Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:38 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Messi's injuries are also down to Pep playing him every minute of every game.... it was going to catch up to him eventually.

I'm sure Tata takes some blame as well but its ridiculous to absolve Pep of zero blame but i'm not surprised can't question the motives of one of your own so has to be the foreigners fault.
No it doesn't, muscles fatigue doesn't last more than some weeks, months at very most. Everyone who knows something about fitness knows that.


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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:41 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Messi didnt press at all today, he was in super strolling mode from minute 1. Today's injury was either fall over from his last one or nothing to do with pressing, pick one.
His last one was because of pressing the goalkeeper with not danger at all. So if this one is because of his last one injury (which obviously is) it's pressing fault. He has fragile muscles who should be treated carefully and Tata didn't know that the first months so he made him press relentlessly and hence the several injuries.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by Winter is Coming on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:42 pm

Before Pep Messi was injury prone and in Pep era he wasnt and once Pep leaves he's back to injury. As far as i know Pep had Messi on a diet plan and kept tabs on his training which I believe was the reason he wasnt injured. It seems now Messi doesnt is off the diet and probably hardly trains. I dont blame Tata.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by aimars on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:44 pm

If it was Pep Guardiola Messi would have continued playing with injury and next game no injury at all. Before Messi was recovering in 1 day.

Tata subbes messi off every game still can not stop him from injury

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:46 pm

@Winter is Coming wrote:Before Pep Messi was injury prone and in Pep era he wasnt and once Pep leaves he's back to injury. As far as i know Pep had Messi on a diet plan and kept tabs on his training which I believe was the reason he wasnt injured. It seems now Messi doesnt is off the diet and probably hardly trains. I dont blame Tata.
Well you should. As well as Pep put him in all these regimes Tata also could. Tata is the responsible of Messi health and training.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by aimars on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:54 pm

In summer holidays other players get rest but messi playing charity games and travelling 2-3 times a week. His holiday is only 2 weeks without football. He is the first one who comes back to training from holidays. Seems too much playing did its work

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by Winter is Coming on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:55 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@Winter is Coming wrote:Before Pep Messi was injury prone and in Pep era he wasnt and once Pep leaves he's back to injury. As far as i know Pep had Messi on a diet plan and kept tabs on his training which I believe was the reason he wasnt injured. It seems now Messi doesnt is off the diet and probably hardly trains. I dont blame Tata.
Well you should. As well as Pep put him in all these regimes Tata also could. Tata is the responsible of Messi health and training.
Perhaps Messi has some blame in this? How do we know he didnt think he needed to go through training anymore, or the diet? Averaging 50 goals à season and winning 4 ballon dor he may think he didnt need Pep diet and training session.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by The Franchise on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:58 pm

I dont want to get into a big discussion about how someone gets injured.

It is completely and totally impossible to prove anything. All you can do is prove correlation, not causation. And all this is, is guess work and speculations...not facts.

All I will say is, I find it incredibly difficult to believe a 5-6 extra 5-10m sprints (which he hardly ever does because he still strolls around the pitch most games) is the one and only reason, or even the main reason for this.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:00 pm

I don't really understand how he can be getting injured so often in different legs. It's not as if a particular muscle is dragging him down, it seems systematic.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by danyjr on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:09 pm

I fear for Argentina...Crying or Very sad

I also agree with Franchise & BC. No way sprinting for a few minutes here and there is going to get you injured. And if it does, you got a serious physical problem that needs dire attention cause that ain't normal for a 26 year old. Unless the growth hormones...

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by aimars on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:10 pm

There can be several reasons:
- Not healthy diet
- rushing him back last season
- not getting rest in last 5 years
- too much sex lately
- he always had this sort of injuries but he played with injuries so nobody notices (under pep)
- just bad luck

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by Winter is Coming on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:17 pm

I was impressed with Bartra this game

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:17 pm

@danyjr wrote:I fear for Argentina...Crying or Very sad

I also agree with Franchise & BC. No way sprinting for a few minutes here and there is going to get you injured. And if it does, you got a serious physical problem that needs dire attention cause that ain't normal for a 26 year old. Unless the growth hormones...
Of course it can. Sprinting just once can get you injured. Every time you make a sprint at 100% you have a chance of injuring. The more you sprint in a game/series of games, the bigger the chance because you are taking the risk more times and because your muscle keeps piling fatigue.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by futbol on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:33 pm

Yeah, in the 500 games under Pep he never made a single sprint on a football pitch.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:42 pm

@futbol wrote:Yeah, in the 500 games under Pep he never made a single sprint on a football pitch.
?

What part you don't understand of this: "The more you sprint in a game/series of games, the bigger the chance because you are taking the risk more times and because your muscle keeps piling fatigue."

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by danyjr on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:50 pm

@free_cat wrote:Of course it can. Sprinting just once can get you injured. Every time you make a sprint at 100% you have a chance of injuring. The more you sprint in a game/series of games, the bigger the chance because you are taking the risk more times and because your muscle keeps piling fatigue.
Dude, you can blame Martino on the tactics he chooses or his squad selection or his philosophy or his outfit. But please, do not blame Messi's injuries on this nonsense.

An athlete who trains every day and warms up before coming on the pitch should be able to sprint reasonably frequent with minimal risk of injury. Puyol is 10 years older than Messi and he sprinted three times more than Messi has done in the past few matches. And you blame Martino?

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by harhar11 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:51 pm

I think that Tito "forcing" Messi to play against PSG while injured, and allowing him to play those damn charity games, even though both Messi and club knew that heneeded his rest, is a bigger reason to his health problems than forcing Messi to make an extra 3-5 sprints per game. I mean, under Guardiola, Messi pressed alooooot more than he has been doing this season..

@danyjr wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Of course it can. Sprinting just once can get you injured. Every time you make a sprint at 100% you have a chance of injuring. The more you sprint in a game/series of games, the bigger the chance because you are taking the risk more times and because your muscle keeps piling fatigue.
Dude, you can blame Martino on the tactics he chooses or his squad selection or his philosophy or his outfit. But please, do not blame Messi's injuries on this nonsense.

An athlete who trains every day and warms up before coming on the pitch should be able to sprint reasonably frequent with minimal risk of injury. Puyol is 10 years older than Messi and he sprinted three times more than Messi has done in the past few matches. And you blame Martino?
+1

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:53 pm

@danyjr wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Of course it can. Sprinting just once can get you injured. Every time you make a sprint at 100% you have a chance of injuring. The more you sprint in a game/series of games, the bigger the chance because you are taking the risk more times and because your muscle keeps piling fatigue.
Dude, you can blame Martino on the tactics he chooses or his squad selection or his philosophy or his outfit. But please, do not blame Messi's injuries on this nonsense.

An athlete who trains every day and warms up before coming on the pitch should be able to sprint reasonably frequent with minimal risk of injury. Puyol is 10 years older than Messi and he sprinted three times more than Messi has done in the past few matches. And you blame Martino?
So, Messi didn' get injured with Pep, got injured only once with Tito, but he gets 4 injuries in 4 months with Martino and he has no responsibility? 0? Sure....

Not every player has the same muscles, Messi has weaker muscles because he has a lot of rapid fibres, just as many quick players (Robben, or Adriano other examples). You rarely see slow CBs like Puyol getting a muscle teared.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by harhar11 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:02 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@danyjr wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Of course it can. Sprinting just once can get you injured. Every time you make a sprint at 100% you have a chance of injuring. The more you sprint in a game/series of games, the bigger the chance because you are taking the risk more times and because your muscle keeps piling fatigue.
Dude, you can blame Martino on the tactics he chooses or his squad selection or his philosophy or his outfit. But please, do not blame Messi's injuries on this nonsense.

An athlete who trains every day and warms up before coming on the pitch should be able to sprint reasonably frequent with minimal risk of injury. Puyol is 10 years older than Messi and he sprinted three times more than Messi has done in the past few matches. And you blame Martino?
So, Messi didn' get injured with Pep, got injured only once with Tito, but he gets 4 injuries in 4 months with Martino and he has no responsibility? 0? Sure....

Not every player has the same muscles, Messi has weaker muscles because he has a lot of rapid fibres, just as many quick players (Robben, or Adriano other examples). You rarely see slow CBs like Puyol getting a muscle teared.
A question, is this the same kind of injury that he got against Psg? If so, then maybe he never fully recovered from that injury and Tito making him play against PSG, while injured, has made it even worse. Not to mention that Messi play alot of charity games during his vacation and never had time to rest.

To only blame Tata for this really isn't fair. Tito has to also take responsibility..


Last edited by harhar11 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:09 pm

@harhar11 wrote:
@free_cat wrote:
@danyjr wrote:Dude, you can blame Martino on the tactics he chooses or his squad selection or his philosophy or his outfit. But please, do not blame Messi's injuries on this nonsense.

An athlete who trains every day and warms up before coming on the pitch should be able to sprint reasonably frequent with minimal risk of injury. Puyol is 10 years older than Messi and he sprinted three times more than Messi has done in the past few matches. And you blame Martino?
So, Messi didn' get injured with Pep, got injured only once with Tito, but he gets 4 injuries in 4 months with Martino and he has no responsibility? 0? Sure....

Not every player has the same muscles, Messi has weaker muscles because he has a lot of rapid fibres, just as many quick players (Robben, or Adriano other examples). You rarely see slow CBs like Puyol getting a muscle teared.
A question, is this the same kind of injury that he got against Psg? If so, then maybe he never fully recovered from that injury and Tito making him play against PSG, while injured, has made it even worse. Not to mention that Messi play alot of charity games during his vacation and never had time to rest.

To only blame Tata for this is really ain't fair. Tito has to also take responsibility..
No, he has injured both his legs in these last 4 injuries.

Also, last season injury was on May. He was fully healed in August when we started playing again.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by harhar11 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:17 pm

@free_cat wrote:No, he has injured both his legs in these last 4 injuries.

Also, last season injury was on May. He was fully healed in August when we started playing again.
So you honestly think that forcing him to play injured against PSG and an entire game against Bayern last season, and then not resting in the summer, has had no effect Messi's health, even though he has reinjured himself on that same muscle a couple of time after he was "healed"?


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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:19 pm

I side with harhar. After Iniesta played the CL final in 08/09 he struggled with injuries for the following 6 months before he regained full match fitness.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by harhar11 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:41 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I side with harhar. After Iniesta played the CL final in 08/09 he struggled with injuries for the following 6 months before he regained full match fitness.
Exactly! Iniesta himself admitted it aswell.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by eelir on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:06 pm

harhar11 +1

free take of those catalan goggles! Not everyone who is not Massia made is a bad/incompetent guy.
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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by FennecFox7 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:24 pm

That's not necessarily true free... its not just about fast/slow twitch fiber type...

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by CBarca on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:44 pm

How can Tata be at fault?

Pep had Messi play every minute of every game and particularly in the early years, the pressing of the entire team, Messi included, was a lot more impressive and intense than it is now.

Hell, not even including the breaks Messi gets from his injuries, Tata has given him breaks occasionally, things neither Tito or Pep did.

The fact of the matter is, there are likely a multitude of reasons for Messi's injuries, some perhaps stemming from Pep, some from Tito, and some from this season...factor in things like just being damn unlucky, speculative things like perhaps poor diet (we don't know) and you have what Messi has right now.

Messi has played at a ridiculous level the past couple seasons without being injured when he was not a stranger to injuries in his early years. It was bound to catch up to him sooner or later.

Let's just hope it's something that can be put behind him again.

To put all the blame on Tata though? Nah, don't buy it.

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