All about Mesut Özil

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Dnmac4 on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:10 am

@Le Samourai wrote:How did this become about Wilshere? He was the only Arsenal player who gave a shit today, and some of the criticisms are absurd. Wilshere pushes the ball just like Ozil should be pushing the ball. Have you ever watched a premier league game in your life? Pushing the ball is pretty much the most effective thing you can do in the league.

Period.

Then you'll come in here and call Yaya the best player in the league. What a load of rubbish.

Anyway, Ozil is not doing some things he's quite capable of doing, and it's pretty much down to either laziness or fatigue. Go back and watch Arsenal's home game against Liverpool, the speed Arsenal were playing at was immense,  Now Arsenal are slower, and that's a direct result of Ozil being worse (save me the Ramsey nonsense) He needs a rest and an Wenger needs to get mad at him.

LOL, you really have no point.

Yes, Yaya IMO is the best overall player in the EPL, he was also voted the best player on the African Continent (It's a big place with a lot of really good footballers) a couple years running now.

I've watched Yaya play almost every position on the field during his career and shut out the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez in a CL final playing as a defender. Horsing midfield's as a DM and playing sublime football as an attacking midfielder. I really don't know who is a better and more complete footballer than Yaya in the EPL so again I have no idea what your point is.

If your comparing Jack to Yaya like some Arsenal fans tried doing a couple years ago(they actually said he was better than him), just stop, step away from the keyboard and try to get some kind of rational brainwave's going on in your head.

It's about Wilshere because "Big Game Jack" has a horrible scoring and assist record and turns the ball over more than Ozil not to mention almost everything the poster critisized Ozil for can be said about Jack and it's even worse in his case, but you got me, he does hustle more than Ozil which was never Ozil's game in the first place so why anyone would expect it is really mind boggling.

It's turned into a decent sized portion of Arsenal fans scapegoating the likes of Cazorla or now Ozil but Jack skates on having accomplished nothing, consistently not showing up in big games and having one of the worst conversion ratio's of a player in his position that's supposed to be a great player I have ever seen.

I mean you are actually sitting here acting like Jack had a good game today, the game was over in 20 minutes. The whole team played bad, and no one in midfield played well they could have given up 6 goals in like 15 minutes. There was no resistance what so ever from anyone yet it's Ozil being singled out in this thread like he played not only bad today but has been bad all year.

I mean Ozil will probably finish the year with around 8-10 goals and 12-15 Assists in the EPL. Jacks's best year ever is 1 goal and 3 assists in an EPL season. But Ozil is the scapegoat, and Jack is big game Jack. It's insane.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by McLewis on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:07 am

Think Dani and Jay got it spot on here. Oezil is not the problem here. When you buy a player for the amount of money Arsenal did, you should be building a team around him. It's honestly common knowledge that true, traditional #10s need runner ahead of them, not around them. I saw absolutely no forward runs being made with consistency from Arsenal today and yet I saw it for days with Liverpool. That was the big difference between the 2 for me and why Oezil was so ineffective.

Give him targets to hit with his exquisite passing and he'll carve open defenses as we've seen him do so many times when he's on form. An immobile, triple marked Giroud just ain't gonna cut it.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Lex on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:13 am

Remember when Ozil set Walcott up for a (failed) hat-trick vs some team earlier in the season? All through balls to a full speed Walcott running around the defence.....


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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by B-Mac on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:21 am

@Toffer Harley wrote:
@B-Mac wrote:
@Toffer Harley wrote:

thanks sherlock, and that's also where pretty much all similarities end. standing in the garage doesn't make you a car.

ya except a person standing in garage is not the same thing at all, these are both footballers playing the same position.....terrible analogy there sherlock

rooney clearly represents more of a SS than a classic playmaker. as of now, he is also assisting goals but that still doesn't make him the type of player like oscar, özil, silva and the like. so if you wanna look strictly at the label that is assigned to the one in the hole behind the 9, than that would be the 10. are they acting the same way for every team? of course not, so just go and watch hockey.

why so I can have greater knowledge of 2 sports then you? Laughing you're a tool with your stereotyping comment, you're maturity levels are clearly high....

I never said they were the same type of player, you just made the assumption I did, I said they played the same position....Rooney is the more complete player hence the Rooney>>>Ozil in my original post.....and SS I don't know many SS that spend there time collecting the ball from the half way line 75% of the game you clearly have watched a ton of United games the past 3 seasons....., but you just keep going on making assumptions and looking like a fool Laughing


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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Onyx on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:23 am

As said plenty of times already, Ozil isn't a B2B player. He's an AM and AM's aren't meant to be going B2B. 2 banks of 4 with the 2 CM's and wingers is enough for defending.

I think maybe some fans might prefer someone like Fabregas in midfield. He's more of a leader and offers more, however he isn't as good technically as Ozil is.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:24 am

@Toffer Harley wrote:
@B-Mac wrote:
@Toffer Harley wrote:yea, cauz they are so similar..

positionally they are both #10's...

thanks sherlock, and that's also where pretty much all similarities end. standing in the garage doesn't make you a car.



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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by guest_07 on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:29 am

sometime lazy player contribute more than the most hardworking player in the team

see riquelme (always been the best contributor in his team, either boca, villlarreal, argentina, even though he was the laziest one)

key word: contribution


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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Red Alert on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:42 am

Best player in the league.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Red Alert on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:02 am

On a serious note, I'm in the belief that he's a world class talent, but not a world class footballer. Talent can only take you so far.

He really needs Ramsey back ASAP. He's only had 2 assists and no goals in his last 8 games... that's a worry not only for his own personal form, but Arsenal's form as well.  

I'm not sure if he's lazy, either. I think he just struggles to keep up his fitness levels and thus has limited impact on the game because of it.

Arsenal invested quite a bit of cash on him, and I think they need to build the team around him rather than make him someone he's not. Ozil is really good when on the ball, but he's average at best without it. He has a dead eye for a pass, but he lacks general tactical knowledge of the game. He needs someone to cover him, Arsenal really missed Flamini last night, and they also missed Aaron Ramsey. Ramsey's most underrated trait was him covering the space Ozil left isolated. He's not so underrated trait, and well his role in the team, was to give that running option that Ozil could slide a pass into and open up the game for Arsenal. No one's making those runs anymore. And it doesn't help that Walcott's out for the season, either.

Arsenal bought Ozil to break down the "smaller teams" with his creativity, as well as to give Arsenal a major boost in the summer. So in a way, he did improve Arsenal. (Still personally believe it was a panic buy because Arsene missed out on Rooney, Suarez rofl, and Higgy.) But he wasn't a "major" signing for them. Yes, he cost a lot, but he wasn't exactly what they needed. They needed a Suarez. If Giroud was half the player Suarez was, Arsenal would of ran off with the league right now as they would of won extra points when Chelsea/City were adapting to Mourinho/Pellegrini respectively. Instead, they seeked to improve a set position that wasn't a problem.

Arsene has a lot to do from now until the summer. I think he has to drop Ozil for a couple of games to get his head back into the game, because he's really not been himself lately. Cazorla can play the same role just as good, if not better right now, as Santi has an understanding with Poldi (why do I get the feeling he's being frozen out ffs?) and links up with Giroud better. Ozil then should come back, refreshed, as I don't think he's playing at 100% right now. He'd then start linking up with Ramsey and as a whole, Arsenal, in their case atleast, can hopefully overcome the mental problem they've had in past seasons with their 'second half syndrome'. And what better way to do test their mental character with the fixtures they have in February alone. Very Happy I think March for them is quite hard too. [Although, it was the opposite last season, where they started slowly in the first half of the season (the Merseyside syndrome Very Happy) and finished top 4 from their second half form.]
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by BarcaLearning on Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:24 am

He was amazing for Real though, and for Germany. He is WC thats fore sure, probably just not suitable for Arsenal's style and not gel with his teammates. Linking up with Giroud firstly probably isnt the best his they are just completely different players...

This really says something about Wenger vs Mou as well, Wenger is overrated just another sign?

Anyone else got an opiniong WHY hes not playing well?
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by BarcaLearning on Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:27 am

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:
@Toffer Harley wrote:
@B-Mac wrote:

positionally they are both #10's...

thanks sherlock, and that's also where pretty much all similarities end. standing in the garage doesn't make you a car.



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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Red Alert on Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:50 am

@BarcaLearning wrote:He was amazing for Real though, and for Germany. He is WC thats fore sure, probably just not suitable for Arsenal's style and not gel with his teammates. Linking up with Giroud firstly probably isnt the best his they are just completely different players...

This really says something about Wenger vs Mou as well, Wenger is overrated just another sign?

Anyone else got an opiniong WHY hes not playing well?

Again, he's a world class talent, not footballer.

Ozil lacks bottle. He HAS to play his way or he's going to look disinterested, and just ineffective.

At Real, they played through Ozil to get the ball to Di Maria / Ronaldo asap. At Arsenal, that's not the case. He's just another playmaker there.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by BarcaLearning on Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:55 am

Yep I read up all the posts above, got it.... I think also this game just highlighted the problem with the way Liverpool playing so well, Ozil just couldnt handle the tempo and not linking with anyone or abel to link with him hence the performance.

Wenger did make that riple sub and it improved a lot Arsenal's play. I guess all the damage was done in the first 20 mins.

Anyway, Arsenals is still Arsenal, and OZil still Ozil, not as a big problem as it seems I think, especially once the injured players come back. Defending set pieces was not acceptable though.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Adit on Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:04 am

Ozil is world class player and best 10 in the world with out a second thought. He has amazing final ball delivery and vision...doesnt really misplace any passes either despite making many through balls. Its donkey's like Giroud being played infront him is the problem...when walcott and Ramsey were playing and making runs, Ozil was assisting for fun. Now they are both out and Wenger is playing with couple of playmakers at wings and giroud as the sole CF.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Red Alert on Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:10 am

He's not the best number 10 in the world, just stop. He's not even the best number 10 in England.

@BarcaLearning wrote:Yep I read up all the posts above, got it.... I think also this game just highlighted the problem with the way Liverpool playing so well, Ozil just couldnt handle the tempo and not linking with anyone or abel to link with him hence the performance.

Wenger did make that riple sub and it improved a lot Arsenal's play. I guess all the damage was done in the first 20 mins.

Anyway, Arsenals is still Arsenal, and OZil still Ozil, not as a big problem as it seems I think, especially once the injured players come back. Defending set pieces was not acceptable though.

Liverpool took the pedal off after the fifth, so I doubt it was the triple sub that was the reason Arsenal started to look more 'calm'.

Problem with Ozil is addressed in the post above.

He needs players with movement around him. Arsenal only really have 4 players that have good movement and 2 of those don't even play (Poldi/Rosiscky). The other 2 in Walcott and Ramsey? Injured.


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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by El Gunner on Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:44 am

I don't know if I didn't make it clear enough in the OP and in one of my responses to Hans, but I'll say it again. I am not blaming Özil for the Liverpool loss, nor am I singling him out as the only bad performer yesterday, nor am I using him as a scapegoat
Please read all my posts thoroughly in this thread. You can even just read the OP. My major, and only, point is I don't like the style of which Mesut Özil plays football.

In response to Dani. You say "he is a 10, what do I expect". Well does being a 10 require you not to work hard and put in a good shift game by game? I don't think so, not in the EPL. Not in the way that Arsenal play football.
See I was learned in my schoolboy years of playing football that a midfielder works most hardest on the pitch in terms of running. I was learned that when you're off the ball, you move in order to make yourself available for the ball. If you can't make a run in behind or drag opponents with you to make space for your teammates, you come to the ball. It's all about constant moving. And I've played everywhere in the midfield for my schools and academy in our town. Right wing, left wing, DM, B2B, AM (even SS). And our coaches always and I mean always drilled one most important thing into my head: constant motion and 100% effort. That is a midfielder, doesn't matter if you're job is to only receive the ball, wait for runners and put the ball through for them. Doesn't matter how good you are at doing that, that doesn't excuse you from not being absolutely determined, focused and giving 100% effort. I'm not trying to compare schoolboy football with professional football, the only point I'm trying to make here is that I was nurtured as a footballer that you give you're 100% best every game. And if you feel like you can't go anymore, you just dig in deeper. And tbf, that's what I do everytime I step onto a pitch, I'm always either suffering from cramp in the 2nd half or I'm absolutely knackered after a match. I consider effort and determination a high moral principle when playing football.

In response to the guy who brought Wilshere up in this thread. WTF are you doing? This isn't about Jack, nor about scapegoating Özil. Please just go above again in this post in see what my point is about.
And if you really want to bring Jack into this, then let's go to the main reason why I'm pissed with Özil and then compare him with Jack. Who puts in more effort in games, Jack or Özil? There you have it.

This thing about "what did you expect" I can't wrap my head around. Suddenly, it excuses you from not giving it your all on the pitch? And when people say Özil usually makes good passes all round throughout the game, have you watched all of our games this season. There were a few games in which he was so bad that he just couldn't seem to make a successful pass. Easy, simple passes he messes up sometimes. And then after he does that, he just strolls away, like I don't give a f*ck and then the opposition goes on the attack and then we're usually short on numbers at the back.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Lex on Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:47 am

Here we f*cking go. We lose one game since mid December and, suddenly, Liverpool are destined to finish above us, we're destined to sink to relegation misery, Ozil is a scrub and Wenger is overrated Laughing

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by El Gunner on Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:48 am

@Lex wrote:Here we f*cking go. We lose one game since mid December and, suddenly, Liverpool are destined to finish above us, we're destined to sink to relegation misery,  Ozil is a scrub and Wenger is overrated Laughing

The only way to get a bigger kneejerk is if a doctor hit you in the leg with a sledgehammer
Is this in response to me?

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Lex on Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:48 am

@Red Alert wrote:Again, he's a world class talent, not footballer.
What an absolute load of twoddle Laughing Pls jst stahp

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Lex on Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:49 am

@El Gunner wrote:
@Lex wrote:Here we f*cking go. We lose one game since mid December and, suddenly, Liverpool are destined to finish above us, we're destined to sink to relegation misery,  Ozil is a scrub and Wenger is overrated Laughing

The only way to get a bigger kneejerk is if a doctor hit you in the leg with a sledgehammer
Is this in response to me?
Nah, you just have bad timing lol

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Toffer Harley on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:57 am

@B-Mac wrote:
why so I can have greater knowledge of 2 sports then you? :lol:you're a tool with your stereotyping comment, you're maturity levels are clearly high....

I never said they were the same type of player, you just made the assumption I did, I said they played the same position....Rooney is the more complete player hence the Rooney>>>Ozil in my original post.....and SS I don't know many SS that spend there time collecting the ball from the half way line 75% of the game you clearly have watched a ton of United games the past 3 seasons....., but you just keep going on making assumptions and looking like a fool Laughing

thanks for clarifying what your insightful, and above all contextual, post was all a-boot. great to know that wayne gretzky is acting more complete in the only league he has played in all his life - and that not even by a huge margin if we go by sp. i also wouldn't have figured that he can't rely on fellaini to provide him with thiagoesque passing, so of course that makes him whatever your rigorous description fetish demands him to be.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Highburied on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:06 pm

@Adit wrote:Ozil is world class player and best 10 in the world with out a second thought. He has amazing final ball delivery and vision...doesnt really misplace any passes either despite making many through balls. Its donkey's like Giroud being played infront him is the problem...when walcott and Ramsey were playing and making runs, Ozil was assisting for fun. Now they are both out and Wenger is playing with couple of playmakers at wings and giroud as the sole CF.

Spot on.

We have a winner so close this bs thread now.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by The Franchise on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:21 pm

@El Gunner wrote:
In response to Dani. You say "he is a 10, what do I expect". Well does being a 10 require you not to work hard and put in a good shift game by game? I don't think so, not in the EPL. Not in the way that Arsenal play football.
See I was learned in my schoolboy years of playing football that a midfielder works most hardest on the pitch in terms of running. I was learned that when you're off the ball, you move in order to make yourself available for the ball. If you can't make a run in behind or drag opponents with you to make space for your teammates, you come to the ball. It's all about constant moving. And I've played everywhere in the midfield for my schools and academy in our town. Right wing, left wing, DM, B2B, AM (even SS). And our coaches always and I mean always drilled one most important thing into my head: constant motion and 100% effort. That is a midfielder, doesn't matter if you're job is to only receive the ball, wait for runners and put the ball through for them. Doesn't matter how good you are at doing that, that doesn't excuse you from not being absolutely determined, focused and giving 100% effort. I'm not trying to compare schoolboy football with professional football, the only point I'm trying to make here is that I was nurtured as a footballer that you give you're 100% best every game. And if you feel like you can't go anymore, you just dig in deeper. And tbf, that's what I do everytime I step onto a pitch, I'm always either suffering from cramp in the 2nd half or I'm absolutely knackered after a match. I consider effort and determination a high moral principle when playing football.
.

No it doesnt require you dont put in effort, but as I already said, he is who he is...and expecting something he has never done is strange to me. I dont care what league he is, isnt going to magically have more stamina and energy just because you think the league requires it.

I dont think he is a lazy player anyway so I disagree with that premise. He simply has poor natural stamina and seems to tire easily.

Forget what you learned in school, its not true. "A midfielder" is way too general a term. Busquets is a midfielder, but the more he runs, the bigger a problem it would be. Every position is different and every player's attributes and that dictates what they should be doing.

It not about "constant moving". I make efforts not to insult fellow coaches but I completely disagree with that theory. There are many coaches that will tell you actually (me being 1), to keep possession you need players standing fairly still. Go out and try it for yourself in the field. Get 5 players in a square and have them constantly moving and have them keep possession....then get 3 players who stand relatively still and 2 players who move and see which one is keeping the ball better. Maybe you will be surprised.

I consider effort and determination important moral principles, but your mistaking him lacking this for someone who just doesnt have great energy and stamina and never has, never will.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by danyjr on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:07 pm

@The Franchise wrote:No it doesnt require you dont put in effort, but as I already said, he is who he is...and expecting something he has never done is strange to me. I dont care what league he is, isnt going to magically have more stamina and energy just because you think the league requires it.

I dont think he is a lazy player anyway so I disagree with that premise. He simply has poor natural stamina and seems to tire easily.

Forget what you learned in school, its not true. "A midfielder" is way too general a term. Busquets is a midfielder, but the more he runs, the bigger a problem it would be. Every position is different and every player's attributes and that dictates what they should be doing.

It not about "constant moving". I make efforts not to insult fellow coaches but I completely disagree with that theory. There are many coaches that will tell you actually (me being 1), to keep possession you need players standing  fairly still. Go out and try it for yourself in the field. Get 5 players in a square and have them constantly moving and have them keep possession....then get 3 players who stand relatively still and 2 players who move and see which one is keeping the ball better. Maybe you will be surprised.

I consider effort and determination important moral principles, but your mistaking him lacking this for someone who just doesnt have great energy and stamina and never has, never will.
Very good post Thumbs up 

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by boyzis on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:09 pm

shshshshshshs

wat a load of shit ^

OZil is WorlD Class .. YES
Ronaldo is World Class .. YES

Ronaldo wont work as a defensive player and cant support his team play from mid field. he becomes active in the final third. similarly ozil doesnot work in three man arsenal mid field put him any where oppenents half and he will work his wonders.

A simple CAZORLA AND OZIL SWAP WOULD WORK WONDERS.


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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Chumlum on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:34 pm

So many disparaging comments about Özil in this thread make my brain's heart hurt.  No 
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

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