring Downing on for a member of the front 4.  Or a combination of any of those.  If we bring in Papa he'll become an option as a DM as well.

Yes, but this leads back to my original question that should we have a right or left-sided midfielder in the team? All those players, Downing apart, are central midfielders. Our wide options seem to be heavily tilted towards very attacking choices.

We beat only Tottenham last season out of the better teams and I'm just thinking that a bit more pure midfield ability might be a good addition. Those better teams will punish us either through possession or counter-attacks if our midfield can't put up a fight. Since our midfield options are pretty much all central ones, I got to thinking that adding a good RM or LM might be wiser than signing solely forward players in hope of more goals.

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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by Helmer on Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:59 pm

for evryone's dislike, I am sure, for the same idea of playing little conservatively we will keep downing in the next season. I guess with Mkhi signing, we will be even more effective on the counter when we are not able to dominate in the centre in the games like against arsenal.
We just need one solid CB signed in this window and I hope we can cope with that, when now we already have kolo. Honestly I am more worried about those draws 0-0, I have no clue what steps we will take to convert those draws in 3 points.

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Re: Are you at all worried...

Post by RedOranje on Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:44 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:for evryone's dislike, I am sure, for the same idea of playing little conservatively we will keep downing in the next season. I guess with Mkhi signing, we will be even more effective on the counter when we are not able to dominate in the centre in the games like against arsenal.
We just need one solid CB signed in this window and I hope we can cope with that, when now we already have kolo. Honestly I am more worried about those draws 0-0, I have no clue what steps we will take to convert those draws in 3 points.

Borini, Aspas, Luis Alberto (potentially), or Mkhitaryan if he's signed will provide extra goal threats both on the pitch or from the bench depending how Rodgers opts to utilized them. Borini obviously isn't a new signing but given his injuries last he'll be a lot like one for us.

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