Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by CBarca on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:44 am

How can Tata be at fault?

Pep had Messi play every minute of every game and particularly in the early years, the pressing of the entire team, Messi included, was a lot more impressive and intense than it is now.

Hell, not even including the breaks Messi gets from his injuries, Tata has given him breaks occasionally, things neither Tito or Pep did.

The fact of the matter is, there are likely a multitude of reasons for Messi's injuries, some perhaps stemming from Pep, some from Tito, and some from this season...factor in things like just being damn unlucky, speculative things like perhaps poor diet (we don't know) and you have what Messi has right now.

Messi has played at a ridiculous level the past couple seasons without being injured when he was not a stranger to injuries in his early years. It was bound to catch up to him sooner or later.

Let's just hope it's something that can be put behind him again.

To put all the blame on Tata though? Nah, don't buy it.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by Khaled on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:29 am

Great result.

MOM: Bartra! He's really better than Albiol and Inigo and deserves to be in Spain's squad for the World Cup!

Also Valdes made 2 great saves, he continues his great form, sadly he didn't keep a clean sheet this time. I don't think its a penalty, Alves clearly got the ball [watch the reply].

Song played well, Cesc very effective again [2 goals, 1 assists]. Good game by Neymar overall, although he should shot more.

Pedro has some great runs, especially the goal... the way he sprinted and got past Betis defender to score the goal was brilliant [if that goal was scored by CR you would have seen it all over the news and people talking about how fast he is LOL]
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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by windkick on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:54 am

B.Cosminco

Did you lose a bet? What gives with that AV?

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by windkick on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:55 am

@free_cat wrote:4Th muscle injury from Messi under Tata in 4 months. Ridiculous.
I guess your ignoring that Messi was injured since the PSG match last season when Tata was in Argentina

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by billy_gr on Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:28 am

I agree with the general consesus here. Tata is not to be blamed (at least not 100%) for messi's condition.
also messi is not a shy guy when he speaks to coaches. if he was unhappy with the way tata uses him he would have spoken
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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:58 am

So, according to all of you, the responsibles of Messi's injuries are Messi himself or Tito, for an injury that happened 6 months ago. Tata not at all for making Messi press in non dangerous situations and getting himself injured 4 weeks ago. Makes sense.

I must be wrong. Although I predicted this would happen when Tata took charge and said he would make the team press much more and we saw Messi running much more at the begining of the season. 4 months and 4 muscle injuries later, people prefer to disregard facts.

Iniesta case was very different, he didn't get injured again after the end of 2009, and in a different muscle (he was injured in his quads in Rome and mainly got isquios injuries in 2009/2010). What Iniesta did for us was an heroicity as well as what Messi did for us vs. PSG, but saying injuries 6-9 months later in different muscles are due to that makes no sense.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by futbol on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:22 am

Totally agree. He went off in Tata's very first game after 45 minutes. Prove enough that the 3 km he covered in that amount of time was too much for him to handle due to Tata.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:29 am

@futbol wrote:Totally agree. He went off in Tata's very first game after 45 minutes. Prove enough that the 3 km he covered in that amount of time was too much for him to handle due to Tata.
It's very normal to have overbuden in pre-season... which brings me again to same conclusion: Tata is the boss and he sets up the training in pre season and should be careful with Messi. Also, if he saw that Messi was not fully fit or had overburden, he shouldn't have played Messi. Responsible: Tata.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by billy_gr on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:07 am

no if he's not fit enough to acomodate to the system he should just work more on his physique.
he's a multimillion salary professional athlete ffs. are we going to blame Tata for asking him to run some more?
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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by futbol on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:15 am

If he had an overburdening it was because that previous clown Pito played Messi in a meaningless game against Rayo Vallecano at home 3 days after he came back from a 3000 meter high altitude game in La Paz. Despite having a gazillion point lead in La Liga at that stage. And because Pito's tactics were so clueless without Messi that the team couldn't muster a single shot on target against PSG at home, he had to sub in a visibly injured Messi and play him against Bayern as well. Which at the end caused the long pause from April to August and *bleep* up his entire rythm. And when he can't play and covers 0 km instead of 8 km he also has to have a different diet obviously. Which messes with his body even more.

But yes, Tata's pressing injured Messi. Hurr durr.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:17 am

If that leads to injuries, off course.

Tata's statements on Messi injury makes you want to cry.

"I don't know of medicine and I will do what doctors say"
"I couldn't explain what's happening to him if it's chance or not. I wouldn't want to talk about what I don't have knowledge ".
"We will have to talk to Messi "


Great, we appointed a coach with 0 knowledge on fitness training, injuries treatment and prevention and who waits until the fourth injury to talk with a player and look for a solution.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by futbol on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:20 am

Yes, we appointed a football coach without a Ph.D. in medicine. Very unusual, I know.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by harhar11 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:41 am

@futbol wrote:Yes, we appointed a football coach without a Ph.D. in medicine. Very unusual, I know.
hahahaha rofl

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:05 am

@futbol wrote:Yes, we appointed a football coach without a Ph.D. in medicine. Very unusual, I know.
It really is very worrying that we appointed a coach that admits not knowing anything about injuries, their treatment, prevention, etc.

Or should be, for people who has any interest in our player's health instead of making silly jokes.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by The Franchise on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:11 pm

Does it matter of Tata has knowledge of stuff like that? If he doesnt surely someone else is the one making plans or decisions?

Again, I find it hard to believe its common knowledge that Martino doesnt have that base of knowledge and still makes decisions. That just doesnt sound like common sense.

Either he has knowledge or he isnt making those decisions.

But again, this is all assumption and guesswork, so laying blame on someone without actual facts is unfair.
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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by neuro11 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:42 pm

don know why are we crying this way...One group clearly insulting Tata whereas the other group is complete blind about him. We all barca fans and we all love our players and coach as well. why we are so unable to find the truth without bias......
I am completely convinced with Tata's performance, he has removed the so long Messi dependence from this team which no one before could have done. Now i strongly believe we can win many matches without Messi if not all. Ofcourse i did not believe even few months ago.
But i don know, something must be wrong. 4 injuries under him even before half of the season mean something is definitely going wrong. And if something is wrong Tata cant avoid the blame. I think he should ofcourse be careful about what is the best for his best players- even if he is not a master in fitness tarinings .......

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by windkick on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:34 pm

I find it ridiculous that Tata is being blamed for Messi's muscle tearing (or whatever it is). I mean, prior to yesterdays injury everyone was blaming Tata for Messi hardly running and walking all over the pitch. He gets injured, and now everyones blaming Messi for over working him and thus injuring his leg.

Injuries happen, and at the rate Messi was getting injured since the PSG match last season it shows he was leading towards this path sooner or later. Better he gets surgery now and gets it out of the way at this point in the season than later. For all you know Messi was telling everyone he was fine and was rushing himself out there cause he loves to compete and wasn't scoring ... who knows.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:16 pm

Free come on now. This coach's background is being a footballer, developing leadership skills as a captain at many teams and figuring out the right tactics to face different shapes. That is the background of most coaches. The people responsible for injuries are Barca's legion of physios and especially Juanjo Brau who is appointed to Messi and has recently not been seen with him.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:37 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Free come on now. This coach's background is being a footballer, developing leadership skills as a captain at many teams and figuring out the right tactics to face different shapes. That is the background of most coaches. The people responsible for injuries are Barca's legion of physios and especially Juanjo Brau who is appointed to Messi and has recently not been seen with him.
A coach should know about fitness, injuries, etc or have the right people to address this. He doesn't.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:40 pm

Barca doesn't have the right people to address this? Since when? You think we would have a world class fitness center and not hire the right people to assess the coach?

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:41 pm

@windkick wrote:I find it ridiculous that Tata is being blamed for Messi's muscle tearing (or whatever it is). I mean, prior to yesterdays injury everyone was blaming Tata for Messi hardly running and walking all over the pitch. He gets injured, and now everyones blaming Messi for over working him and thus injuring his leg.
Juas, you obviously haven't read any of my posts, ever.

You can't get surgery on a teared muscle.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:41 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Barca doesn't have the right people to address this? Since when? You think we would have a world class fitness center and not hire the right people to assess the coach?
Tata brought his own men. Paolorosso.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:43 pm

That's true and I forgot about that.

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by eelir on Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:58 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@futbol wrote:Totally agree. He went off in Tata's very first game after 45 minutes. Prove enough that the 3 km he covered in that amount of time was too much for him to handle due to Tata.
It's very normal to have overbuden in pre-season... which brings me again to same conclusion: Tata is the boss and he sets up the training in pre season and should be careful with Messi. Also, if he saw that Messi was not fully fit or had overburden, he shouldn't have played Messi. Responsible: Tata.
c'mon free! WHen was Tata brought to Barca? Did he organize the preseason or was it Raura who was managing most of it?

And when Tata said about doctors he probably wanted to say that the team has more competent people to assess the situation and recommend best treatment/future steps to overcome the problem. He was just being honest in the sense that he is not expert in that. He is rather vocal when it comes to the play and tactics, so I guess he only talks about things he is 100% responsible. Health is probably not his expertise hence he wont comment.
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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by Gotverenler on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:17 pm

This reminds me of R9 injury. If this injury happens again and again then Messi has same story. He is the type of a player who peaks very early

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Re: Betis - Barça. Sunday at 21:00 CET

Post by danyjr on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:56 pm

I feared the same yesterday but then remembered that Ronaldo's injuries were joint/bone problems (his knees) which are completely different in nature to muscle injuries.

Having said that, those growth hormones supplements surely have some kind of long term side effects. I hope this is not one of them.

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