Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by The Franchise on Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:20 pm

Our movement off the ball was putrid at times. Most of the game in fact, minus the last 10-15 minutes.

Alexis and Pedro didnt come inside and allow the fullbacks to overlap. They stood there and watched if they couldnt get the ball in behind on a more direct move.

No runs from deep from Cesc, which is very costly because he is incapable of dribbling anybody. Messi doesnt move anywhere, even in a 2m he wont sprint towards the ball making himself an easier midfield target.

Missed Neymar and as already mentioned, missed another midfielder.

All that being said, still had chances to win the game which were not taken. Their goalie had a very good game in fairness.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by Arquitescu on Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:13 am

Watched quite a bit of the game, before Milan started.

What stood out was the complete lack of movement from FCB, which eventually was deduced into poor use of width and predictable play in the final third. Messi's off the ball movement is non-existent, as is the prospect of passing to him when others are in superior positions. Seems as if no matter what the width, Messi will be passed to by default, compromising the build-up play and resulting in Levante simply crowding him out. He had a poor game.

-Busquets has probably had the worst game of his season.
-Pique was superb once again. This needs to continue.
-Montoya is average. I've said this many times.
-Pedro's responsibility was to produce what Neymar does and not his own unique requisites. It was not congruent to the play.
-Fabregas was awful. I cannot understand his role or what he was attempting to do.
-Xavi was your best player by a long distance. Transitioned the midfield well and consistently provided the urgency needed that was lacked, but sadly for Barca, it was squandered in the final 3rd.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by futbol on Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:34 am

@The Franchise wrote:Our movement off the ball was putrid at times.

@Arquitescu wrote:

What stood out was the complete lack of movement from FCB, which eventually was deduced into poor use of width and predictable play in the final third.

This happens every time around this time of the year. The general explanation then always is the same. That the training regimen is being intensified after the winter break to condition the team for February - May. In return we suffer in January => players are tired => lack of movement.

Credit to Levante though. At home they make it this hard for Barca and Madrid every year. We deserved this after trashing them 7-0 at the beginning of the season tbh. Proud

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by M99 on Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:01 am

No Neymar, no party :coffee:

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by jugster on Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:31 am

Tata Martino was not worried by the draw today. They tried their utmost, but didn't win. On most days, they would've won.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by free_cat on Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:29 am

I agree with him, I think we played well, I recognized our team and the way we played unlike until Athletic's game. Keylor Navas saves and Xavi's horrible miss were the reason we didn't win.

However, it is to worry that we concede a lot of set pieces, much more than in previous seasons. We should go back to zonal marking and play Bartra who is much better in the air than Mascherano. (not that it was Mascherano's fault at all, he had a good game).

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by the xcx on Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:46 pm

You guys are too hard on yourselves, it was a great match I reckon.
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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by alexjanosik on Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:53 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Our movement off the ball was putrid at times. Most of the game in fact, minus the last 10-15 minutes.

Alexis and Pedro didnt come inside and allow the fullbacks to overlap. They stood there and watched if they couldnt get the ball in behind on a more direct move.

No runs from deep from Cesc, which is very costly because he is incapable of dribbling anybody. Messi doesnt move anywhere, even in a 2m he wont sprint towards the ball making himself an easier midfield target.

Missed Neymar and as already mentioned, missed another midfielder.

All that being said, still had chances to win the game which were not taken. Their goalie had a very good game in fairness.

I have been banging my head about thhis for 2 years now.Messi is now a clear liability off the ball.And I dont mean defensively.I have come to accept the fact that he considers it beneath him to help the team out defensively.I am talking about when when we have the ball and he is standing about waiting for the ball to feet.
His lack of movement hinders our play and it forces everyone else to play to accomodate his laziness.Messi's lack of movement hindres the movement and positional play of the entire team.How many times did our fullbacks get in behind looking to pass only to find our superstar lazily standing outside the D.Not once did he make a run into the box.And in a game where he should have stayed up,he kept coming deep to collect the ball.He should have been smart and stayed up and in between the lines.He should have kept moving trusting that our midfield would eventually get him the ball.Instead he kept coming deep.Now he had 2 lines of 4 in front of him instead of 1. And he kept losing the ball when he came deep.
A clear liability liability off the ball and offers no movement whatsoever.Hinders our team's play.If he cant improve in this aspect then he can kindly leave.

And what the hell was Cesc doing throwing a tantrum and pouting on the bench when substituted.Granted the sub was wrong and Roberto shouldnt have been brought on but still you dont react like that.He makes it hard for people to like him.He can learn a thing or two from Xavi.Substituted 2 min after Fab by Dongou of all players,Xavi took it like the champion pro and leader of the team that he is.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by alexjanosik on Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:56 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Our movement off the ball was putrid at times. Most of the game in fact, minus the last 10-15 minutes.

Alexis and Pedro didnt come inside and allow the fullbacks to overlap. They stood there and watched if they couldnt get the ball in behind on a more direct move.

No runs from deep from Cesc, which is very costly because he is incapable of dribbling anybody. Messi doesnt move anywhere, even in a 2m he wont sprint towards the ball making himself an easier midfield target.

Missed Neymar and as already mentioned, missed another midfielder.

All that being said, still had chances to win the game which were not taken. Their goalie had a very good game in fairness.

I have been banging my head about thhis for 2 years now.Messi is now a clear liability off the ball.And I dont mean defensively.I have come to accept the fact that he considers it beneath him to help the team out defensively.I am talking about when when we have the ball and he is standing about waiting for the ball to feet.
His lack of movement hinders our play and it forces everyone else to play to accomodate his laziness.Messi's lack of movement hindres the movement and positional play of the entire team.How many times did our fullbacks get in behind looking to pass only to find our superstar lazily standing outside the D.Not once did he make a run into the box.And in a game where he should have stayed up,he kept coming deep to collect the ball.He should have been smart and stayed up and in between the lines.He should have kept moving trusting that our midfield would eventually get him the ball.Instead he kept coming deep.Now he had 2 lines of 4 in front of him instead of 1. And he kept losing the ball when he came deep.
A clear liability liability off the ball and offers no movement whatsoever.Hinders our team's play.If he cant improve in this aspect then he can kindly leave.

And what the hell was Cesc doing throwing a tantrum and pouting on the bench when substituted.Granted the sub was wrong and Roberto shouldnt have been brought on but still you dont react like that.He makes it hard for people to like him.He can learn a thing or two from Xavi.Substituted 2 min after Fab by Dongou of all players,Xavi took it like the champion pro and leader of the team that he is.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by Valkyrja on Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:16 pm

What surprised me was Messi's lack of fire, which had been shown in the 2 games before. After so much time not playing, I was expecting sth else.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by The Franchise on Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:11 am

@alexjanosik wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:Our movement off the ball was putrid at times. Most of the game in fact, minus the last 10-15 minutes.

Alexis and Pedro didnt come inside and allow the fullbacks to overlap. They stood there and watched if they couldnt get the ball in behind on a more direct move.

No runs from deep from Cesc, which is very costly because he is incapable of dribbling anybody. Messi doesnt move anywhere, even in a 2m he wont sprint towards the ball making himself an easier midfield target.

Missed Neymar and as already mentioned, missed another midfielder.

All that being said, still had chances to win the game which were not taken. Their goalie had a very good game in fairness.

I have been banging my head about thhis for 2 years now.Messi is now a clear liability off the ball.And I dont mean defensively.I have come to accept the fact that he considers it beneath him to help the team out defensively.I am talking about when when we have the ball and he is standing about waiting for the ball to feet.
His lack of movement hinders our play and it forces everyone else to play to accomodate his laziness.Messi's lack of movement hindres the movement and positional play of the entire team.How many times did our fullbacks get in behind looking to pass only to find our superstar lazily standing  outside the D.Not once did he make a run into the box.And in a game where he should have stayed up,he kept coming deep to collect the ball.He should have been smart and stayed up and in between the lines.He should have kept moving trusting that our midfield would eventually get him the ball.Instead he kept coming deep.Now he had 2 lines of 4 in front of him instead of 1. And he kept losing the ball when he came deep.
A clear liability liability off the ball and offers no movement whatsoever.Hinders our team's play.If he cant improve in this aspect then he can kindly leave.

And what the hell was Cesc doing throwing a tantrum and pouting on the bench when substituted.Granted the sub was wrong and Roberto shouldnt have been brought on but still you dont react like that.He makes it hard for people to like him.He can learn a thing or two from Xavi.Substituted 2 min after Fab by Dongou of all players,Xavi took it like the champion pro and leader of the team that he is.

I think Messi either is or wants to be a old school 10 now.

He wont to do anything dynamic unless he has the ball already at his feet.

I would say maybe we should buy a striker, but that only takes another number away from an already immobile midfield. Maybe if said striker had Tevez/Suarez/Etoo work rate it could work, but again who in midfield is coming out? Iniesta and Busquets deep doesnt sound good to me...and Cesc with anyone sounds horrific.

And on a separate point, the continual disrespect of Xavi is going too far. I think people are talking out of their ass, as if they never played football before, with some of the comments.

Xavi is too safe and negative? You honestly believe Xavi is seeing open passes forward and not playing them in favour of non penetrative balls? Nonesense that is.

If players are not open in front of him, outnumbered (as they always are against parked bus) and not moving into space....obviously he isnt going to attempt that pass when the chances of making it is so low.

This is not negative, its called not being stupid. Giving the ball away and setting up Levante counter attacks isnt going to win us any game.

He (well the team as a whole really) should be moving the ball side to side, across the pitch at speed. Looking to make the midfield and defence cover the width of the pitch. The idea is, the ball moves faster than anyone can run so if the ball moves across fast and you have width, eventually a space will appear to pass forward into. Give me that over aimless and hopeful chipped balls into the box or pointless crosses any day.
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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:41 am

@futbol wrote:This happens every time around this time of the year. The general explanation then always is the same. That the training regimen is being intensified after the winter break to condition the team for February - May. In return we suffer in January => players are tired => lack of movement.

Credit to Levante though. At home they make it this hard for Barca and Madrid every year. We deserved this after trashing them 7-0 at the beginning of the season tbh. Proud
Good point, but given that Martino has brought his own people in this department how do we know that they are following the same conditioning schedule as Pep did?

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by CBarca on Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:21 am

Xavi actually had a couple decent passes...I'm not sure how many others we actually achieved. I remember specifically this beautiful pass to Montoya that, with a better ball across the box, should have resulted in a goal. Montoya had several chances to either shoot or fizz the ball across, but he failed in that department. He's like Alba but he doesn't have end product. Useless.

Won't be sad to see him gone. Tello too, even if he had a nice shot where the Levante GK had to make a great save.

We missed Iniesta and Neymar this game. If there isn't going to be as much individual movement that lead to us thrashing Levante by 6 goals earlier this season, then we need the individual brilliance from somewhere. Messi wasn't able to offer it this game and neither was anybody else apparently. That's not the solution though, the solution should be better movement.

Whether it's fatigue or not I don't know. I'll take the draw if we don't have any more performances like this. Almost everybody was fairly poor. Alexis struggles hard when he isn't given space.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by futbol on Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:32 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@futbol wrote:This happens every time around this time of the year. The general explanation then always is the same. That the training regimen is being intensified after the winter break to condition the team for February - May. In return we suffer in January => players are tired => lack of movement.

Credit to Levante though. At home they make it this hard for Barca and Madrid every year. We deserved this after trashing them 7-0 at the beginning of the season tbh. Proud
Good point, but given that Martino has brought his own people in this department how do we know that they are following the same conditioning schedule as Pep did?

In fairness, we don't. But I imagine Tata didn't come in and changed basic stuff like the pre-installed fitness schedule big time in his first season.

Anyway. I'd like to add something to this point:

@The Franchise wrote:The idea is, the ball moves faster than anyone can run so if the ball moves across fast and you have width, eventually a space will appear to pass forward into.

People can laugh about Xavi's renowned pitch excuses all they want. But most La Liga pitches are in really awful state. I don't know if in addition most teams also stop cutting and watering the grass before Barcelona arrives since Mourinho laid the blueprint for it but it's hindering our passing game. We look much slower in away games which gives the opponents (especially PTB teams) enough time to close down all the gaps at the back. I see no other reason except the state of the pitch for this phenomenon. Play the game in Camp Nou - Levante can bring 99000 people and fill the stadium with their own fans - and I don't believe for a second they can defend this well nor will our passing look this slow. We never play like we did in this game in Camp Nou and it's certainly not because of the atmosphere of Camp Nou, a stadium filled with tourists.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by futbol on Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:37 pm

BANG. Exactly what I thought:

Martino: "The plan is for the players to be fit in the last stage of the season, no result will change that idea."

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:44 pm

I think he's talking about rotations, not the training regime.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by jugster on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:02 am

Tactical Analysis: Barcelona undone by Levante playmakers in defence.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by The Franchise on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:03 am

blocked already?
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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by RealGunner on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:20 am

ffs click on the link. It says watch it on the site itself

dani pls

stay safe
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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by The Franchise on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:38 am

Aint nobody got time fo dat.
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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 am

One of these days I'm going to have to rewatch some 2010/11 matches because you guys make it sound like Messi was always pressing and making incisive runs, but I'm pretty sure he conserved energy and 'walked' most of the time then as he does now.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by The Franchise on Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:11 am

Pretty sure we was complaing about Messi even then, its just gotten worse. He wasnt always running around at all but there were a number of things he did which I loved about his game.

-He at least made a legit and honest attempt to win the ball from a defender in close proximity. Instead of standing or walking in the general direction of the ball.

-If he made a bad pass or lost a dribble, he often took it personally and sprinted forward in the direction of that mistake.

-If our midfielder has the ball, especially if they are in trouble and pressured, he made a 2-3m change of speed toward the ball to make it easier. Vs Levante, he stood in an imaginary 2m box and walked within that.

-He always ran full speed into the box when the ball was in a dangerous crossing position. Perhaps he will still do this, but my comments about him not doing it was purely based on the weekend game which he didnt do.

-Not in 2010, but earlier to that (especially on the wing) he made runs away from the ball, opening up a better angle.

Did we all not laud about how he is a revolutionary player, built for the false 9 position because he is a creator and scorer in one? How he made plays on the edge of the box, contribute to the game and still get into goalscoring positions?

Vs Levante, he was not that and it wasnt the first time. He looked like a 10 from the early 90's, not the revolutionary and transcendent player was referred to.
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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by CBarca on Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:06 am

Not to distract from the conversation of Messi, but on the subject of Montoya, is my memory bad that I remember him being a decent prospect and putting in some good performances as a back up to Alves. I mean, we all knew he would never be Alves, but I at least had suspected him to be a good back up and perhaps when Alves got old enough he would be mature enough and have gained enough experience to be a good replacement for us.

I feel like he's not only stagnated since then, but regressed...by quite a lot. His best skill seems to be overlapping runs and even those aren't even helpful anymore because whenever he receives the ball it takes him a couple light years before he makes a decision.

Lower-mid table La Liga player right now at best.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by Donuts on Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:14 am

early last year montoya impressed me, I didn't expect him to be world class top 3 RB's or anything.
held his ground against Madrid, and other big opponents..
these days he has barely done anything.. the only good thing that comes from him are runs that get us no where, empty shots bad passes and meh defending.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:25 am

@The Franchise wrote:Pretty sure we was complaing about Messi even then, its just gotten worse. He wasnt always running around at all but there were a number of things he did which I loved about his game.

-He at least made a legit and honest attempt to win the ball from a defender in close proximity. Instead of standing or walking in the general direction of the ball.

-If he made a bad pass or lost a dribble, he often took it personally and sprinted forward in the direction of that mistake.

-If our midfielder has the ball, especially if they are in trouble and pressured, he made a 2-3m change of speed toward the ball to make it easier. Vs Levante, he stood in an imaginary 2m box and walked within that.

-He always ran full speed into the box when the ball was in a dangerous crossing position. Perhaps he will still do this, but my comments about him not doing it was purely based on the weekend game which he didnt do.

-Not in 2010, but earlier to that (especially on the wing) he made runs away from the ball, opening up a better angle.

Did we all not laud about how he is a revolutionary player, built for the false 9 position because he is a creator and scorer in one? How he made plays on the edge of the box, contribute to the game and still get into goalscoring positions?

Vs Levante, he was not that and it wasnt the first time. He looked like a 10 from the early 90's, not the revolutionary and transcendent player was referred to.
Yeah don't really disagree with that. His performance vs Levante reminded me of his WC match vs Germany, essentially spent at the halfway line. The oldschool 10 comparison is apt. But I just wanted to emphasize that Messi was never the player to run continuously for the entire match.

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Re: Levante - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 20 | Sat Jan 19th, 2013

Post by futbol on Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:39 am

@CBarca wrote:whenever he receives the ball it takes him a couple light years before he makes a decision.

Light year is a measurement for distance, not time. banana 

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