Winter Window || Jan 2014

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Don't call me James on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:48 pm

Art is a true premface :bow:

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Helmer on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:50 pm

lol

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Art Morte on Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:00 pm

McAgger wrote:Art is a true premface :bow:
Guilty as charged Surprised

But even then, Mulumbu is seriously good in his role.
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by RedOranje on Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:13 pm

So is M'Vila, to be fair... he's just a bit of a twat off the pitch by all accounts.


With Bradley not getting much of a look in as a starter at Roma I'd push the boat out to get him. While McLewis is fairly adamant (and probably correct) in saying that Bradley won't be available I'd still love for us to try. The owners' business connections and clubs' friendly dealings in the past could work in our favour and Bradley is EXACTLY the type of player that I think could ensure our midfield doesn't get overrun in matches.

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Red Alert on Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:53 am

@RedOranje wrote:So is M'Vila, to be fair... he's just a bit of a twat off the pitch by all accounts.


With Bradley not getting much of a look in as a starter at Roma I'd push the boat out to get him.  While McLewis is fairly adamant (and probably correct) in saying that Bradley won't be available I'd still love for us to try.  The owners' business connections and clubs' friendly dealings in the past could work in our favour and Bradley is EXACTLY the type of player that I think could ensure our midfield doesn't get overrun in matches.
Don't think he's needed to be honest.

We already have an engine in Henderson.

If we don't want to get overrun (away from home) and it pains me to say it, but we simply have to drop Gerrard out of the starting XI. And continuing to stop playing with 3 at the back would also help. I can't recall us being overrun in midfield at home. Maybe against Soton, but no one performed that day and we had 4 central defenders on the pitch with Aspas (or Mose?)... as the number 10 and we couldn't play our game. They only really scored from a set piece though. (Although Mig made a triple save at one point.)  

We need someone to link the midfield from attack to defence and could drop deep to help out the midfield. From watching Mkhitaryan at Dortmund, he would of been the perfect signing. Eriksen would of been good. Instead we thought Coutinho could play there and it's obviously not worked out.
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by RedOranje on Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:54 pm

I think you're wrong on two counts:

1) Henderson HAS an engine and great stamina but he IS NOT our engine. He'll run for days and he's great at pressing and harrying and moving the ball (better than he's given credit for often) but he's not able to take lift the team when it's struggling or take a game in which we're struggling onto his shoulders... it's just not in his nature to be so aggressive and demonstrative. He's a fantastic player that I quite like and feel is often underrated by many, but he's not really a leader and he's not at his best when making tackles and playing in front of the defense. Bradley is all of the things Henderson isn't and many of the things Henderson is. They could easily play in the same midfield and work very well together, as Bradley and Mix Diskerud have in the US midfield when they've had the chance.

2) You're suggesting a CAM could help link the midfield to defense? That's seriously stretching... you also suggest we need someone to link midfield to attack, which makes more sense in the discussion of Coutinho. However, this isn't really an issue that's down to our CAM options at the moment as it is down to our midfielders getting pushed back as the defense drops deep and opponents overwhelm our midfielders via energy and numbers. Lucas hasn't been at his convincing best (some inconsistencies and generally just not found that top level he had before injury) while Gerrard for all his continued outstanding qualities just doesn't have the dynamism he once did. Henderson has the engine but not the explosiveness and power while Allen, should he find his zone, is a passer not an all-action player. What we need is a tactically intelligent and versatile player who can provide some power, bite, and LEADERSHIP in those central areas... someone who has the energy and power to snap into defensive tackles and break up play but can also push forward and distribute if the defense and midfield does begin to drop deep again. Most importantly, we need a midfielder who can lift his teammates through energy, determination, and force of will... Bradley has shown he has all of this qualities.


Really though, it's all a moot point as he will almost certainly not be available in the near future anyway and even if he is I doubt the club will consider him.

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by iftikhar on Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:07 pm

'Power, bite and Leadership in those central areas'.

Well, for leadership we may still bank on Gerrard for this season at least. But he will not be around all the time. In fact, if we had such a player Gerrard might have been rested for few games already. Yes, we don't have a leader on the field.

As for power and bite, shall we prefer an attacking player! I can't really name one right now. But such a player will mean the opposing MF and DF will be tentetive in pushing forward (in addition to the creative and scoring threat the player provide).

But I would prefer a DM or like that sort. Keane and Dunga springs to mind. He will intimidate the opponent in pushing forward and break their moves.

Who can that be!!!
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Red Alert on Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:09 am

@RedOranje wrote:I think you're wrong on two counts:

1) Henderson HAS an engine and great stamina but he IS NOT our engine.  He'll run for days and he's great at pressing and harrying and moving the ball (better than he's given credit for often) but he's not able to take lift the team when it's struggling or take a game in which we're struggling onto his shoulders... it's just not in his nature to be so aggressive and demonstrative.  He's a fantastic player that I quite like and feel is often underrated by many, but he's not really a leader and he's not at his best when making tackles and playing in front of the defense.  Bradley is all of the things Henderson isn't and many of the things Henderson is.  They could easily play in the same midfield and work very well together, as Bradley and Mix Diskerud have in the US midfield when they've had the chance.

2) You're suggesting a CAM could help link the midfield to defense?  That's seriously stretching... you also suggest we need someone to link midfield to attack, which makes more sense in the discussion of Coutinho.  However, this isn't really an issue that's down to our CAM options at the moment as it is down to our midfielders getting pushed back as the defense drops deep and opponents overwhelm our midfielders via energy and numbers.  Lucas hasn't been at his convincing best (some inconsistencies and generally just not found that top level he had before injury) while Gerrard for all his continued outstanding qualities just doesn't have the dynamism he once did.  Henderson has the engine but not the explosiveness and power while Allen, should he find his zone, is a passer not an all-action player.  What we need is a tactically intelligent and versatile player who can provide some power, bite, and LEADERSHIP in those central areas... someone who has the energy and power to snap into defensive tackles and break up play but can also push forward and distribute if the defense and midfield does begin to drop deep again.  Most importantly, we need a midfielder who can lift his teammates through energy, determination, and force of will... Bradley has shown he has all of this qualities.


Really though, it's all a moot point as he will almost certainly not be available in the near future anyway and even if he is I doubt the club will consider him.  
I could be wrong here, but isn't Bradley a defensive midfielder? So wouldn't his competition be Lucas and/or Gerrard? I personally see Henderson as a squad player in the future. Don't get me wrong, I rate him. I just don't see what he can offer to our midfield that other people can't. The reason I compared Henderson to Bradley as from what I've seen from Bradley, they're similar types of players. You've obviously seen much more of Bradley so I'll have to take your word if they're two different types of players.

No, I don't want a CAM to link the defence to attack. I expect the midfield THREE to link the whole team together. We simply haven't done that enough this season. Lucas and Gerrard already link the defence to midfield / fullbacks, but they're not getting the ball forward enough. This is why I see an attacking midfielder / playmaker / second striker (that can drop back deeper and help the midfield defend when we're not in possession so we don't get overrun) as the problem in the squad. Coutinho can't play that CAM role. He's not good enough to play that role just yet. We can play him there in patches / later on in the season when the games open up but he can't do it yet. He's A LOT more effective on the left wing cutting in when he has the space and momentum to get comfortable with the ball. He gets closed down way too quick when played in the centre and can't get his game going.

Lucas and Gerrard ARE leaders in that position though. The main problem with their performances this season (and to majority of the players in the starting XI) is that Rodgers has been experimenting way too much with the squad. A midfield 2 never really works unless you're Manchester United and you have the mental edge over the teams around you leading on to you bullying the opposition however you see fit. Teams don't fear us, so exploit our 2 man midfield (nearly everyone in the league plays with 3 midfielders). Teams have dominated United this season (and have done well to get a positive result) because teams aren't scared of Moyes, and actually look to play football rather than to bend over and give them 3 points. Furthermore, playing with a 2 man midfield, to put an extra defender (we were playing with 3 at the back earlier) means you lose a player forward meaning we can't hold onto the ball in key areas of the pitch. Suarez and Sturridge as a duo made that 3412 look "successful", but most of the players performances during that 3412 experiment were very poor; we can't play as a counter-attacking side consistently. Playing with a 2 man midfield isn't the Liverpool way. We need a number 10, a Mkhitaryan type, and you'll see our midfield would be solid enough. Let's not forget we had the same midfield last season and dominated majority of the teams because we were playing our game. Our midfield isn't just doing enough going forward this season. But
I
see that as Rodgers tweaking the formation every second game. 50% of our goals conceded have been down to being poor at defending set pieces. Another 25% have been to when we were playing 3412 and teams exploited the 2 man midfield / the space behind the full backs. I'm certain if we go back to playing our game (with the acquisition of a number 10) we can even go on to title challenge. We have an edge over other teams, and that's because Rodgers already has a year behind his players and know how they play.

We have no power and bite in the midfield because Henderson or Allen can't play in an attacking position. You've also said it yourself, our midfield doesn't have protection from the players around it (we're being beaten by numbers) and that's because we haven't played with 3 in the middle enough.

Even if it's a moot point, and he's not available, it's good to discuss the different types of views on which playing style / types of players we need to succeed. :coffee:
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Fahim89 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:28 pm

Now is there any player we have been seriously linked to for January??
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by RedOranje on Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:58 pm

No, Bradley is a CM who can play very well as a CDM.

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Robespierre on Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:53 pm

Bradley is the typical  player who is good in a medium-small team but in a important club he can be only a substitute player...this is his dimension...
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by RedOranje on Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:59 pm

Can't say I agree with that at all.

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Arquitescu on Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:29 pm

Except Bradley would start in Chelsea's midfield, United, Liverpool. Tottenham, City ahead of underwhelming Fernandinho, Inter, Dortmund arguably ahead of Bender, Schalke, and starts for a performing Roma alongside De Rossi and Pjanic.

Rather ignorant to point of his dimension in such fashion given his performances have been excellent for 3 years now.

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Art Morte on Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:50 pm

Well, we need a CM who can bring something different compared to the rather homogenous trio of Lucas, Henderson and Allen (now, I'm not saying they're the same, but we could do with something more inspiring) or then a direct rival to Gerrard. Not going to try to appear more knowledgeable than I am, so just saying that I hope we get someone who fits the bill.
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Robespierre on Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:07 pm

@Arquitescu wrote:Except Bradley would start in Chelsea's midfield, United, Liverpool. Tottenham, City ahead of underwhelming Fernandinho, Inter, Dortmund arguably ahead of Bender, Schalke, and starts for a performing Roma alongside De Rossi and Pjanic.

Rather ignorant to point of his dimension in such fashion given his performances have been excellent for 3 years now.
Excellent? exaggerated
but he can be USEFUL, I don't deny it

More of less I compare him to " Sixth man of basket"

@RedOranje wrote:Can't say I agree with that at all.
opinions,of course, I follow him since he played with Chievo because I'm Italian... I have had him to Fantasy Team 2 years.. honestly I do not think he would shift the balance and for me Liverpool has already many average players in midfield ( Ah I have sympathy for Liverpool after CL 2005 , let's be clear) .. it needs only to make the leap ( fill with regular players doesn't make sense imo)
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by RedOranje on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:17 am

So we're judging a player who's contribution would be largely defensive and mental by his fantasy scores then?

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Robespierre on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:35 am

bah...
Okay, alright free to think Bradley can change the Liverpool midfield, but I don't know even if he is better than current Liverpool midfielders .... my humble opinion is Liverpool needs upgrade in midfield as it has done for defence side ( Mignolet,Sakho) or attack (Coutinho,Sturridge for Downing,Carroll..)
so I would spend differently. Simply.
on the other hand I am talking about a  reserve of AS Roma   (6th last year in Serie A)  not Real Madrid or Barcellona...
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Red Alert on Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:53 am

@RedOranje wrote:No, Bradley is a CM who can play very well as a CDM.
Then I personally don't think we need him.

We need a Hamsik type. Again, personal opinion. Someone to play in front of the midfield duo. We already have Henderson to give us that run in midfield if needed.

@Arquitescu wrote:Except Bradley would start in Chelsea's midfield, United, Liverpool. Tottenham, City ahead of underwhelming Fernandinho, Inter, Dortmund arguably ahead of Bender, Schalke, and starts for a performing Roma alongside De Rossi and Pjanic.

Rather ignorant to point of his dimension in such fashion given his performances have been excellent for 3 years now.
I don't think he would get into Chelsea's midfield to be honest. Reading RedO's post about Bradley, he sounds like a very similar type of player in Ramires.
Anyone would get into United's midfield, really.
Personally don't think he would be a first team player if he was at Liverpool, either. Not as a centre mid / defensive midfielder.
Tottenham have Paulinho, and Sandro as a DM so won't start there.
No chance of him playing infront of Fernandinho at City, I think he's been one of the most underrated players in the league thus far. He was carrying Yaya defensively at the start of the season and has slowly adjusted to life in England.
I don't watch a lot of Inter, so can't say with them. Dortmund have one of the best midfields in the world, would Bradley really be first team there?
Haven't seen a lot of Schalke either so no comment.
Every time I've seen Roma this season, Bradley has played coming off of the bench. I'm not too sure if that's down to him coming back from an injury, or if he's just been dropped because of Strootman but my point is he's not exactly 'starting' for them.

Think what Robespierre is trying to say, is that we should go for a tier above. Someone that would drastically improve the starting XI rather than being a squad player in it. Which I think is a fair thing to say.
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Red Alert on Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:31 am

Liverpool ready to make January transfer move for Chelsea defender Ryan Bertrand.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10479350/Liverpool-ready-to-make-January-transfer-move-for-Chelsea-defender-Ryan-Bertrand.html

Damn.
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Red Alert on Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:04 am

Kevin Mendez.

The next big thing in Uruguay according to Uruguayan people and Luis Suarez himself.

Barcelona and Ath. Madrid interested in his services, but agent Luis can snap him up. Proud

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Helmer on Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:27 pm

If he is a street biatch like Suarez, sign him pls :coffee:

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by BeautifulGame on Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:17 am

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/28/liverpool-martin-montoya-barcelona

First links with Bertrand and now Montaya.Seems like Rodgers desperately want to sign a Left back in the Jan window itself

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:04 am

Bertrand :bow:
Champions League winner :bow:
Owned Robben :bow:

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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Fahim89 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:17 am

The Montoya rumors seems to be the 1st solid rumors of the window!
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:31 am

And why will Barcelona sell Montoya? He's basically a right-back used on the left because of Alba's absence. If they sell him, they'll be left with Adriano, Alba and Alves as their full-back options. Don't see it happening unless we pay extravagant money to acquire him.. and we shouldn't.

PS: Just found out his contract expires next summer.
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

Post by Fahim89 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:38 am

@ExtremistEnigma wrote:And why will Barcelona sell Montoya? He's basically a right-back used on the left because of Alba's absence. If they sell him, they'll be left with Adriano, Alba and Alves as their full-back options. Don't see it happening unless we pay extravagant money to acquire him.. and we shouldn't.

PS: Just found out his contract expires next summer.
Well rumors are that Renewal seems unlikely & we are willing to make a bid in January . . so who knows!
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Re: Winter Window || Jan 2014

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