Aaron Ramsey

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:01 pm

@Zealous wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:I asked Dani, he doesnt care. CRimson pimping the shit out of him on bigsoccer Laughing.

but like i said, if you want a DM, go for 24 mil Gustavo, much better, proven, versatile, experienced.

there is no phantasm around him, but we know he is legit.

Dani acting indifferent :hmm:Usually if he thinks someone sucks he'll let you know hmm

If Gustavo was legit Bayern wouldn't have sold his ass. No thanks.
He left because he doesnt fit Pep fantasy of what a single pivot is supposed to be in his system. It doesnt mean that he is a bad player. If i recall, pep is the guy that let Etoo and yaya go, were they shit too? no just african...and another negrito left bayern, shocking. come to madrid alaba...Proud

mind you, Javi Martinez doesnt even fit that profile himself for pep Laughing

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Zealous on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:07 pm

While I appreciate and respect your appraisal of Pogba Arq please keep in mind that my natural distaste for Pogba comes from the fact that such a large price tag is attached to him and his performances. A price tag I think is ludicrous and simply not worth the time and effort for a player who is not recognised as the best amongst his peers just yet.    

I'm also factoring in the fact that Raiola is his agent. On more than one occasion the club has out right refused to interact with him and I applaud the club for doing so. The way he held United and now Juve hostage isn't something that will stop any time soon or at least I predict this to be the case.

If Madrid could sign Pogba for half the reported prices being thrown around? If that were the case then of course I think we should sign him but seeing as how that is not the case at this moment in time I would not.

That and his haircut is shit.


Last edited by Zealous on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Zealous on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:09 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Zealous wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:I asked Dani, he doesnt care. CRimson pimping the shit out of him on bigsoccer Laughing.

but like i said, if you want a DM, go for 24 mil Gustavo, much better, proven, versatile, experienced.

there is no phantasm around him, but we know he is legit.

Dani acting indifferent :hmm:Usually if he thinks someone sucks he'll let you know hmm

If Gustavo was legit Bayern wouldn't have sold his ass. No thanks.
He left because he doesnt fit Pep fantasy of what a single pivot is supposed to be in his system. It doesnt mean that he is a bad player. If i recall, pep is the guy that let Etoo and yaya go, were they shit too? no just african...and another negrito left bayern, shocking. come to madrid alaba...Proud

mind you, Javi Martinez doesnt even fit that profile himself for pep Laughing

Yaya and Eto'o were replaced extremely easily by Pep though. If anything Barca got better when those two left.

I would sign Martinez in a heart beat, although he'll have to kiss and make up with CR hmm

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:19 pm

my point was that just like Etoo and Yaya, Gustavo didnt leave because he wasnt good enough, he simply didnt fit anymore. He still is a quality player, cheaper, better and safer than sir william. it's a no brainer really.


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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Arquitescu on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:19 pm

@Zealous wrote:While I appreciate and respect your appraisal of Pogba Arq please keep in mind that my natural distaste for Pogba comes from the fact that such a large price tag is attached to him and his performances. A price tag I think is ludicrous and simply not worth the time and effort for a player who is not recognised as the best amongst his peers just yet.    

I'm also factoring in the fact that Raiola is his agent. On more than one occasion the club has out right refused to interact with him and I applaud the club for doing so. The way he held United and now Juve hostage isn't something that will stop any time soon or at least I predict this to be the case.

If Madrid could sign Pogba for half the reported prices being thrown around? If that were the case then of course I think we should sign him but seeing as how that is not the case at this moment in time I would.

That and his haircut is shit.

I'm not defending his pricetag. Yet for youngsters usually I would choose to splurge that money considering if the starlet is a known quantity and his talent is also acknowledged, the purchase of him is a long term investment along with the development that accompanies it.

Yes, in the price-tag is indeed absurd yet in this inflated climate of market, it isn't as absurd compared to the purchases other big clubs have made to which have been even worse (Bale for that exorbitant sum come to mind).

I agree about Mino Raiola. He represents the absolute worst in footballing agents and I cannot stress enough on what a despicable snake this fat lump of lard actually is.

Yes, and his haircut is indeed awful. His post-goal celebration even worse.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Zealous on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:25 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:my point was that just like Etoo and Yaya, Gustavo didnt leave because he wasnt good enough, he simply didnt fit anymore. He still is a quality player, cheaper, better and safer than sir william. it's a no brainer really.


I'm sorry mate Gustavo sucks. I hate to have to be the one that breaks this to you, he's not good enough and I seriously think Casemiro is better or will be better soon.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:27 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:my point was that just like Etoo and Yaya, Gustavo didnt leave because he wasnt good enough, he simply didnt fit anymore. He still is a quality player, cheaper, better and safer than sir william. it's a no brainer really.


I was pretty astonished that no top club went for Gustavo more forcefully in summer. Arsenal for example :facepalm:. He cost not quite 20m€, which was just a huge bargain.
He needed regular playing time for the WC though, maybe that's why Wolfsburg was fine with him.
After the WC I'm sure if some top club were to pay his clause he's be happy to go there.


The return leg against you guys 2012 was the greatest performance Gustavo ever had. Majestic, immense, those tacklings Proud

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:32 pm

@Zealous wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:my point was that just like Etoo and Yaya, Gustavo didnt leave because he wasnt good enough, he simply didnt fit anymore. He still is a quality player, cheaper, better and safer than sir william. it's a no brainer really.


I'm sorry mate Gustavo sucks. I hate to have to be the one that breaks this to you, he's not good enough and I seriously think Casemiro is better or will be better soon.

yes, players that have proven nothing are better than a player who clearly has. ok ok, i get it.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:34 pm

Pogbas price tag is ridiculous, but so is the market. So, yeah if you want to buy a player who's got well over 10 years of football left in him and is touted to be the future best b2b mid in the world, he's not going to go cheap

Any half-decent Brazilian 'wonder kid' has an automatic 20M+ price tag slapped on them ffs. Anybody who gets a dosage of good old BPL sky sports hype after 6 months is touted to be worth 40M or more

That's just how it is. Obviously Pogba is not worth 70M, neither is anybody on a pure footballing level. Players like Messi however can recoup a lot of money through his fame.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Onyx on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:50 pm

@Arquitescu wrote:
@Zealous wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:
i would do otherwise, at least pogba has shown something we can all attest of.

45 millions is his release clause, and thats what they are asking.

Uhhh What has Pogba shown exactly? From where I'm standing he's done nothing that is so impressive that we should pay 70-80 million for him and his ridiculous haircut. Winning the league in a one team league (and a very weak one team league at that) is supposed to impress me? rofl

Also I want to avoid Raiola like the plague.  

You've made it clear before that you don't watch enough Serie A to diversify that Juventus' superior consistency and depth in the league does not make it directly equivocal to it being a weak league. Pogba's performances are also not directly proportional to those outliers; as I surmise you've scouted him since the turn of the year in which he has been below his standard and been called to be benched. As otherwise his Juventus' career has been nothing short of outstanding, no midfielder U-21 bar Verratti performing to those levels.

@YohanModric: So I guess we'll ignore Modric in his first year breaking the simplest of elementary roles of a quintessential CM or Xabi not adapting in such mercurial fashion either. Dribbling, agility and looking graceful is not the be all end all to a midfielder especially considering your signing has received inconsistent gametime to which leads to sluggish and performances that do not reflect the abilities of a player. Illara was deployed in the '2' of a 4-2-3-1 under Montanier and the '1' of a 4-1-2-3 and is not suited to be such a supplementary player in the current Madrid semantic. Then again its obvious you did not observe him last season and would notice overt traits rather than subtle ones which accumulate to make a truly intelligent midfielder.  


Illarramendi is a good player, it's just I've only seen a few games of him at Real Sociedad and I'm judging him based on what he's done at Real Madrid. He's basically been a poor mans Alonso whenever he's played at CDM.

Being able to dribble quickly is important for a player who plays RCM/LCM in a 4-3-3 and whenever Illarra has played there he hasn't been able to do that.

Being intelligent is important as well, but it does kind of limit a player if he can't dribble or move around quickly enough.

Anyway I agree that he hasn't played consistently enough and he's been played in the wrong position, however going forward I can't really see him starting. A proper DM would be a better option to replace Alonso.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:53 pm

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:Pogbas price tag is ridiculous, but so is the market. So, yeah if you want to buy a player who's got well over 10 years of football left in him and is touted to be the future best b2b mid in the world, he's not going to go cheap

Any half-decent Brazilian 'wonder kid' has an automatic 20M+ price tag slapped on them ffs. Anybody who gets a dosage of good old BPL sky sports hype after 6 months is touted to be worth 40M or more

That's just how it is. Obviously Pogba is not worth 70M, neither is anybody on a pure footballing level. Players like Messi however can recoup a lot of money through his fame.
i think realistically, if he decides to listen to the offers being made to him, you guys will get 40-50 mil for him.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Arquitescu on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:01 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:
@Arquitescu wrote:
@Zealous wrote:

Uhhh What has Pogba shown exactly? From where I'm standing he's done nothing that is so impressive that we should pay 70-80 million for him and his ridiculous haircut. Winning the league in a one team league (and a very weak one team league at that) is supposed to impress me? rofl

Also I want to avoid Raiola like the plague.  

You've made it clear before that you don't watch enough Serie A to diversify that Juventus' superior consistency and depth in the league does not make it directly equivocal to it being a weak league. Pogba's performances are also not directly proportional to those outliers; as I surmise you've scouted him since the turn of the year in which he has been below his standard and been called to be benched. As otherwise his Juventus' career has been nothing short of outstanding, no midfielder U-21 bar Verratti performing to those levels.

@YohanModric: So I guess we'll ignore Modric in his first year breaking the simplest of elementary roles of a quintessential CM or Xabi not adapting in such mercurial fashion either. Dribbling, agility and looking graceful is not the be all end all to a midfielder especially considering your signing has received inconsistent gametime to which leads to sluggish and performances that do not reflect the abilities of a player. Illara was deployed in the '2' of a 4-2-3-1 under Montanier and the '1' of a 4-1-2-3 and is not suited to be such a supplementary player in the current Madrid semantic. Then again its obvious you did not observe him last season and would notice overt traits rather than subtle ones which accumulate to make a truly intelligent midfielder.  


Illarramendi is a good player, it's just I've only seen a few games of him at Real Sociedad and I'm judging him based on what he's done at Real Madrid. He's basically been a poor mans Alonso whenever he's played at CDM.

Being able to dribble quickly is important for a player who plays RCM/LCM in a 4-3-3 and whenever Illarra has played there he hasn't been able to do that.

Being intelligent is important as well, but it does kind of limit a player if he can't dribble or move around quickly enough.

Anyway I agree that he hasn't played consistently enough and he's been played in the wrong position, however going forward I can't really see him starting. A proper DM would be a better option to replace Alonso.

Good post.

You cannot expect Illara to perform or even enact himself in the Alonso role considering he is a more dynamic and rounded version of him, Alonso being a more specialized player for specialized roles.

Illaramendi in the frequent pivot also was deployed alongside Ansotegi or Bergara who acted as the true DMs to anchor the midfield in creating freedom to release Illara.



Not much beyond it to say that it is too early to so closely scrutinize a midfielder who just came off the U-23 squad and has not been afforded the tactical flexibility nor timeframe to settle just yet.

With Modric performing in a season of his life and Xabi still remaining as a (tactical) piece of importance within the midfield, it will be a stride more difficult yet I'm confident he will be phased in eventually.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:02 pm

I'd say we'd go for 60 if he doesn't sign a new deal

However, as soon as we sell him any player we enquire about will magically go up 50% in value, so tbh i'd rather we tried a player + cash deal so we're guaranteed to get at least 1 player we want as opposed to overpaying for a consolation target.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by EarlyPrototype on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:06 pm

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:I'd say we'd go for 60 if he doesn't sign a new deal

However, as soon as we sell him any player we enquire about will magically go up 50% in value, so tbh i'd rather we tried a player + cash deal so we're guaranteed to get at least 1 player we want as opposed to overpaying for a consolation target.

You can have Casemiro, Khedira and 35 mil. Please take it.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:09 pm

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:I'd say we'd go for 60 if he doesn't sign a new deal

However, as soon as we sell him any player we enquire about will magically go up 50% in value, so tbh i'd rather we tried a player + cash deal so we're guaranteed to get at least 1 player we want as opposed to overpaying for a consolation target.

you would need a team willing to pay that. PSG are under FFP watch, and they dont need him, so i doubt it happens.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Zealous on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:13 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Zealous wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:my point was that just like Etoo and Yaya, Gustavo didnt leave because he wasnt good enough, he simply didnt fit anymore. He still is a quality player, cheaper, better and safer than sir william. it's a no brainer really.


I'm sorry mate Gustavo sucks. I hate to have to be the one that breaks this to you, he's not good enough and I seriously think Casemiro is better or will be better soon.

yes, players that have proven nothing are better than a player who clearly has. ok ok, i get it.

Or you can judge them on their actual skills. What a player has proven (and even that is debatable in this case) isn't the only reason you sign someone.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:19 pm

skills that are shown vs betis are worth a great load of grass and piss. It's football played at the highest level, under the most stressful situation that interests me. So casemiro and willian can show their skillzzz vs small fried in no pressure games all they want, i will go with a guy i know has performed in CL against the best teams in europe, and has demonstrated the consistency needed for top level football.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by urbaNRoots on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:20 pm

Who the flying *bleep* is William Laughing
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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Zealous on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:21 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:skills that are shown vs betis are worth a great load of grass and piss. It's football played at the highest level, under the most stressful situation that interests me. So casemiro and willian can show their skillzzz vs small fried in no pressure games all they want, i will go with a guy i know has performed in CL against the best teams in europe, and has demonstrated the consistency needed for top level football.

OK let's just agree to disagree for now man. We'll see after this summer if one of us (or both hmm ) was deceived eco smile

It's too early to be talking about transfers anyway lol

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Zealous on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:23 pm

@urbaNRoots wrote:Who the flying *bleep* is William Laughing

I'm not sure if you already know of not but the guy we're talking about is William Carvalho of Sporting.

He's a defensive midfielder who will play for Portugal in the World Cup. He's still young and very raw atm.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by urbaNRoots on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:32 pm

Actually I've heard about Carvalho, didn't know they were the same person. He's linked with Man Utd every day, he'z supposed to be very good but I've never seen him play.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Zealous on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:38 pm

@urbaNRoots wrote:Actually I've heard about Carvalho, didn't know they were the same person. He's linked with Man Utd every day, he'z supposed to be very good but I've never seen him play.

Ah sorry about that eco smile

I personally think he is good, potentially great if he develops in the right conditions.

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Valkyrja on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:22 pm

Why go for another Portuguese 21 y.o when we have J-Rod in cantera ? We should buy a proven player, not some 21-22 y.o. Ramsey is better than Pogba btw

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Zealous on Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:59 pm



Sir William Proud

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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Gil on Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:03 pm

Is that William lad actually tha great or just another Miguel Veloso? He's not actually played that much outside the Portuguese League has he?
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Re: Aaron Ramsey

Post by Zealous on Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:06 pm

@Gil wrote:Is that William lad actually tha great or just another Miguel Veloso? He's not actually played that much outside the Portuguese League has he?

From what I've seen he's quite good.

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