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Re: Isco

Post by sportsczy on Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:56 pm

That's because Ronaldo at CF just doesn't work.  And Isco has been poor for Madrid recently... while Asensio has picked it up.  Forget Bale...  Asensio is ahead of Isco.

Whether it's Benzema or someone else, Ronaldo needs a CF.  Even though he plays far more central now, he still either doesn't want to do or just can't make the plays that a CF would.

Just to give some examples:
-  Holding up the ball
-  Making runs to clear defenders as opposed to expecting the ball

The way CR makes runs is using a CF to find open spaces for himself.  That's how he's been his whole career and he's not changing.

Other HUGE component is that Madrid don't play like Barca or Spain.  We just don't.  Small pocket passing and possession is not our game.  We're looking to get the ball and release it....  as fast as possible... going forward.  For players like Isco who like to hold the ball, he actually breaks the flow of our attacks.

In short, Isco needs a system that fits him and, at the moment, Madrid is not playing that system.  In fact, I highly doubt we ever adapt a system to Isco.  His best shot at Madrid is if Ronaldo leaves and we transition to a more slow build up and possession type game.

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Re: Isco

Post by sportsczy on Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:58 pm

And did you see the side Argentina put out there ffs? It was the B team. Strange lineup to say the least.

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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:22 am

@sportsczy wrote:That's because Ronaldo at CF just doesn't work.  And Isco has been poor for Madrid recently... while Asensio has picked it up.  Forget Bale...  Asensio is ahead of Isco.

Whether it's Benzema or someone else, Ronaldo needs a CF.  Even though he plays far more central now, he still either doesn't want to do or just can't make the plays that a CF would.

Just to give some examples:
-  Holding up the ball
-  Making runs to clear defenders as opposed to expecting the ball

The way CR makes runs is using a CF to find open spaces for himself.  That's how he's been his whole career and he's not changing.

Other HUGE component is that Madrid don't play like Barca or Spain.  We just don't.  Small pocket passing and possession is not our game.  We're looking to get the ball and release it....  as fast as possible... going forward.  For players like Isco who like to hold the ball, he actually breaks the flow of our attacks.

In short, Isco needs a system that fits him and, at the moment, Madrid is not playing that system.  In fact, I highly doubt we ever adapt a system to Isco.  His best shot at Madrid is if Ronaldo leaves and we transition to a more slow build up and possession type game.
this is the thing i keep flip flopping between what type of CF would be best with CR. I flirted with the idea of Griezmann a lot even if he is not a natural 9 but know i feel like an acyual n9 is better for CR, because he still likes to go left.

Which means spending to sign Lewandowski and replacing Bale by another forward.

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Re: Isco

Post by titosantill on Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:07 am

i think going forward, its high time we did away with the "what cf is good with cristiano" bit. the best players are those who can adapt. are we now only going to scout players who we think can play with cristiano? and btw what are we going to look for to scout such players; anyone who does a lot of 1-2s, anyone who doesn't dribble, anyone who doesn't average lots of goals?

cristiano has played with other forwards and done well. that being said, lol i just read sportczy's post, and i get what he means, what he means is playing isco in midfield and having cristiano and bale as strikers is crap, and he's right, as neither bale nor cr as nos 9s (even though i maintain cr can play that, but doesn't WANT to) he means cristiano wants to continue starting down the left, and with isco, in that slot thats not possible as it becomes 4 3 1 2

i went on a tangent at the start of this comment cos i thought we were once again debating that we shouldn't sign a 9, forgot it was an isco topic
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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:50 am

CR is 33, with a long contract, and there is visibly no plan for him to leave. he is still a world class player, decisive in big games, and he still looks seriously good.

So for the time being, you have no choice but to plan your team with him as a centrepiece. The model for strikers who allowed him to play his best football is Rooney, Tevez, higuain and Benzema. I think those are players who were very good playing outside of the traditional CF role, they could drop deep, move to the sides, and act as excellent passing outlets.

Ronaldo enjoys having the freedom to sometimes go center, and then moves to the left again, sometimes right.

So the argument of signing a CF this summer makes sense from that point of vue.

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Re: Isco

Post by sportsczy on Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:55 pm

I go back and forth with Griezmann too. When he plays with Giroud, he plays off of him as a focal point. When Mbappe plays central, he takes a more CF type role where me makes those clever runs to score.

THAT SAID, Griezmann is really good when he has a CF. I have this fear that Griezmann and Ronaldo would run into each other like all the time.... and then CR gets pissed off and Griezmann checks out.

I really don't see Griezmann being happy staying as a sidekick. It's not in his personality.

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Re: Isco

Post by FennecFox7 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:35 pm

I want to see Isco on the left in a 4-4-2. He's not a midfielder and I've said it before and I'll say it again. He's a winger or a forward with some midfield characteristics. He just lacks pace but so does benz. He would play very good off CR

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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:50 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I go back and forth with Griezmann too. When he plays with Giroud, he plays off of him as a focal point. When Mbappe plays central, he takes a more CF type role where me makes those clever runs to score.

THAT SAID, Griezmann is really good when he has a CF. I have this fear that Griezmann and Ronaldo would run into each other like all the time.... and then CR gets pissed off and Griezmann checks out.

I really don't see Griezmann being happy staying as a sidekick. It's not in his personality.
but then I remember the instances of Griezmann alone at Atletico and it did not go so well at the start of the season. So there is that...

And in cases where CR is not playing then we will completely lose that n9. Benzema is clearly not able to flip the switch and to become a primary option.

So you have to think about that too. I mean we could always sign. Number 9 like Lewandowski or Aguero or whoever, and replace Bale with Griezmann that would look good.

But I don't think Griezmann is a game changer as a wide forward. Would be like france at the start of the euros with him on the right, that did not go well

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Re: Isco

Post by sportsczy on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:51 pm

Yeah but that was because Atleti had scrubs next to Grizzy. Torres and Correa. He looks sensational next to Mbappe and Lemar on NT.

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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:56 pm

needs a bigger sample size, he looks good down the middle when Giroud is up top and he can play around him. There are more evidence that he is great with a CF next to him...

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Re: Isco

Post by titosantill on Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:33 am

i don't think griezmann even wants to join us, i doubt it. he likes united for sentimental reasons and obviously we keep hearing about the rumors to barcelona, which i don't know if they want him to replace dembele but whatever, not my business....i just don't see him coming to us at all, especially with the rivalry, they (atleti) would be happier to see him at barcelona than us, and he knows this. i don't think the move is even remotely happening, as in, i don't think flo is even thinking about griezmann as an option as of right now
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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 am

i dont think it's on the card as well, just speculating i guess

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Re: Isco

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