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Re: Isco

Post by sportsczy on Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:56 pm

That's because Ronaldo at CF just doesn't work.  And Isco has been poor for Madrid recently... while Asensio has picked it up.  Forget Bale...  Asensio is ahead of Isco.

Whether it's Benzema or someone else, Ronaldo needs a CF.  Even though he plays far more central now, he still either doesn't want to do or just can't make the plays that a CF would.

Just to give some examples:
-  Holding up the ball
-  Making runs to clear defenders as opposed to expecting the ball

The way CR makes runs is using a CF to find open spaces for himself.  That's how he's been his whole career and he's not changing.

Other HUGE component is that Madrid don't play like Barca or Spain.  We just don't.  Small pocket passing and possession is not our game.  We're looking to get the ball and release it....  as fast as possible... going forward.  For players like Isco who like to hold the ball, he actually breaks the flow of our attacks.

In short, Isco needs a system that fits him and, at the moment, Madrid is not playing that system.  In fact, I highly doubt we ever adapt a system to Isco.  His best shot at Madrid is if Ronaldo leaves and we transition to a more slow build up and possession type game.

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Re: Isco

Post by sportsczy on Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:58 pm

And did you see the side Argentina put out there ffs? It was the B team. Strange lineup to say the least.

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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:22 am

@sportsczy wrote:That's because Ronaldo at CF just doesn't work.  And Isco has been poor for Madrid recently... while Asensio has picked it up.  Forget Bale...  Asensio is ahead of Isco.

Whether it's Benzema or someone else, Ronaldo needs a CF.  Even though he plays far more central now, he still either doesn't want to do or just can't make the plays that a CF would.

Just to give some examples:
-  Holding up the ball
-  Making runs to clear defenders as opposed to expecting the ball

The way CR makes runs is using a CF to find open spaces for himself.  That's how he's been his whole career and he's not changing.

Other HUGE component is that Madrid don't play like Barca or Spain.  We just don't.  Small pocket passing and possession is not our game.  We're looking to get the ball and release it....  as fast as possible... going forward.  For players like Isco who like to hold the ball, he actually breaks the flow of our attacks.

In short, Isco needs a system that fits him and, at the moment, Madrid is not playing that system.  In fact, I highly doubt we ever adapt a system to Isco.  His best shot at Madrid is if Ronaldo leaves and we transition to a more slow build up and possession type game.
this is the thing i keep flip flopping between what type of CF would be best with CR. I flirted with the idea of Griezmann a lot even if he is not a natural 9 but know i feel like an acyual n9 is better for CR, because he still likes to go left.

Which means spending to sign Lewandowski and replacing Bale by another forward.

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Re: Isco

Post by titosantill on Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:07 am

i think going forward, its high time we did away with the "what cf is good with cristiano" bit. the best players are those who can adapt. are we now only going to scout players who we think can play with cristiano? and btw what are we going to look for to scout such players; anyone who does a lot of 1-2s, anyone who doesn't dribble, anyone who doesn't average lots of goals?

cristiano has played with other forwards and done well. that being said, lol i just read sportczy's post, and i get what he means, what he means is playing isco in midfield and having cristiano and bale as strikers is crap, and he's right, as neither bale nor cr as nos 9s (even though i maintain cr can play that, but doesn't WANT to) he means cristiano wants to continue starting down the left, and with isco, in that slot thats not possible as it becomes 4 3 1 2

i went on a tangent at the start of this comment cos i thought we were once again debating that we shouldn't sign a 9, forgot it was an isco topic
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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:50 am

CR is 33, with a long contract, and there is visibly no plan for him to leave. he is still a world class player, decisive in big games, and he still looks seriously good.

So for the time being, you have no choice but to plan your team with him as a centrepiece. The model for strikers who allowed him to play his best football is Rooney, Tevez, higuain and Benzema. I think those are players who were very good playing outside of the traditional CF role, they could drop deep, move to the sides, and act as excellent passing outlets.

Ronaldo enjoys having the freedom to sometimes go center, and then moves to the left again, sometimes right.

So the argument of signing a CF this summer makes sense from that point of vue.

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Re: Isco

Post by sportsczy on Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:55 pm

I go back and forth with Griezmann too. When he plays with Giroud, he plays off of him as a focal point. When Mbappe plays central, he takes a more CF type role where me makes those clever runs to score.

THAT SAID, Griezmann is really good when he has a CF. I have this fear that Griezmann and Ronaldo would run into each other like all the time.... and then CR gets pissed off and Griezmann checks out.

I really don't see Griezmann being happy staying as a sidekick. It's not in his personality.

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Re: Isco

Post by FennecFox7 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:35 pm

I want to see Isco on the left in a 4-4-2. He's not a midfielder and I've said it before and I'll say it again. He's a winger or a forward with some midfield characteristics. He just lacks pace but so does benz. He would play very good off CR

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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:50 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I go back and forth with Griezmann too. When he plays with Giroud, he plays off of him as a focal point. When Mbappe plays central, he takes a more CF type role where me makes those clever runs to score.

THAT SAID, Griezmann is really good when he has a CF. I have this fear that Griezmann and Ronaldo would run into each other like all the time.... and then CR gets pissed off and Griezmann checks out.

I really don't see Griezmann being happy staying as a sidekick. It's not in his personality.
but then I remember the instances of Griezmann alone at Atletico and it did not go so well at the start of the season. So there is that...

And in cases where CR is not playing then we will completely lose that n9. Benzema is clearly not able to flip the switch and to become a primary option.

So you have to think about that too. I mean we could always sign. Number 9 like Lewandowski or Aguero or whoever, and replace Bale with Griezmann that would look good.

But I don't think Griezmann is a game changer as a wide forward. Would be like france at the start of the euros with him on the right, that did not go well

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Re: Isco

Post by sportsczy on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:51 pm

Yeah but that was because Atleti had scrubs next to Grizzy. Torres and Correa. He looks sensational next to Mbappe and Lemar on NT.

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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:56 pm

needs a bigger sample size, he looks good down the middle when Giroud is up top and he can play around him. There are more evidence that he is great with a CF next to him...

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Re: Isco

Post by titosantill on Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:33 am

i don't think griezmann even wants to join us, i doubt it. he likes united for sentimental reasons and obviously we keep hearing about the rumors to barcelona, which i don't know if they want him to replace dembele but whatever, not my business....i just don't see him coming to us at all, especially with the rivalry, they (atleti) would be happier to see him at barcelona than us, and he knows this. i don't think the move is even remotely happening, as in, i don't think flo is even thinking about griezmann as an option as of right now
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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 am

i dont think it's on the card as well, just speculating i guess

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Re: Isco

Post by Cyborg on Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:07 am

Seems like Solari is disciplining Isco.

From the comments, it seems like him being left out of the champions league squad was a reprimand for something.


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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:26 am

Isco was great at the start of the season and he was rushed back from his surgery, and he has been poor since. I don't know why Solari is making a point not to play him but there is a fair criticism that he doesn't fit as a starter in this Madrid team long term and should look elsewhere. He did great for club.

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Re: Isco

Post by Freeza on Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:34 am

It took me months to get back after I had the same surgery. He rushed it badly.

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Re: Isco

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:46 am

Took me a few weeks as well. Guy came back from it after like 2 weeks, insane

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Re: Isco

Post by Freeza on Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:14 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Took me a few weeks as well. Guy came back from it after like 2 weeks, insane


Weeks hmm

Mine was probably more severe then. Not best comparison. I had to re-learn to walk for the first week.

I have no idea how you can be back to a professional athlete level after a few weeks. Seems like a total mishandling, yet again, from the medical staff. Should never have been cleared.

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Re: Isco

Post by Adit on Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:13 am

It is mind blowing that he was rushed back after operation in just 2 weeks. It will take him at least 2 months to gain match fitness.

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Re: Isco

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:04 am

COPE reporting that Isco was dropped because he showed Solari a lack of respect.

His recovery was definitely rushed, but I don't think that is what happened here. He hasn't been playing well and really needed to be dropped, injury or not.
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Re: Isco

Post by Perucho21 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:53 am

It's a shame that both Isco and Asensio were thought to be good enough to play on the left but it hasnt worked that way, to the point V-Jr has looked better. Vasquez on the right and Bale on the left has been doing ok but everyone knows Vasquez is not starting material and Bale's limited abilities.

If the club wishes to buy a top class player (i.e Hazard) and having V-Jr as his backup, and sell Isco and Asensio, I'll be allright with that.

Also, I wish Asensio could get a shot at playing RW. Maybe his lack of a right foot makes that difficult for him

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Re: Isco

Post by Mamad on Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:24 pm

Talent is there. i like his style of play. in form Isco is world class.

but if the decision is cuz of his behavior i'm all with Solari. there is no place for stupid behavior in the team.

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Re: Isco

Post by Thimmy on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:16 pm

It's not that surprising that he's being benched. Isco's form has been inconsistent since the season started, and he's not one of those players on the team that feature in every game regardless of form.
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Re: Isco

Post by chad4401 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:21 pm

Isco has to be the most overrated player to ever play for this club, so rushing him back from surgery is the excuse now? If he was feeling discomfort and couldn't play he would say so, he's been fit cut the shit, I have seen other certain player rush back from real injuries that never stopped you guys from treating them like crap regardless, isco game unfit, fit, on form or off form all look the same slow and no vision, with dribbling=good game.

What about all the other seasons where he is "always great" then hit the bench the team play 10x better.

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Re: Isco

Post by sportsczy on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:39 pm

Maybe... just maybe... Solari needed a scapegoat with some pedigree to stamp his authority on the team. The one with the least impact internally and on the pitch would be Isco. He checks off all the boxes:

- Spanish
- Popular
- Big reputation
- Seen as underperforming

BUT, unlike our other veterans:

- Not a regular and we have options to cover for him
- Isn't going to go crazy in the media and in the locker room as he's generally an even-headed nice guy
- Flo isn't going to fire you over this

Just a real convenient guy to go after. Reason I say this is that others are more deserving of criticism than Isco.

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Re: Isco

Post by Thimmy on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:51 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Maybe... just maybe... Solari needed a scapegoat with some pedigree to stamp his authority on the team. The one with the least impact internally and on the pitch would be Isco. He checks off all the boxes:

- Spanish
- Popular
- Big reputation
- Seen as underperforming

BUT, unlike our other veterans:

- Not a regular and we have options to cover for him
- Isn't going to go crazy in the media and in the locker room as he's generally an even-headed nice guy
- Flo isn't going to fire you over this

Just a real convenient guy to go after. Reason I say this is that others are more deserving of criticism than Isco.


I don't know if Solari needed a scapegoat already, but Isco is highly disposable compared to the rest of the "veteran" players on the team. No one's holding the coach back from benching him, if he doesn't play well in a couple of matches/training.
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Re: Isco

Post by chad4401 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:53 pm

Marca made like 50 articles already cooking up excuses for isco, they clearly want to shit on Solari but can't yet and they sure as hell gonna continue to harass him in every presser with shitty isco questions disgusting bunch as usual, so quick to write off modric as a bust after a month, but six seasons of campaigning for isco to get some minutes lmao amusing bunch.

if isco was actually really good he would be a starter years ago, he has been giving chances at the expense of every player on the team bar CR by every manager, better players got sold off, got the Spanish nt coach and here we are back to square 1 "why isn't isco playing?", cause he is freaking average.

The only reason fans and media persist with feigning ignorance is because everyone dubbed him the best player and most talented before he kicked a ball for rm, as usual rm fans/media are know it alls that love to push narratives regardless what going on the pitch.

As far as I'm concerned if isco was that good he would have left the club long ago and established himself else where, but he doesn't want that responsibility or pressure. he loves the fake praise and applause with no criticism, cause benzema will get blamed a billion times before anyone even look at isco, asensio comments are proof of this mentality is in squad especially in the Spanish ones, that why they never looked hassled to create chances for their CF, just fuck around in midfield all game won't improve as players that sounds like karma to me.

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Re: Isco

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