Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by Art Morte on Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:52 pm

I agree that Sterling and Moses had a bad game, but I wouldn't get too hard on their backs. I was hoping one of them would start, but starting both of them when neither have been playing much lately was a mistake - especially when it means leaving Coutinho on the bench. Hull were always going to sit deep and we needed Coutinho to pick that lock.

I really really want to see one of our midfield trio of Henderson, Lucas, Gerrard dropped in the next two games. At the moment Lucas is starting because of his specialized "midfield-anchor" role. Gerrard is starting because of his reputation and Henderson is being thrown about the pitch because he's a good player with a bit of everything to him. Last week he played RM or RW, now he played CAM... No. Just no.


But the main problem, to me, was that our game plan simply wasn't working. Rodgers took this game too lightly when he handed starts in attack to two lately-fringe players. We had no one to create chances in the final third. The team was very disjointed and we lacked direct players, apart from Suarez, who had a bad game himself.

Also, both Johnson and Flanagan were poor and contributed to Moses' and Sterling's weak performances. There was a lack of dynamism, desire and ability in our flanks.


This result really makes our next two home games must-wins.

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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by donttreadonred on Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:40 pm

Wow, I leave for a month or so and everything goes to heck in a hand basket. I see the kneejerk-cynicism is flowing smoothly today.

Listen, this is an awful result, and there’s no excusing that. Everything from player performance to the team selection and set-up are fair game for criticism. However, to say we don’t deserve CL because of a bad performance is pure emotional hyperbole. Take a few deep breaths, step away, and remember that these three points count exactly the same as three points against United, City, Chelsea, etc. The only thing that truly measures whether you deserve CL is the points tally, and this game counts the same as any other.

With that said, it’s not that I don’t understand the argument. If the squad and Rodgers continue to perform at this level we will fail to get into the CL and likely lose some quality in the squad. I have a fair few grievances with both manager and squad today. Here are just a few.

Rodgers:
- Without a true #10 in the squad, why did we play 4-2-3-1? Surely, we weren’t so worried about Hull’s forwards and creative players that we felt the need to have Gerrard and Lucas sit in front of the back four.  I would’ve loved to have seen the same 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 set-up that we used in the derby. Henderson in the #10 role doesn’t really work. He’s simply not creative in the way you need from a #10. However, he can be very effective alongside Gerrard (or even Allen) in the forward 2 of the midfield 3 in a 4-3-3.
- Why wasn’t Coutinho in the starting XI? Did I miss a knock to him in training? He obviously came on for the last 15-20 minutes and looked fine. If we were going to play with a #10, he or Alberto are far better creators than Hendo. Moreover, with Sturridge not on the pitch, Suarez cannot create as well, as he is too often making the expected #9’s runs.
- With Sakho and Agger arguably two of our best defenders (and both are left-footed), why did we choose to pair Toure and Skrtel? This is especially pertinent, as it meant Skrtel moving to the left, where he had some of his more shocking displays last season.  I know that not everyone will agree with me on my assessment of Sakho and Agger, but I’m confused as to why Sakho especially can’t get a look-in after his performances earlier in the season, his recent showing with the French squad, and Rodgers’s obvious inclination to shuffle for this match.

Squad:
The bad…
- Victor Moses was atrocious.If he was wondering in midweek why he wasn’t getting a game… Well, son. This is precisely why. The frustrating thing is that he has the physical tools and skill to be very good. However, much like Enrique, the problem resides squarely between his ears. He simply makes far too many bad decisions on the pitch. For my money, Sterling may be more useful even now. While he doesn’t have the physical presence of Moses, and he will make the youthful mistake/mis-touch/etc. every now and then, he makes better decisions, and he appears to learn and adapt within matches. I was shocked Raheem was pulled before Moses, as I had been calling for Moses to be hauled off for a good 10 minutes.
- Suarez had a bad match. Though he didn’t have a ton of support, he never looked like creating too much from open play. Even so, he nearly earned us a draw with that free-kick in the second half. It’s hard to fault him too much for not creating something magical with below-par performances around him.
- Gerrard was also quite anonymous again this week. Besides his free-kick goal, he didn’t contribute much of anything.  He failed to dictate play from deep, he contributed little in the final third, and he offered little in the way of defensive cover. Of course, Hull did press him fairly well, not allowing him the time and space to pull the strings. However, he seemed all-too-willing to shuffle the ball to Lucas and Glenjo and remain static as they attempted to create something.
- Skrtel started the match rather well, but became more timid and less assured as the game went on. Perhaps it’s somewhat harsh to directly blame him for the goal, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to question just what on earth he was thinking about when he heading that chip from Huddlestone. Hardly anything good can come of such a move in that position. It was a dreadful decision, and it cost us any chance of taking any points from the match.

The good…
- Flanagan again looked assured today. Even on the left, he rarely looked uncomfortable on the ball or a true liability in defense. I’ve been impressed with his performance for the second week in a row.
- Lucas had a good game today. With Gerrard looking less than his typical imperious self, the Brazilian was asked to contribute more at the back and in the middle of the pitch. I thought his passing and vision were better today. However, he wasn’t able to make up for other poor performances.

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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:37 pm

I'm still baffled by this game.

We're in for a loooooooong 2 months without Danny. Will probably be 9th by the time he's back.

BR has no game plan away from home. We're so pedestrian. And he can't complain about money when he spends it mostly on squad players/shit. Wish we had a decent manager

Sick of this clown....this is the best chance to get back to the top 4, but his persistence with out-of-form players and lacklustre away coaching is denying us this chance.

We'll lose worse than Spurs at Etihad. Quote me on that.

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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by Robespierre on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:06 am

I don't understand Sakho on bench.
the explanation " he is left-handed as Agger"  doesn't  hold because even the Danish didn't play today.
Besides I ' ve seen highlights now and Toure e Skrtel have played a  poor performance...
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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by Red Alert on Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:06 am

@donttreadonred wrote:Wow, I leave for a month or so and everything goes to heck in a hand basket. I see the kneejerk-cynicism is flowing smoothly today.

Listen, this is an awful result, and there’s no excusing that. Everything from player performance to the team selection and set-up are fair game for criticism. However, to say we don’t deserve CL because of a bad performance is pure emotional hyperbole. Take a few deep breaths, step away, and remember that these three points count exactly the same as three points against United, City, Chelsea, etc. The only thing that truly measures whether you deserve CL is the points tally, and this game counts the same as any other.

how is it kneejerk? this isn't the first game away from home where we've been poor and looked depleted and lost, it's not a one off

you won't get anywhere in the league if you can't play away from home

we've won 2 games from 7 away (bar arsenal, we haven't versed anyone that's "great"; we're losing points against teams we should be winning if we want CL

we've conceded 13 goals on the road. 13 goals. we've only let 16 in for the season. it's definitely not knee jerk, this is a lot of rodgers' going "wrong" when we play away from anfield. if it's not experimenting with formations / playing styles, it's absurd team selections, if it's not down to those 2, his substitutions have been wrong, he's "flopped" this season away from home as it stands right now. if we do improve, and if we do get into the CL, I highly doubt we'll even make it out of their groups if this is how we play away. to be honest, Liverpool is just lucky that the teams around them have been horrible this season. united, city and spurs poor performances have made us look better than we have.
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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by Art Morte on Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:31 am

Natalie Portman wrote:

BR has no game plan away from home. We're so pedestrian. And he can't complain about money when he spends it mostly on squad players/shit. Wish we had a decent manager

Sick of this clown....this is the best chance to get back to the top 4, but his persistence with out-of-form players and lacklustre away coaching is denying us this chance.

We'll lose worse than Spurs at Etihad. Quote me on that.
I suppose one could always wonder about Rodgers' position hmm

When Comolli got the sack, Kenny was soon to follow. Now our youth academy director has got the sack... And yes, when we look at our lack of quality in depth, it's a downer to realize we spent some £20m on Aspas, Alberto and Ilori last summer. Or, what, £25m on Allen and Borini the previous one. Instead we could have a £20m midfielder and a £20m forward. And our depth in numbers would still be about the same, because Borini and Ilori are not in the picture anyway.

But I don't want to kick-off an anti-Rodgers campaign after one defeat. Let's see which way we go from here, there are six games left in December: Norwich, West Ham and Cardiff at home, all should be wins. Tottenham, Manc City and Chelsea on the road. I'd take three draws from those.
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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:26 am

Midfield is critical in away games because it allows to control pace. When the midfield is poor... you're often left at the mercy of your opponent's pace on the road = mostly disaster.

That area of the pitch needs a massive upgrade before Liverpool can pretend to anything.

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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by Helmer on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:59 am

I think it is clear how our missed target like Mkhi affecting this season. Watching Mkhi playing in CL and BL, i can really imagine what he could have added to our midfield. I think we could have given priority to the MF position also like we actually got Sturridge and Sakho deals done as early as possible but I guess BR could not forsee that this issue will escalate like this. I think it boils down to both issues that
1. BR could not see what is going to come if we play with this midfield
2. BR seems to get wrong tactics and team selection for these away matches
3. As Art pointed out the strategy in the tranfer window also seems to be questionable as the players bought in this window are not contributing to the results at all

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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by Helmer on Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:13 pm

Natalie Portman wrote:I'm still baffled by this game.

We're in for a loooooooong 2 months without Danny. Will probably be 9th by the time he's back.

BR has no game plan away from home. We're so pedestrian. And he can't complain about money when he spends it mostly on squad players/shit. Wish we had a decent manager

Sick of this clown....this is the best chance to get back to the top 4, but his persistence with out-of-form players and lacklustre away coaching is denying us this chance.

We'll lose worse than Spurs at Etihad. Quote me on that.
how dare you come here and blame our manger when it all happened because of your bet in the general section Mad

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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by Twoism on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:50 pm

Gerrard was ranked 2nd best midfielder in PL so far yet everytime i watched him he mostly walked around, Hendo was the opposite running was mostly what he did. What happened to Allen, surely he could be used. Teams got past Pool midfield too easily imo.
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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:23 pm

Our midfield is horrendous. Given the way we play, we need physicality in the middle.
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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by Don't call me James on Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:20 pm

Btw Flanagan offers zero in attack. Literally we've never had a full back who offered zero in attack until now. Even Konchesky used to get forward ffs.


EDIT: Months Later





Their goals
Spoiler:


Spoiler:

Spoiler:


Last edited by McAgger on Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:26 am; edited 6 times in total

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Re: Hull Tigers v Liverbirds

Post by Red Alert on Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:16 am

Flanagan is solid defensively and he's doing just fine imo.

I still think we should play Glen Johnson on that side as we have both Flanagan and Kelly who can play on the right hand side naturally. GJ's game isn't affected when playing on the left, so it helps the team... Flanagan loses his attacking qualities whilst playing on the left.
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