Ajax vs Barcelona

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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by free_cat on Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:24 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Yeah, I get that. But I just wondered his opinion of Cesc alone, not in comparison to other players.
I'm not entirely convinced by Cesc, but mostly because we haven't seen Cesc play in big games as a CM. His level against normal teams has been very good at CM this season, and good enough for me. He doesn't and will never control the game as Xavi did, but who will? But he is not useless in that regard as made out to be, and can add a lot in attack. However, he should show he can do it vs great opposition too, and so far neither Tito, Tata or Pep have let it prove himself as a CM vs the best.


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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by alexjanosik on Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:37 pm

While I do agree that we lack athletic midfielders,I dont share the opinion that they take the lions blame for our lackluster pressing.
I think our forwards are much more to blame.Pressing starts from the front and our forwards have been very poor at doing that.Our forwards either dont press and when they do its individually and not collectively.One presses while the other 2 back off and drop deep allowing the opposition player easy passing options.Thats why even scrub teams are able to pass their way out of the back against us.

And the forwards not pressing also creates problems for the midfielders.Take for example Xavi.He is expected to press the GK or CB,press the ball in midfield and track back to defend when the ball is in our third.Thats 2 more jobs than he is capable of.So for me,our pressing issues start with the forwards.Once they start pressing properly,I think everyone will be surprised how much better of a job the midfield does while pressing.

And I most certainly dont agree with free's view that Fab has been our best CM this season,let alone by far.The best CM doesnt let us get dominated and outplayed in midfield by 10 man Granada.Sure he did his normal rabbit killing act and got a goal and an assist.But that doesnt convince me.He was atrocious and let us get dominated and outplayed in midfield by 10 man Granada.Classic example of a player whose stats hide his real performances.His season has been overrated because of his stats.

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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by free_cat on Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:00 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:While I do agree that we lack athletic midfielders,I dont share the opinion that they take the lions blame for our lackluster pressing.
I think our forwards are much more to blame.Pressing starts from the front and our forwards have been very poor at doing that.Our forwards either dont press and when they do its individually and not collectively.One presses while the other 2 back off and drop deep allowing the opposition player easy passing options.Thats why even scrub teams are able to pass their way out of the back against us.

And the forwards not pressing also creates problems for the midfielders.Take for example Xavi.He is expected to press the GK or CB,press the ball in midfield and track back to defend when the ball is in our third.Thats 2 more jobs than he is capable of.So for me,our pressing issues start with the forwards.Once they start pressing properly,I think everyone will be surprised how much better of a job the midfield does while pressing.

And I most certainly dont agree with free's view that Fab has been our best CM this season,let alone by far.The best CM doesnt let us get dominated and outplayed in midfield by 10 man Granada.Sure he did his normal rabbit killing act and got a goal and an assist.But that doesnt convince me.He was atrocious and let us get dominated and outplayed in midfield by 10 man Granada.Classic example of a player whose stats hide his real performances.His season has been overrated because of his stats.
Granada dominating our midfield? You've got to be kidding. Lol.
Ajax dominated our midfield while they were 11 men, and Xavi was playing.
Also, I don't understand what's bad with adding goals and creating chances from a midfielder.
Yes, Cesc scored and gave several passes of goal vs. Granada, get over. He also passed the ball 85 times with a 91% of success (more than anyone in our team, meaning he was the focal distributor of the ball). He isn't Xavi, and never will be, but he is more than a capable playmaker.

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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by eelir on Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:04 pm

for once I have to defend Cesc. So far he has been our best CM. Xavi seams tired and cant cope with pressure and agree with alex, he needs our forwards to press more than ever. Iniesta has had only one game where you could see his old self almost this entire season.

Cesc on the other hand has been shown to unlock the games and provide that unexpected x factor. I do not care he can't control the game. He is not such player and never will be. We had a chance to get a player close to Xavi and we let him go (although Thiago had more of Iniesta flair IMHO). He is that player who performs (above) averagely in CM until he does something wonderful and scores or assists. You guys make it as if it is too easy for CM to assist and score... It is not!

But, I have to see Cesc do this magic vs. big teams. If he can do this against big ones, I think we are pretty much OK with MF. I mean, the aim of the game is to score, and if Cesc is enabling/doing that, he is perfect!
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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by alexjanosik on Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:01 pm

Granada had almost the same possession as us and that too with 10 men.I rest my case.
And are u really comparing Ajax in their stadium in a must win game giving their all to playing Granada at home with a man advantage.

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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:01 pm

[quote="eelir"
Cesc on the other hand has been shown to unlock the games and provide that unexpected x factor.[/quote]
This is a myth, when did he do this?

@Freecat

Not ignoring your opinion, its duly noted. I dont exactly agree but noted none the less.

I dont care about him 'controlling games" either btw, I already knew long ago he doesnt have that. My problem is those times he is completely missing because he is too focused on playing higher up (where he can get stats).

Whenever he is in midfield, it cant happen, otherwise we will always struggle when pressed.

Him being missing and Xavi being missing are completely different things by the way, which is why I think I understand the difference between Alex's opinion and Free's.

When Cesc is "missing", he is really missing, you literally dont see him.

When Xavi is "missing", he isnt playing dangerous passes, but he is still involved in the game. Unless its like Ajax, where we dont dominate the ball.



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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by billy_gr on Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:39 am

I'm one of the biggest fans of Xavi out there but when was the last time that he was stelar for us in a major game?
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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by Essey on Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:17 pm

Just we should accept that team can not score many goals without Messi against above average and good teams.

Why even to argue, only player that opposite teams fear is Messi. they dont fear of Xavi and company.
Only Neymar and Cesc can be mentioned. others not

Example in Madrid every player can score, they have very good finishers in midfield. isco, bale, di maria even xabi alonso. not to mention Arbeloa. Thats why when Ronaldo is not playing they dont miss him.

But when Messi is not playing its a problem for Barcelona

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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by alexjanosik on Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:23 pm

@billy_gr wrote:I'm one of the biggest fans of Xavi out there but when was the last time that he was stelar for us in a major game?
I thought he was brilliant against Milan in the first leg.Didnt put a foot wrong.
In the Clasico too he was very good.He put in a captain's performance.Some great touches,distributed the ball quickly and was great defensively.Covered a lot of ground.

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Re: Ajax vs Barcelona

Post by billy_gr on Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:55 pm

I missed the classico and didn't get the chance to see it yet. as for the milan game it's not like he turned it around in our favor or anything
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