El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Le Samourai on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:04 pm

He plays better when we are chasing the game, or any time he sees the ball more than once every 25 minutes really.

Carlo it seems wanted to lock it down in the first and push toward the end, and I think he timed it well, individual lapses from Khedira and Lopez were unlucky. Hitting the post was unlucky, not getting the penalty was unlucky.

I genuinely thought Ramos was going to be a centre back, in my mind 3 at the back is really a worthwhile experiment. But in the middle, he's a better passer than Khedira and that showed. Still, playing him as a floating DM with none to track was a mistake. The minute Messi veered right he should have slotted in behind Marcelo.

I thought we played a well paced game though, unlucky in the end.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by FalcaoPunch on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:14 pm

@Le Samourai wrote:He plays better when we are chasing the game, or any time he sees the ball more than once every 25 minutes really.

Carlo it seems wanted to lock it down in the first and push toward the end, and I think he timed it well, individual lapses from Khedira and Lopez were unlucky. Hitting the post was unlucky, not getting the penalty was unlucky.

I genuinely thought Ramos was going to be a centre back, in my mind 3 at the back is really a worthwhile experiment. But in the middle, he's a better passer than Khedira and that showed. Still, playing him as a floating DM with none to track was a mistake. The minute Messi veered right he should have slotted in behind Marcelo.

I thought we played a well paced game though, unlucky in the end.

First paragraph. Yes I agree.


Second paragraph. Carlo wanted to close down the space in the center, I'm assuming to close passing angles. But if he's even watched one game of Barcelona this season with tata, he would have realized that barca don't rely on tiki taka as much as a before. He didn't time anything well. Don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

Third paragraph. Ramos is a better passer. He's not a midfielder. In certain situations he may have to play there but as long as we have fit midfielders there is no reason he should play there. It's like saying we have a fit Marcelo,Arbeloa,Coentrao but we put Bale as LB. And having to play with 3 CB? Is that a joke?

Last paragraph. Our second half was a huge improvement and we played a good game. With Modric being my standout performer.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by StrugaRock on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:15 pm

Carvajal and Modric were the best, with special mention to Varane. Ronaldo and Marcelo average, others crap.

Benzema works as a charm in super-sub, unlucky he didn't score.

Bale seems lost

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by terrance511 on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:18 pm

bale aerial play is good, can play him as centre forward
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Probelm with this game was the lack of pressing. we picked out their runners quite good but let them pass the ball between themselves in their own half

not only this game but it happened vs juve and pretty much all season. I don't know whether it worked at psg but it has never worked for us

in the end I think we were quite unlucky. a draw would have been justice but it didn't happen. Lopez should have probably done better for Alxes' goal but I have to say it was very well executed

Dont know what business Bale had on the pitch, he didn't trouble Adriano at all and DiMaria had an anonymous game as a false 9 barring that pass for ronaldos penalty shout and a bad touch when benz put him through on goal. we should have started a proper CF and put bale where he belonged aka stands

Great cameo from all our subs, Illara sorted out the midfield and probably won more balls than ramos did the entire time on the pitch, Benz added the needed intensity and Jese kept Adriano occupied. unlucky for benz that he hit the bar with his shot wish that would have gone in

khedira and chances Laughing how many chances does that guy get every game by just being in the right place at the right time. if only he knew what to do next

all in all either it was an improved performance or we made barca look good and they made us look good
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Le Samourai on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:28 pm

I agree really, but I thought he played well. I think Carlo would like a real defensive midfielder, or at the very least Alonso who understands how to occupy that space.

Did we have anyone like that? Maybe Casemiro, who knows why he doesn't play.

Modric was good, though again, I think we miss the opportunity to counter with him. In the first half we needed someone to try a couple balls over the top....considering we had no one between the lines to link play.

He needs to use who he's playing with as a reference point for how he plays. It's difficult for a midfielder, it's a tough standard to hold...but I truly think that's the type of midfielder we need.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by chad4401 on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:35 pm

Casemiro got dropped after he nearly gave away a penalty earlier in the season imo haven't seem him since that game.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by buddytaller on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:44 pm

Ancelloti made huge errors in his starting lineup but was good with his subs at least. We played well in the second half to at least earn a draw but the woodwork and some strange refereeing decisions let us down. The league is still young, if Ancelloti learns from his mistakes we can remain in contention till the end of the season.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Cyborg on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:11 pm

Ancellotti has no clue. I am realy suprised at how poorly organized the team is.

Madrid played so slow it was ridiculous, lucky for us that barca were poor too.

We need a play to link the forwards to the midfield, to create, to make plays.

It is glaringly evident.

I loved madrid's directness, speed on the break, no mercy attack straight to goal. This man has changed all that for this inept system that produces no goals. The three thirds of the field are disjointed.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by sportsczy on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:33 pm

Tbh, i wish we'd play CR7-Benz-Jese and have Morata + Di Maria be the supersubs in every game and then rotate them into a start now and then.

Most importantly, we played great when Carlo removed the super tactical shackles of our forwards and just let them improvise the play. Benz and CR7 are instinctive players... let them do what they do best. They're smart enough to figure out the soft spots. Too many times this season, our forwards are overthinking what they're supposed to do as opposed to just play.

Carlo needs to adjust to the players' strengths more.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by titosantill on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:33 pm

its the first clasico, whilst i understand peoples problems with ancelotti, i never expected him to go all out off the bat in the first clasico, barcelona still have a more consistent structure than we do especially in the midfield.....the formation we used was rubbish, but i understand carlo's motives, its one game, he needs to learn from that...juande ramos, pellegrini and mourinho lost their first clasicos ( juande and mou by really terrible results), benzema does better as a sub than being first choice; we've seen that wit france, dortmund, and el clasico from two years ago. i still don't support having him as first choice and wud like a new forward next year (i'm not sold on morata as a guy who can average 25 goals a season, but thats just me), jese needs playing time, and i really don't know how we will fit bale in the team, especially if we are not playing counter attack football and want to be more possession oriented but considering his price tag, carlo has to find a way......and for the record, ozil was NOT missed, people need to stop playing the ozil card all the time, he would have been bullied in midfield and got tired, he is an amazing player, and we all wud have liked him here, but people have blown that situation out of proportion
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:13 pm

This loss is because of Ancelotti,he screwed up the matched before it started. Why did he start without Illarra ? Atleast put a midfielder there not Ramos ffs. IMO Asier changed to game into our favour, not Benzema. We were far better than them in the 2nd half.

Diego: Had 2 good saves, but was at fault at the 2nd goal 6,5/10
Carvajal : Very good performance from him, especially defensive wise. Neymar couldn't get past him 1on1. 7.5/10
Varane : Looked overconfident. Made 2 mistakes one including the goal. 7/10
Pepe : Was okay. 7.5/10
Marcelo: His worst match of the season, maybe he was tired. Was slow, misplaced passes, bad touches, still quite good defensively. His performance may be put down on the fact tht Messi played on the right. 6.5/10
Ramos : 5/10
Khedira : Didn't do anything to help the defense, still had some good runs. 6/10
Modric: I got the feeling that he was the B2B and Khedira the AM. Very good performance from him. 7.5/10
Ronaldo : Our best attacker by far. Created chances, had a penalty, could have scored once. 7.5/10
Bale : Was not as bad as ppl make him out to be, though, that's not 30% of what he can do. 6/10
Di Maria : Got back to retarded mode. 6/10

Illarra : Was great, the game changed after he came on. 7.5/10
Benzema : His talent is legit. He just needs to sort his head, because he can be the best striker out there. 7/10
Jese : :bow:

Ancelotti : 6/10 (because of the subs he made)

The fair result would have been a draw IMO.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Mamad on Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:02 pm

Barca is nowhere near what they were 3 years ago. we can beat them. just have to improve.
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by LeSwagg James on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:17 am

Even though Ancelotti made 'mistakes', we still had an opportunity to win... We were just unlucky... We took it to them in the 2nd half and that gives me hope

I'm sure we will beat them at home

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by FalcaoPunch on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:25 am

I'm sure we will improve and in that course I hope we never see a lineup like that again.

We essentially just had 3 wingers up top all switching positions and in doing so there would be occasions where Bale would be caught on the very left and both Ronaldo and Di Maria on the far right with NO ONE in the middle.

It's a loss and 3 points gone, but I enjoyed our second half of the game and it could have easily gone our way. We just have to take it and move on.
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Nedved on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:37 am

Ancelloti has lost his head. There is nothing more to this.

With that amount of talent attacking talent at disposal, if you have 5 defenders on the pitch(no matter what role) to play attacking football then - I am not sure what I can say Smile

As for players - These were bad.

Marcelo- Marcelo slept on messi's back.

Khedira - Missed ton of chances. But If he going inside the box more often , then something is really wrong. He can't no anything in the final third is a known fact. then why Ancelloti? Should have taken Ramos role to shield Marcelo.

Ramos - He like Ancelloti lost his head - clueless in the role. Had he played Central defender, he would have done better.

Bale - Looked really nervous/clueless.

Carvajal - Got owned by Neymar.


Rest of the players did well, but finally we lost because of a pointless experiment..
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Thimmy on Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:27 am

I feel that all of the goals were largely due to goalkeeping blunders, but Barca were clearly the better side. On the upside, I think we have relatively far more room for improvement than Barca do... but then again, that's a problem we struggle with every time we change our manager, and I don't think that problem will end with Ancelotti.

I don't know about you guys, but I personally hate the Galacticos policy, and I can't wait for the day when Perez does not get re-elected. I'm sick and tired of his market value > talent policy, and I wish the fans who keep vouching for him would realise that bringing in the most popular players, at the expense of anyone who does not have the same global market value, is not going to get us anywhere. At least, not without some stability. I think I've been patient enough with Perez, up until now. This build and rebuild mentality is suffocatingly detrimental to the club's image and competitiveness. This is not a knee-jerk reaction, I'm completely calm and composed. Even if this team brings success to the club, Perez will eventually tear it apart piece by piece and attempt to rebuild it. It needs to stop... and hopefully soon.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Le Samourai on Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:45 am

@Thimmy wrote:I feel that all of the goals were largely due to goalkeeping blunders, but Barca were clearly the better side. On the upside, I think we have relatively far more room for improvement than Barca do... but then again, that's a problem we struggle with every time we change our manager, and I don't think that problem will end with Ancelotti.

I don't know about you guys, but I personally hate the Galacticos policy, and I can't wait for the day when Perez does not get re-elected. I'm sick and tired of his market value > talent policy, and I wish the fans who keep vouching for him would realise that bringing in the most popular players, at the expense of anyone who does not have the same global market value, is not going to get us anywhere. At least, not without some stability. I think I've been patient enough with Perez, up until now. This build and rebuild mentality is suffocatingly detrimental to the club's image and competitiveness. This is not a knee-jerk reaction, I'm completely calm and composed. Even if this team brings success to the club, Perez will eventually tear it apart piece by piece and attempt to rebuild it. It needs to stop... and hopefully soon.
True, for all my talk of what I want the team to be, I think that if the team had a singular identity be better than basically anyone. Regardless of what that identity is.

Right now, we're definitely in a transitional phase. Carlo is looking at how players interact with his structure, where he needs to modify it, and how he can get everyone thinking about the game the same way. It all looks a bit amorphous at the moment, and sometimes you can tell we just go back to what we know...but in the long term I think this is going to be the most important element of his stay here.

If we can get people on the same page then with the talent we have, there are very few teams that can hope to beat us. I have an ideal vision of what that is, perhaps it isn't entirely realistic. But even a watered down version, or a fundamentally different version will do wonders if it's consistently practiced.
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by terrance511 on Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:05 am

when did neymar owned carvajal?

carvajal did fine imo

overall, i think we fought well, there's no need to be in such negative mood. the game was much better than the 1st mou classico.

wonder why u all call it an experiment, it was a clear tactical motive with ramos def on messi, except messi was switched to wings, which denied the tactic and marcelo attacking as bonus.

it was a success when mou use pepe as dm on that classico, and remembering on next day 'messi stopper' all over the press.
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:08 am

Pepe was used again as the DM after that but it didn't work then and was subbed out early iirc

we have shown we play better when we play our own game as oposed to trying to mark opposition players like Carlo has forced us to do these past two games
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by sportsczy on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:15 pm

What's our own game though? Laughing

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Onyx on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:19 pm

Yeh there's no definitive style of play. Ancelotti says he wants to play possession, instead we're playing on the counter in the big games and playing poorly. If we are to play possesison, it has to be similar to Bayern/Barca level.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:37 pm

pressure and attack with precision Proud
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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by StrugaRock on Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:49 pm

Win a match with ugliness :coffee: 

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by Le Samourai on Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:54 pm

"Our own game" is the little thing that failed us massively against a Bayern team that was far below what they are today and a Dortmund team that, talent and experience wise, should not even be in the same conversation.

Possession and counter are both parts of it - the former is where the team is less comfortable at the moment. I also think Ancelotti wants people to learn to defend rather than just expound massive amounts of energy every now and again.

If you look at what he's trying to accomplish in the context of how and where we failed in the last couple years, you'll realize it's well worthwhile...and for the most part, he's going about it in a way that's not going to completely undermine the team the minute it hits it's peak.

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Re: El Clasico: Barcelona vs Real Madrid discussion

Post by sportsczy on Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:01 pm

I know what he's trying to do... but i look at the individual profiles of our players and i shake my head.

Do you really think we can play effective possession and buildup with Di Maria, Khedira, CR7 and Bale in there? Carlo is trying to put lipstick on a pig imo.

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