Do you believe in Wenger?

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will wenger make us a title challenging side this season?

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47% 47% 
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Total Votes : 32

Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Chumlum on Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:09 pm

Saw this on Twitter, thought I'd share it.

Ricky Gee ‏@GeezyPeas 5m

Yeah, yeah, let Wenger go & who can we get? Manchester United, the biggest club in the world got David Moyes. Who are we going to get?

Name all the managers in the world, if they're that great & available, why didn't Manchester United get them? Please tell me.

People call me deluded because I love Wenger, which I do but if you think we can get better right now, you need more help than I do.
For me, this summer window has been badly mismanaged, by the club. There might be peripheral mitigating circumstances - e.g., maybe Pere Guardiola inadvertently misled Arsenal about Suarez's clause, maybe Gustavo really truly was set upon staying in Germany and being a key player, etc. But none of these things add up to an excuse. As a person who is generally very supportive of Wenger, I can hold up my hands and admit when he's messed up.

And I think this summer he's messed up. Maybe there will be some salvaging in the next two weeks, but when compared to what the club could have done, and should have done ... it will be small potatoes.

That all said, I'm still not really comfortable for these kneejerk calls for Wenger's head. And I reprinted the Ricky Gee quotes above because I really don't think there are many managers who will be able to come into Arsenal (and, on the flipside, that Arsenal could entice) and do a better job than Wenger right now. We all love Jurgen Klopp, yes, but it's a bit arrogant to just assume that if Wenger leaves Arsenal by next summer, and Arsenal are floundering, Kloppo will leave his project at Dortmund & come running. So aside from Klopp ... who?

A few years back, there were vocal calls for the likes of Martin mother-effin O'Neill to replace Wenger.

Think about that for a second.

I'm wary of just bashing Wenger and thinking that if he goes, the club will automatically improve. At the same time, I totally agree with the negative voices that changes and improvements must be made.

Over in the general thread some people were advocating a Director of Football, something along those lines. Just an open question. What do you all think of this?

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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by 6unner on Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:20 pm

Jupp Heynckes might be convinced.

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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Jay29 on Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:41 pm

Getting rid of Wenger now would represent a huge upheaval and it'd only cause problems in the short-term. You can't remove a guy who's been manager for nearly two decades and expect everything will just be smooth sailing afterwards. It's precisely for this reason that United went for a manager who had similar attributes to Ferguson, even if he's no where near as good (not like there's any shame in being second best to the best manager of all time).

A more realistic question would be whether we should offer him a contract extension or not. If we show signs of progressing this year then we could offer him an extension. In that scenario, I'd also look at bringing in someone to help him in the transfer market because alone he's proving to not be very effective for whatever reason. If we struggle to get into the top four again then you've got to ask whether he's doing the club more harm than good since it'd be a situation that he could have avoided.

If that situation came to pass, people will ask "who can we get who's better?", but think about this: Arsene Wenger himself wasn't considered a top manager when he arrived at Arsenal. Pep Guardiola wasn't considered a top manager when he arrived at Barcelona. Jurgen Klopp wasn't considered a top manager when he arrived at Dortmund. But the three of them had qualities that their clubs wanted and thought they could build success on.

It's not all about who's a better manager than Wenger, but rather who's the best suited to replace him. Jose Mourinho could be considered the better manager but his short-term planning and pragmatic teams aren't suited to Arsenal. Their philosophies don't match at all.

Ultimately, I don't feel that "there's no one who's better" is a viable excuse for keeping hold of a manager who is becoming increasingly stagnant. If the manager has the power and the will to move the club forward, but doesn't, then you have to question whether he's still suited to be manager, regardless of his past successes or current qualities.
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Chumlum on Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:52 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:Ultimately, I don't feel that "there's no one who's better" is a viable excuse for keeping hold of a manager who is becoming increasingly stagnant.
I do agree on that point - I guess I posed the question that way more a response to kneejerk calls for Wenger to leave, and be replaced by Manager X. And it seems like Manager X is almost always Klopp.

Also agree with your point about unknown managers. But if Arsenal follow up Wenger's tenure with a non-marquee manager, the meltdowns and pre-judgments will be epic. [Exception: if that manager untested at the top were to be a fan favorite, maybe a former player like Bergkamp.] If only more fans had your keep calm approach, Jay ...
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Jay29 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:11 am

Fans are fickle, though. A few good results and that non-marquee manager is a legend in the making and his appointment a master stroke. Just like how when that unknown player is suddenly a great one when he shows he's actually good in a few games.

When the time comes to replace Wenger, the club just has to appoint who they think is the right man to take the club forward and forget about popularity and fame.
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Jay29 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:20 am

Good article on just how Wenger became so powerful within Arsenal:

http://angryofislington.com/2013/08/18/how-has-arsene-ended-up-with-all-this-power/
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by SUPERCARTTS on Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:44 pm

Rijkaard or Jupp will suffice. Lets not complicate the matter further. Sack the fool, before he ruins this club and all his good work.
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by 1991 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:04 pm

Haven't since 2008/2009, i have predicted every summer correctly while other Arsenal fans stayed in denial like an abused wife. Anyone still defending him is not an Arsenal fan.

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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by abirking on Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:05 pm

Even if we sign one world-class and three good players, we wont challenge for the title. Reasons:
1. Mourinho is tactically a better manager and has a good squad.
2. Pellegrini has probably the best squad in the EPL, and once he gets it right Man city will be one of the Top-dogs.
3. Even though moyes is new, he has quality players in RVP and co, plus the Manu squad is well gelled.

Even fourth will be tough as both liverpool and tottenham have better sqauds then us, and each team have a talismatic match-winner (although liverpool's one is not available for six matches and has a grudge).

Even after all this, wenger will not be ousted because there is no manager in Europe who could replace him at this moment, and Kroenke likes him. I think that if we miss out on the champions league, then and only then there is a chance his contract will not be renewed.

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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Chumlum on Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:07 pm

@1991 wrote:Haven't since 2008/2009, i have predicted every summer correctly while other Arsenal fans stayed in denial like an abused wife. Anyone still defending him is not an Arsenal fan.
You predicted Cazorla coming in? Not bad!
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by djfawnz on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:27 pm

he meant of not buying players and doing panic buys
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Chumlum on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:44 pm

@djfawnz wrote:he meant of not buying players and doing panic buys
Do you think?
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by vivabarca38 on Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:00 pm

One question for most of the Arsenal fans who know more than me,does Wenger know what he's doing?I mean he said something along the lines of 'I'll only bid for players who I think will improve the team'
And he bid for only a few players.Then Arsenal lose 1 match and are Arsenal are linked with a ton more players and making alot of bids which make him see like he has no idea what to do.

Is that the case?
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Wilson37 on Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:03 pm

@vivabarca38 wrote:One question for most of the Arsenal fans who know more than me,does Wenger know what he's doing?I mean he said something along the lines of 'I'll only bid for players who I think will improve the team'
And he bid for only a few players.Then Arsenal lose 1 match and are Arsenal are linked with a ton more players and making alot of bids which make him see like he has no idea what to do.

Is that the case?
sadly this seems correct.. we have done this many a time..
but this time the panic buying looks more obvious after sleeping for last 3 months.. :facepalm:

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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by 1991 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:23 pm

Laughing 16 people actually think this is a title winning side. Must be trolls.

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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Raptorgunner on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:27 pm

@1991 wrote:Laughing 16 people actually think this is a title winning side. Must be trolls.
Well not this squad, if we had the add the players we were link to all summer. 3 quality players and we can compete with the rest of EPL.
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Winger or CB.

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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by furiouswindbottom on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:29 pm

Just save the money for Klopp in January.

Can't get him?

He's on about 1.5m quid per year.

Offer him 8m and see what happens.

Offer another 2m for each trophy.

Do you think he would say 'no' to a five year deal?

Feel bad saying this as I've always been on Wenger's side...but he had 3 months and did nothing. Now it's gonna be another trolley dash.

Best not bother and to try and get Klopp. Managers can move anytime remember.

Feel bad saying it(especially with this game coming up) but Wenger was on his final warning with me after giving RVP to Utd.

No new players, seeing Spuds buy top players WE SHOULD"VE GONE FOR is the final straw.
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by Raptorgunner on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:37 pm

Offer any coach in the world what Wenger is earning and they will do back-flips and sign for Arsenal.Laughing 

The problem will not end there if Wenger goes Ivan the Donkey must go also.

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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by SUPERCARTTS on Mon May 01, 2017 7:06 pm

@SUPERCARTTS wrote:Rijkaard or Jupp will suffice. Lets not complicate the matter further. Sack the fool, before he ruins this club and all his good work.


Can we all agree that almost 4 years on, from my post, Wenger has at the very least ruined the second part of his Arsenal tenure and is very close to ruining his entire legacy?
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by RealGunner on Mon May 01, 2017 7:06 pm

Yes

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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by urbaNRoots on Mon May 01, 2017 7:20 pm

I don't trust him with another transfer window let alone managing our team.
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

Post by SUPERCARTTS on Mon May 01, 2017 7:32 pm

ANd to think there's a high probability that the board have offered this man another 2 years. Negligence
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Re: Do you believe in Wenger?

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