Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by futbol on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:54 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@futbol wrote:We are hoofing it more because the players can't counter press and patiently build from the back as they used to anymore. I thought that became abundantly clear when Real Madrid, Bayern and Brazil all outpressed the Barca midfield in the same season.
Nah thats not true at all. Why wouldnt they be able to pass out of pressure? You dont need anything but a plan and composure, skill and technique for that...your telling me thats what we lack?

We couldnt pass out of pressure of Bayern and Madrid because we dont follow our philosphy at all. We didnt create midfield rotation, we didnt advance the fullbacks, we didnt form 3 at the back...stark different from before.

Also, in those games we didnt pressure back so we only won and therefore only retained the ball at the back, therefore not relieving any tension on the back 4.
You need intensity. Something we don't have anymore. You talk about "midfield rotation" as if those kind of positional changes in a high complex pressing system don't require physical and mental sharpness. 2 things players like Xavi and Iniesta don't have anymore. Xavi has played as many European games as Giggs at 33. Giggs is 40. Any elite team with technical players would press like prime Barca if it was as simple as you portray it with fullback positioning + composure + midfield rotation.

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by Collblanc on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:55 pm

What is left of any of out tactics and philosophy since guardiola left? Since he left a piece of cruijf and laporte also left and never came back.
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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:56 pm

I know what you should do:

After the world cup, you should bring in Van Gaal for a season or two.
A short shock dose of van Gaal does wonders for the generation of young players, it did so for us.

But after 2 years at the most he has to go as he is an irritating prick..

World football should put together resources and funding for the quest to find a solution to clone van Gaal. He needs to be there forever so every top club can use him once in a while to overhaul their teams with youth players.

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by The Franchise on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:58 pm

@jibers wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
@futbol wrote:We are hoofing it more because the players can't counter press and patiently build from the back as they used to anymore. I thought that became abundantly clear when Real Madrid, Bayern and Brazil all outpressed the Barca midfield in the same season.
Nah thats not true at all. Why wouldnt they be able to pass out of pressure? You dont need anything but a plan and composure, skill and technique for that...your telling me thats what we lack?

We couldnt pass out of pressure of Bayern and Madrid because we dont follow our philosphy at all. We didnt create midfield rotation, we didnt advance the fullbacks, we didnt form 3 at the back...stark different from before.

Also, in those games we didnt pressure back so we only won and therefore only retained the ball at the back, therefore not relieving any tension on the back 4.
Dani people have to accept that all that is over, that was Pep's tactics. Even the positional play has dissappeared, that ridiculous pressure was Peps as well, people saying Barcelona should play like before really need to get a grip, they never will because the coach in no longer there. Although I'm not sure what Tata is playing at.
Jibbers, like I said before, Pep's ideas or not, its irrelevant to weather they can be followed or not.

You think, some fodder coach like me can describe it and coach it (I do), coaches at that high level cannot? Of course they can. They just have their own way, which is fine, but unless it brings entertaining football and results, its not good enough.
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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by jibers on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:58 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:I know what you should do:

After the world cup, you should bring in Van Gaal for a season or two.
A short shock dose of van Gaal does wonders for the generation of young players, it did so for us.

But after 2 years at the most he has to go as he is an irritating prick..

World football should put together resources and funding for the quest to find a solution to clone van Gaal. He needs to be there forever so every top club can use him once in a while to overhaul their teams with youth players.
#


Or accept that the Barcelona under pep will never be seen again and move on? People need to get their heads out of this philosophy BS tbh

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by jibers on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:59 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@jibers wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:Nah thats not true at all. Why wouldnt they be able to pass out of pressure? You dont need anything but a plan and composure, skill and technique for that...your telling me thats what we lack?

We couldnt pass out of pressure of Bayern and Madrid because we dont follow our philosphy at all. We didnt create midfield rotation, we didnt advance the fullbacks, we didnt form 3 at the back...stark different from before.

Also, in those games we didnt pressure back so we only won and therefore only retained the ball at the back, therefore not relieving any tension on the back 4.
Dani people have to accept that all that is over, that was Pep's tactics. Even the positional play has dissappeared, that ridiculous pressure was Peps as well, people saying Barcelona should play like before really need to get a grip, they never will because the coach in no longer there. Although I'm not sure what Tata is playing at.
Jibbers, like I said before, Pep's ideas or not, its irrelevant to weather they can be followed or not.

You think, some fodder coach like me can describe it and coach it (I do), coaches at that high level cannot? Of course they can. They just have their own way, which is fine, but unless it brings entertaining football and results, its not good enough.
Yea but Dani, do you want Barcelona to play like before? So you just want attacking football? Not sure what Tata is doing tbh. The long balls dont even make sense. Entertaining? Some people found Barca under Pep boring, not everyone will be happy.


Last edited by jibers on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by The Franchise on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:59 pm

@futbol wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
@futbol wrote:We are hoofing it more because the players can't counter press and patiently build from the back as they used to anymore. I thought that became abundantly clear when Real Madrid, Bayern and Brazil all outpressed the Barca midfield in the same season.
Nah thats not true at all. Why wouldnt they be able to pass out of pressure? You dont need anything but a plan and composure, skill and technique for that...your telling me thats what we lack?

We couldnt pass out of pressure of Bayern and Madrid because we dont follow our philosphy at all. We didnt create midfield rotation, we didnt advance the fullbacks, we didnt form 3 at the back...stark different from before.

Also, in those games we didnt pressure back so we only won and therefore only retained the ball at the back, therefore not relieving any tension on the back 4.
You need intensity. Something we don't have anymore. You talk about "midfield rotation" as if those kind of positional changes in a high complex pressing system don't require physical and mental sharpness. 2 things players like Xavi and Iniesta don't have anymore. Xavi has played as many European games as Giggs at 33. Giggs is 40. Any elite team with technical players would press like prime Barca if it was as simple as you portray it with fullback positioning + composure + midfield rotation.
Dont make it more complicated than it is. Juventus have midfield rotation lol

First of all, separate passing out from the back and pressing. Those are two separate things.

You cant claim passing out from the back requires physical skills we no longer possess.
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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by The Franchise on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:02 pm

@jibers wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
@jibers wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:Nah thats not true at all. Why wouldnt they be able to pass out of pressure? You dont need anything but a plan and composure, skill and technique for that...your telling me thats what we lack?

We couldnt pass out of pressure of Bayern and Madrid because we dont follow our philosphy at all. We didnt create midfield rotation, we didnt advance the fullbacks, we didnt form 3 at the back...stark different from before.

Also, in those games we didnt pressure back so we only won and therefore only retained the ball at the back, therefore not relieving any tension on the back 4.
Dani people have to accept that all that is over, that was Pep's tactics. Even the positional play has dissappeared, that ridiculous pressure was Peps as well, people saying Barcelona should play like before really need to get a grip, they never will because the coach in no longer there. Although I'm not sure what Tata is playing at.
Jibbers, like I said before, Pep's ideas or not, its irrelevant to weather they can be followed or not.

You think, some fodder coach like me can describe it and coach it (I do), coaches at that high level cannot? Of course they can. They just have their own way, which is fine, but unless it brings entertaining football and results, its not good enough.
Yea but Dani, do you want Barcelona to play like before? So you just want attacking football? Not sure what Tata is doing tbh. The long balls dont even make sense
No, I want Barca to play a style of football which makes sense to the personale we have.

Long balls at the first sign of high pressing is not one which makes sense, because we arent going to win the high % of 2nd balls.

As Free said, we are hoofing against open teams but playing "tiki taka" vs park the bus ones. How does that make any sense?

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by The Franchise on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:03 pm

Nah, the only people who found Pep's football boring were not Barca fans. Who gives a shit what they think? I dont.
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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by Collblanc on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:03 pm

At Ajax and today I didn't see barca playing, you know this is not just a sports club. Barca is, with other things, what makes us proud to be Catalan, we can brag about having the best team in the world and the players should fight for that, they should be proud to wear the best logo in the world, hear our club song at every game and fight for our place in the world and the independent of catalunya. Guardiola knew this, and felt like this now we have a argentine with other ideas who plays this like a regular club. I don't care about status of players, I want barca to be number 1 with our best players and beat the evil in every league, break all their records and shove it all up their ass.
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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:04 pm

@The Franchise wrote:

You cant claim passing out from the back requires physical skills we no longer possess.
I think the words were "physical and mental sharpness", and you do need these if you want to pass out of the back while being pressed.

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by jibers on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:04 pm

TBH you can tell the tyoe of Coach Tata is. He is not playing to the players strengths. You can't have Xavi and be using long balls. Prime example of making a mf look irrelevant.

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:05 pm

@Collblanc wrote:At Ajax and today I didn't see barca playing, you know this is not just a sports club. Barca is, with other things, what makes us proud to be Catalan, we can brag about having the best team in the world and the players should fight for that, they should be proud to wear the best logo in the world, hear our club song at every game and fight for our place in the world and the independent of catalunya. Guardiola knew this, and felt like this  now we have a argentine with other ideas who plays this like a regular club. I don't care about status of players, I want barca to be number 1 with our best players and beat the evil in every league, break all their records and shove it all up their ass.
and I want a pony, please

oh no wait, we've got Pep, that's much better. He's now fighting for independent catalunya in the free state of bavaria..

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by futbol on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:08 pm

Passing out from the back with Alves, Abidal and Valdes is a different ball game than passing out from the back with Pinto, Montoya and Adriano though.

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by The Franchise on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:08 pm

Look, the point is, the players are very capable of passing the ball from defence to midfield.

Pressing, covering distances, overall physical level and overall motivation of certain members...you can question all day long.

But the ability to position yourself, move in a timely fashion based on where the ball moves and the skill, technique, awareness, vision and decision making are not things we struggle with.
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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:08 pm

@Collblanc wrote:At Ajax and today I didn't see barca playing, you know this is not just a sports club. Barca is, with other things, what makes us proud to be Catalan, we can brag about having the best team in the world and the players should fight for that, they should be proud to wear the best logo in the world, hear our club song at every game and fight for our place in the world and the independent of catalunya. Guardiola knew this, and felt like this  now we have a argentine with other ideas who plays this like a regular club. I don't care about status of players, I want barca to be number 1 with our best players and beat the evil in every league, break all their records and shove it all up their ass.
:bow:

@jibers wrote:TBH you can tell the tyoe of Coach Tata is. He is not playing to the players strengths. You can't have Xavi and be using long balls. Prime example of making a mf look irrelevant.
Agreed. But the second problem is that right now you CAN'T have Xavi startin every game (specially after coming after injury) and Tata start hims always.

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by The Franchise on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:09 pm

@futbol wrote:Passing out from the back with Alves, Abidal and Valdes is a different ball game than passing out from the back with Pinto, Montoya and Adriano though.
No argument there.

But its not only the personale either, we have been instructed to play "safer".
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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by poxlu on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:10 pm

How Messi came from bench and scored this Atlhetic Bilbao team when barca were 0-1 down last season



This time Messi was not found on bench


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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:11 pm

tata is a funny looking little man, by the way. can't help but like him.

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:15 pm

And Tata saying our first half was one of the best of the season (our first half wasn't that bad, but definitely not good).

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by Khaled on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:17 pm

LOL at sacking Tata #overreacting




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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by The Franchise on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:19 pm

TBH Free is 100% right, its not overreacting at all.

IF he does do those things, we cant have a successful season.
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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by jibers on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:26 pm

@poxlu wrote:How Messi came from bench and scored this Atlhetic Bilbao team when barca were 0-1 down last season



This time Messi was not found on bench

lol

Neymar's finishing is...

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by free_cat on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:26 pm

Sleeping pill and off to bed, otherwise I won't be able to sleep until 3 am tonight.

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by jibers on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:34 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Collblanc wrote:At Ajax and today I didn't see barca playing, you know this is not just a sports club. Barca is, with other things, what makes us proud to be Catalan, we can brag about having the best team in the world and the players should fight for that, they should be proud to wear the best logo in the world, hear our club song at every game and fight for our place in the world and the independent of catalunya. Guardiola knew this, and felt like this  now we have a argentine with other ideas who plays this like a regular club. I don't care about status of players, I want barca to be number 1 with our best players and beat the evil in every league, break all their records and shove it all up their ass.
and I want a pony, please

oh no wait, we've got Pep, that's much better. He's now fighting for independent catalunya in the free state of bavaria..
lol

Do you ever post in the bayern section dude?

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Re: Barcelona - Athletic 21:00 CET

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:45 pm

on the other hand, one defeat in 15 games, well... clearly you should fire your coach lol

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