All about Mesut Özil

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Chumlum on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:34 pm

So many disparaging comments about Özil in this thread make my brain's heart hurt.  No 

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by urbaNRoots on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:48 pm

This thread  :brickwall: 

Can't wait for Ramsey coming back and Podolski, Chambo playing more often (players who run behind defences) and I'll gladly bump this thread and laugh at some of these replies. Or even better Özil at the World Cup, some are really going to get embarrassed Laughing
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Nishankly on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:53 pm

Ozil still should play better without Ramsey and Podolski etc, Surely being worth almost 50 million means that he doesnt depend on other players to do well. hmm
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by urbaNRoots on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:00 pm

Tell me one AM who plays with players who have no movement and is world class.

Don't be ridiculous.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by futbol on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:27 pm

Why are people talking about movement? He got dispossessed twice because he couldn't deal with Liverpool's pressure and it resulted in 2 Liverpool goals. The last thing I would criticize from his game yesterday was the lack of throughballs due to lack of movement upfront. He didn't even get the basics right to begin with. Arsenal improved once he came off. Wilshere looked far more lively in the second half.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by urbaNRoots on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:30 pm

Not only lack of through balls... movement doesn't only mean running behind a defence. Movement in, opening up space, getting in a position to receive a pass etc... it happened when we were pressed against Southampton, it happened again.

Anyway my next post in this thread will be a bunch of quotes and a LOL. Not biting anymore
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Art Morte on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:40 pm

Özil can make players around him better, but he also needs players around him to make him better. It's up to the manager to facilitate this and most of the time Wenger is getting it right, though not always.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by El Gunner on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:33 pm

Nishank wrote:Ozil still should play better without Ramsey and Podolski etc, Surely being worth almost 50 million means that he doesnt depend on other players to do well. hmm
 bounce 

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by The Franchise on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:53 pm

Nishank wrote:Ozil still should play better without Ramsey and Podolski etc,


Yes.

Surely being worth almost 50 million means that he doesnt depend on other players to do well. hmm

No. Every player depends on others, no exceptions.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:57 pm

Nishank wrote:Ozil still should play better without Ramsey and Podolski etc, Surely being worth almost 50 million means that he doesnt depend on other players to do well. hmm
Exactly. He was bought for that kind of money because he was considered 'world class'. And the last thing I know that 'world class' players can win games themselves on their own. Instead, he was a liability yesterday. Don't start me with 'he couldn't perform because he didn't have good players around him'. That's just horseshit. He wouldn't have been worth that money if he couldn't perform by himself.

If you guys think that having better players around with good movement and a mobile striker upfront only make him the player that he is, then if I was the manager, I wouldn't have spent 50 *bleep* millions on him.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by chad4401 on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:00 pm

Laughing since when paying 50 million=one man wrecking machine, ozil is WC chief

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Le Samourai on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:08 pm

Anyone fighting he is poor at the moment is just on the wrong side of the conversation. Anyone saying he has personal responsibility for raising Arsenal's game is similarly crazy.

He slumps around this time, and looks tired. At the same time, I feel like he should compensate for the lack of movement my coming deep and taking control of games. I think Wenger should put him on the right and force him to run at people. Whatever through balls do go through right now ain't going to anyone in particular and the distributive passes are similarly ineffective.

He could just help more with his dribbling right now.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by futbol on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:20 pm

He is a poacher-playmaker. People expecting him to get on the ball and take charge are crazy. He is world class at playing Hollywood balls in offensive transition, not at picking up the ball and dictating games. His deficiencies were already shown up against Bayern in 2012 - the game that should have ended his career - where you had the direct comparison with a modern AM in Kroos who could comfortably slot into a 3 man midfield and dominate whereas Özil, like a 90s #10, was waiting upfront to get the ball delivered to him on a platter so he could attempt his Hollywood balls. People buy too much into assist statistics. He is in the same boat as Mata.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Valkyrja on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:22 pm

Fußball wrote:He is a poacher-playmaker. People expecting him to get on the ball and take charge are crazy. He is world class at playing Hollywood balls in offensive transition, not at picking up the ball and dictating games. His deficiencies were already shown up against Bayern in 2012 - the game that should have ended his career - where you had the direct comparison with a modern AM in Kroos who could comfortably slot into a 3 man midfield and dominate whereas Özil, like a 90s #10, was waiting upfront to get the ball delivered to him on a platter so he could attempt his Hollywood balls. People buy too much into assist statistics. He is in the same boat as Mata.

Kroos ? the same guy who cost Germany the Euro ?

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by futbol on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:32 pm

Kroos didn't cost Germany anything. Löw's retard tactics did. He deviated from Germany's natural game and tried to contain Pirlo by playing an additional midfielder and Özil out wide. Going into a semi-final with a formation that was never ever trained like this before. Genius. I'm not even going to discuss Germany's horrendous defensive transition under Löw. Montolivo had like 10 seconds (needless to say from Özil's side with no one closing him down) to look up and play the ball to Balotelli with only Lahm at the back. Podolski, Gomez and Khedira starting with Reus, Götze and Gündogan on the bench was another masterstroke.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Valkyrja on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:40 pm

Kroos was pathetic in that match, slow, bad decision making and passing. didn't do anything for 90 minutes, needles too say the he pushed Ozil out of position, who was still, their best player, alongside Khedira and Reus

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Ganso on Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:08 pm

I dont know if in remember correctly, but Ozil played as AM and Kroos at LW.Ozil played mostly through the middle and sometimes went to flanks, which he always does.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Blue Barrett on Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:27 pm

Well, he's certainly no Oscar :coffee:

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by futbol on Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:31 pm

Go and download the match from Iniesta today if you want to see a true midfield master at work during a Tsunami in a hostile stadium while down 1 goal and under immense pressure from all sides because of the table position. The gulf in class is apparent. Özil would have started sulking after 20 minutes, gotten subbed off after 60 and denied the handshake with the coach. Watch how he is covering for the leftback without the ball, dropping deep to get on the ball all the time, turning and twisting when being pressed by 3 players and transitioning the attack.

If Arsenal wanted an assist poacher they should have gotten Fabregas back. At least he has the stamina for the Premier League and can score 20 goals in a season besides the Hollywood balls.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by MJ on Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:34 pm

Yeah this is a knee-jerk. It's his first season, and as you anticipated, lots of stats can be thrown at you to discredit most of what you said.

Seriously, if this is how we react to one terrible loss then how do we expect to make anything of this season? ffs.

So, point in case, tough shit.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Dnmac4 on Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:52 pm

@El Gunner wrote:I don't know if I didn't make it clear enough in the OP and in one of my responses to Hans, but I'll say it again. I am not blaming Özil for the Liverpool loss, nor am I singling him out as the only bad performer yesterday, nor am I using him as a scapegoat
Please read all my posts thoroughly in this thread. You can even just read the OP. My major, and only, point is I don't like the style of which Mesut Özil plays football.

In response to Dani. You say "he is a 10, what do I expect". Well does being a 10 require you not to work hard and put in a good shift game by game? I don't think so, not in the EPL. Not in the way that Arsenal play football.
See I was learned in my schoolboy years of playing football that a midfielder works most hardest on the pitch in terms of running. I was learned that when you're off the ball, you move in order to make yourself available for the ball. If you can't make a run in behind or drag opponents with you to make space for your teammates, you come to the ball. It's all about constant moving. And I've played everywhere in the midfield for my schools and academy in our town. Right wing, left wing, DM, B2B, AM (even SS). And our coaches always and I mean always drilled one most important thing into my head: constant motion and 100% effort. That is a midfielder, doesn't matter if you're job is to only receive the ball, wait for runners and put the ball through for them. Doesn't matter how good you are at doing that, that doesn't excuse you from not being absolutely determined, focused and giving 100% effort. I'm not trying to compare schoolboy football with professional football, the only point I'm trying to make here is that I was nurtured as a footballer that you give you're 100% best every game. And if you feel like you can't go anymore, you just dig in deeper. And tbf, that's what I do everytime I step onto a pitch, I'm always either suffering from cramp in the 2nd half or I'm absolutely knackered after a match. I consider effort and determination a high moral principle when playing football.

In response to the guy who brought Wilshere up in this thread. WTF are you doing? This isn't about Jack, nor about scapegoating Özil. Please just go above again in this post in see what my point is about.
And if you really want to bring Jack into this, then let's go to the main reason why I'm pissed with Özil and then compare him with Jack. Who puts in more effort in games, Jack or Özil? There you have it.

This thing about "what did you expect" I can't wrap my head around. Suddenly, it excuses you from not giving it your all on the pitch? And when people say Özil usually makes good passes all round throughout the game, have you watched all of our games this season. There were a few games in which he was so bad that he just couldn't seem to make a successful pass. Easy, simple passes he messes up sometimes. And then after he does that, he just strolls away, like I don't give a f*ck and then the opposition goes on the attack and then we're usually short on numbers at the back.

OK, wow. I did go back and read your main post and for you to come back and say things like this isn't about scapegoating Ozil my stomach hurt from laughing so hard. Did you actually read what you wrote? Let me remind you again for the second time.

"You can throw all the stats at me about how many assists he's made since whenever, but I don't care."
"He is supposed to be world class. He is supposed to be worth £40+ million for us. Well guess what. He isn't."

"There! I've said it. Sorry if you disagree, but this is just my view on it. Slaughter me all you want."

"PS: I actually wanted to title this thread: "I'm done with Mesut Özil"

This is really hilarious that you don't think you're scapegoating Ozil after your team getting there teeth kicked in. What in god's name would you call saying he's not worth the money you paid for him, he's not world class and "I'm done with Mesut Ozil"?

And if you think this has nothing to do with Wilshere you are very much mistaken. Ever since Arsenal bought Ozil and Santi plus Ramsey hitting absolutely sublime form it's been a juggling act in and around midfield and again IMO They play Jack no matter what even if he doesn't mesh with the configuration of the other players not to mention it generally pushes Santi into a role not in the middle of the pitch where as most Arsenal fans could see when they put him back in the middle after they dropped points in some hard games a month or two ago how good and comfortable he is there. As it's his natural position.

Jack can go years without his goals and assists adding up to 5 in numerous calendar years, in and out of the training room, countless below par performances against big clubs plus every reason you critisized Ozil you could say the same for Jack on a larger scale but Jack Hustles so he's immune to being judged on the same scale as Ozil.

One of the funniest things your wrote IMO was "You can throw all the stats at me about how many assists he's made since whenever, but I don't care."

So again you don't care that Ozil is year in and year out one of the leaders in assists in all of Europe ahead of some of the best players in the world and again going to have strong number's in his first year in the EPL plus he kills Wilshere in goals every year but it doesn't matter because Wilshere hustles more. I mean this is just comical.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret, a lot of the best players in the world don't hustle all over the pitch all game long.

And in your example is it really that noble or even smart for that matter to hustle all over the pitch after his midfield shat the bed in the first 15 minutes and the game was already over giving up 4 goals which could have been 6? I know of course to you and a lot of other fans that Wilshere had no part in letting those goals up and it was just the foreign contingent of Ozil, Cazorla and Arteta.

No, Jack was holding the midfield together while it was getting rapped and he was the only one who cared about winning, does that sum it up?
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Babun on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:31 pm

Scapegoating begins.. :coffee:
To give you an idea. In every game, 11 of your players start with your coach instructing them. If you truly believe the 5-1 trouncing was the result of one player not turning up....hmm.. you might need help....or not Laughing


Last edited by Babun on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Raptorgunner on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:36 pm

@Babun wrote:Scapegoating begins.. :coffee:
To give you an idea. In every game, 11 of your players start with your coach instructing them. If you truly believe the 5-1 truncing was the result of one player not turning up....hmm.. you might need help....or not Laughing

I am not ok with this thread but tbh, Ozil has been shocking, he lacks almost everything. One thing I hate the most is when players lack desire, and Ozil has been that.

Do I blame him? not sure. I would lose interest if Giroud was leading the line. Ozil does not deserve to start for us, and Giroud need to change carrier and become a model. Sometimes I believe Ozil thinks he is bigger than the club.

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:47 pm

One thing I've noticed is how all the Germans or Germany fanboys come in herds whenever a German player is criticized. Is it just me?

I guess it's natural for one to support players from his or her own nationality but I've observed that Germans always back their own kin no matter what, whether their arguments are reasonable or not.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by McLewis on Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:02 pm

@ExtremistEnigma wrote:One thing I've noticed is how all the Germans or Germany fanboys come in herds whenever a German player is criticized. Is it just me?

I guess it's natural for one to support players from his or her own nationality but I've observed that Germans always back their own kin no matter what, whether their arguments are reasonable or not.

There are many non-Germans defending Oezil as well. It's not always about nationality. He's a better player than he's shown and it's incredibly harsh to blame Arsenal's woes solely on him. I think that's what a lot of people are saying.
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Re: All about Mesut Özil

Post by Toffer Harley on Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:23 pm

@ExtremistEnigma wrote:One thing I've noticed is how all the Germans or Germany fanboys come in herds whenever a German player is criticized. Is it just me?

I guess it's natural for one to support players from his or her own nationality but I've observed that Germans always back their own kin no matter what, whether their arguments are reasonable or not.

any specific examples (other than this one apparently)?

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Re: All about Mesut Özil

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