Should Arteta be starting for us?

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Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by Raptorgunner on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:27 pm

I love what Arteta has done and still is a class player, but should he be starting for us?
Have seen a decline in Arteta this season, perhaps he is one of those, whose careers do not sparkle in the twilight years?

He stopped shooting from outside the box, his free kicks are not there anymore.

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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by urbaNRoots on Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:00 pm

This season yes, next season I would hope we sign a good first choice defensive partner for Ramsey.
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by EL Patron on Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:47 pm

Arteta is not world class but still he is still a good player. He has done alright this season. He does his job which is to sit, protect the back four and keep the ball moving. Goals are a bonus but not his responsibility. The likes of Ozil, Santi, Jack, Ramseys etc are the midfielders who should be judged on goals and assists.

I think we should be looking for another defensive mid, we can definitely do better than both Arteta and Flamini. The problem here is that the midfield is already stacked so Wenger is unlikely to add another player there. He wouldn't even do it earlier this season when Arteta got injured, would be great if he signs one but can't see it happening
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by Chumlum on Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:34 pm

I agree with the general sentiment here. Arteta is terrific. He deserves a bunch of salutes for the consistency and leadership he has provided over the last several years, but it looks like he's becoming ever so slightly more of a liability in places. He will always have some of that class with the ball, but as he ages and loses some of that quickness, the need to bring in a younger player becomes more apparent. He could still play a role in some matches even if he were no longer a starter.

I kind of hope that he stays on and retires at Arsenal though - in my ideal world, he'd be kind of like, I dunno, Dortmund's Sebastian Kehl, a leader even when he's no longer part of the guaranteed staring XI.
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by urbaNRoots on Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:01 pm

I agree that Wenger won't sign a defensive midfielder having signed Flamini already, it's just wishful thinking anyway.
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by silver on Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:07 am

I really liked Arteta's partnership with Song because they complimented each other well. You don't get the same fluidity when he's paired up with Flamini, Wilshere, Ox or even Ramsey.

If we want to see Ramsey playing at his best, or even get that Wilshere-Ramsey midfield, then we need an upgrade in the DM spot. Someone like prime Vieira would do nicely  Very Happy 
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by MJ on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:27 am

Arteta's never been athletic enough for his role, his beautiful metronomic passing has always compensated for that but he's getting on in years, it's inevitable. I'd love to have him around even as he declines in that aspect because he's still a great player and a good head to have in the locker room.

Should he continue to start? Perhaps it would be wise to invest in younger options to gradually succeed him in the coming years. But with Wilshere, Ramsey and Flamini available in the double pivot (also Rozza when necessary), it's not our most crucial concern.

We need to sign two CBs as Vermaelen looks certain to leave. A CB good enough to challenge Per and Kos and a less accomplished, perhaps even raw, option for 4th choice. It's unwise to assume that Bac (if he stayed) would be able to cover for the backline all the time and leave Jenkinson to start, unless we sign another RB which I don't see happening if Bac stays.

So, maybe he shouldn't be starting every game but the decline in his play isn't so great that he still can't serve an important role for the next couple of years.

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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by Twoism on Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:16 pm

I love Arteta but whenever i watched him, got a feeling i'm watching lesser version of Xavi or Xabi. Xavi w/o tigh & under pressure control, and Xabi w/o those Hollywood passes and through ball. He still has it in him to play 2 more years, not starter but back up. Who to replace him is hard question though, we just lost out Cabaye in the summer after all. Hope for Bender of course but might get Khedira lol
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by VendettaRed07 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:17 pm

l prefer flamini.. But we have no depth so he sort of has to.

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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by urbaNRoots on Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:17 pm

Khedira would be a great signing for us, would solve two problems. He could partner Ramsey or Arteta/Flamini without a problem. Sadly, it looks like he's signing a new contract with Real Madrid.
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by MJ on Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:47 pm

We never got that powerful midfielder we've been craving, the Wanyama, Carvalho, Matic type.

Haven't had someone like that since Gilberto or Vieira before him.

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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by Raptorgunner on Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:12 pm

Bring Song back? I am sure he learned a lot playing as CB for Barcelona?  rofl rofl 

We must buy a German player to play Arteta role.

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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by EL Patron on Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:49 pm

Wenger should slowly start phasing him out of the team next season, he struggles badly against pacy teams who play at a high tempo. shades of Gilberto in his last season for us, the mobility and athleticism isn't there anymore. Has done well for us but, would still keep him as a squad player.


Last edited by EL Patron on Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by RealGunner on Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:50 pm

His legs are gone.

People blame Flamini's rash tackles and all but at least he can make it to the tackle.
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by MJ on Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:57 pm

It's been the case since he came. He's not athletic enough to play alongside anyone but a powerful holding midfielder, which Flamini is not.

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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by gb on Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:00 pm

For a team with aspirations of winning the league a midfield pivot of arteta and flamini just doesn't cut it. Ramsey and Wilshere are boss and its a shame that they have been plagued with injuries this season, but arsenal lack a quality "cleaner type" midfielder. Like many of you said, arteta is a good player just not the player a team like arsenal can depend on week in and week out if they aspire to hold the trophy at seasons end. Someone in the mold of fernandinho would be an ideal pick up
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by urbaNRoots on Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:24 pm

Neither Arteta/Flamini should start for us ideally. Arteta can still contribute as a squad player, backup for our main defensive midfielder. As for Flamini, I'd keep him for his versatility, he can play DM, LB, RB or CM, and with our injury record we need a big squad. Arteta, Flamini and another very good defensive midfielder would be ace. I doubt Wenger will do that though, he'll either sell one of the two and sign a DM or sign no DM at all. If we ain't signing anyone, I hope Hayden gets starting minutes in that position.
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by EL Patron on Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:53 pm

@urbaNRoots wrote:Neither Arteta/Flamini should start for us ideally. Arteta can still contribute as a squad player, backup for our main defensive midfielder. As for Flamini, I'd keep him for his versatility, he can play DM, LB, RB or CM, and with our injury record we need a big squad. Arteta, Flamini and another very good defensive midfielder would be ace. I doubt Wenger will do that though, he'll either sell one of the two and sign a DM or sign no DM at all. If we ain't signing anyone, I hope Hayden gets starting minutes in that position.

I hope we really get someone, issue here is a good defensive mid will cost a lot. Whether he is prepared to pay whats required is another story.Next season would like to see New DM,Diaby,Arteta and Flamini then Arteta and Flamini leave at the end of the season. Won't be surprised if we start the season with Jack and Ramsey as a double pivot  No
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by silver on Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:06 am

There was one point in the match that summed up Arteta's contribution to me. We won the ball in our box, players were jogging out in semi-counterattack speed (like usual). Arteta gets the ball and instead of playing a forward pass (note we were already 2-0 down by this stage), he passes it back to Mertesacker giving Everton plenty of time to reset their defensive shape.

Chelsea go out and buy Matic during the summer transfer window and you can see the difference it makes to Chelsea's team. We didn't and now we are seeing the difference.

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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by Raptorgunner on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:16 pm

@silver wrote:There was one point in the match that summed up Arteta's contribution to me. We won the ball in our box, players were jogging out in  semi-counterattack speed (like usual). Arteta gets the ball and instead of playing a forward pass (note we were already 2-0 down by this stage), he passes it back to Mertesacker giving Everton plenty of time to reset their defensive shape.

Chelsea go out and buy Matic during the summer transfer window and you can see the difference it makes to Chelsea's team. We didn't and now we are seeing the difference.


The successful clubs have strong DMs, Arteta is not a DM, not sure what he is anymore? He just does nothing, lets players run past him and only does backward passes. Very weak physically, and I know Wenger wont drop him because Wenger has too much respect for him. smoking

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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by EL Patron on Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:13 pm

@Raptorgunner wrote:
@silver wrote:There was one point in the match that summed up Arteta's contribution to me. We won the ball in our box, players were jogging out in  semi-counterattack speed (like usual). Arteta gets the ball and instead of playing a forward pass (note we were already 2-0 down by this stage), he passes it back to Mertesacker giving Everton plenty of time to reset their defensive shape.

Chelsea go out and buy Matic during the summer transfer window and you can see the difference it makes to Chelsea's team. We didn't and now we are seeing the difference.


The successful clubs have strong DMs, Arteta is not a DM, not sure what he is anymore? He just does nothing, lets players run past him and only does backward passes. Very weak physically, and I know Wenger wont drop him because Wenger has too much respect for him. smoking

Disagree

Barca have Busquet and Madrid have Alonso. You don't necessarily need strength to be a good defensive mid. Makelele was one of the best in that position and he wasn't the strongest.
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by Upstate_Gooner on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:03 pm

@silver wrote:There was one point in the match that summed up Arteta's contribution to me. We won the ball in our box, players were jogging out in  semi-counterattack speed (like usual). Arteta gets the ball and instead of playing a forward pass (note we were already 2-0 down by this stage), he passes it back to Mertesacker giving Everton plenty of time to reset their defensive shape.

Chelsea go out and buy Matic during the summer transfer window and you can see the difference it makes to Chelsea's team. We didn't and now we are seeing the difference.


Thank you. At least one person who sees Arteta for what he really is - a very average player. I take that back, he was average a few years ago, now he's even worse. For me, it was a game against Fulham a year or two ago that was really an eye opener. He cheaply gave the ball away, and then needlessly fouled Berba in the box, which resulted in the penalty that they capitalized on. 3-3 the score. We win a penalty of our own in the dying minutes of the game (handball on Arshavin's cross into the box), and Arteta makes a whimpy attempt that the keeper saves. Game over! I never rated him highly when he played for Everton (The EverAverage club under Moyes), so he's been under my microscope ever since he put on Arsenal shirt. The guy just doesn't cut it as a CDM. In fact, he doesn't cut it at all. He lacks pace, but worse, he lacks an understanding of the game, and his direct responsibilities. He leaves our back four completely unprotected for large parts of the matches. He passes back, and sideways most of the time, killing our counterattacks. He commits stupid fouls, and is useless on both offense, and defense. So to sum it up, NO, he should not be starting for us! I can't believe Wenger still uses him in our midfield, especially ahead of Flamini, who's 10 times the player Arteta is. Flamini/Ramsey, or Flamini/Ox, or Flamini/Wilshere is my preferred combo, but I really do hope Wenger sees that we still need a proper CDM, and will get one in the summer.
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by Chumlum on Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:57 pm

I thought this was a decent discussion of Arteta and the DM situation.

Arsenal pretty much got lucky with Arteta in that sense. Arsène Wenger took a more creative player, made him operate more defensively and harnessed his skill on the ball to make him more ‘complete’ than many he could find. He became integral almost instantly – the luck came in with the fact that so few players like the pre-Arsenal Arteta have his intelligence, ability to read the game and professionalism. Arteta is, above all, the team’s man, and he constantly works to that end. That kind of selflessness, especially in players used to being in more expansive roles, is beyond rare.

But, for all Arteta’s many merits, Arsenal need to move forward.

The piece discusses Bender, Schneiderlin, and a couple others as transfer possibilities and how they might fit in. The author acknowledges the difficulty of getting a really elite DM - someone who can play the role of physical beast, but also has great technique and understanding of the game. Players like that are simply very hard to find, and it's often easier to build a close-enough facsimile, which is what happened with Arteta (and which worked pretty well for two seasons).

http://wearethenorthbank.com/case-defensive-midfield/
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by urbaNRoots on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:56 am

Very well said, couldn't agree more.

If I was in charge, I'd keep both Arteta/Flamini AND sign a younger/better defensive midfielder. But Wenger is in charge and I don't think he feels the same way as he never publicly acknowledged the need for an extra defensive midfielder after signing Flamini as he has done with the striker position.

As for options, there are a lot and nothing like the striker situation. Any of Luiz Gustavo, Lars Bender or Morgan Schneiderlin would do imo.
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Re: Should Arteta be starting for us?

Post by SamuelJayC on Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:17 pm

Arteta will be rotated a lot more next season. Wilshere (and hopefully Diaby) will hopefully be injury-free and Lars Bender is set to arrive (or another DM).
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