Role play

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Re: Role play

Post by Khaled on Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:05 pm

@Kick wrote:I am going to throw my two cents into this.

I honestly believe it would be a real shame if Barca moved away from their style. It is so deeply embedded in Barca, it would take years to remove completely and change your club to suit another style. So I'd bring back Tikki Taka much like Pep, with high pressure when we're not in possesion.

Out:
Valdes (free), Pinto (free), Cesc (25m), Puyol (free), Masch (10m), Song (10m), Afellay(5m), Cuenca (5m),  Dos Santos (5m), Bojan and Kerrison (2m each).

Total: 64m Euros
In:
MATS (12m), Reina (4.5m), Benatia (40m), Laporte (30m), Kovacic (20m), Cardozo (10m)
Total: 116.5m

MATS
Alves Benatia Pique Alba
Busquets
Xavi Iniesta
Sanchez Messi Neymar

Deulofeu Cardozo Pedro
Kovacic Rafinha
Sergi Roberto
Adriano Laporte, Bartra, Montoya
Reina

Oier and Tello also part of the squad.

I'd be looknig to buy a RB once the transfer ban was lifted too.

why are our players so *bleep* underrated!

Mata is worth 45M, but Cesc 25M LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Also, Alexis is worth 20-25M according to sky! Laughing

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Re: Role play

Post by Winter is Coming on Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:46 pm

Its been 26 years since Cruyff has bought the philosophy to Barcelona and in those 26 years we have won 39 titles and 10 of which were European titles (European/CL/Europa/UEFA). We have a total of 79 titles, so while it took us 88 years to win 40, with the philosophy we won almost as much in almost 1/4 of the time frame (obviously other factors lie in this, but for the sake of the debate). Also keep in mind out of those 26 years I believe 7 of those year we went trophy less.

I don't think we need a change at all, but maybe adding something to it, or bring new blood and playing to their strength with this philosophy is the better thing to do.

Out:

Valdes (free), Pinto (free), Cesc (30m), Puyol (free), Masch (15-18m), Song (12-15m), Afellay(5-10m), Cuenca (5-8m), Dos Santos (5-10m), Bojan and Kerrison (2-5m each), Sanchez/Pedro(one of the two for about 30M), Tello (10M), Alba/Adriano (20-25M and 10M).

Thats about 120-130M

In:

MATS (12M), Reina (4M)/Promote Masip (Free), Benatia (40M), Laporte/Hummels (30M or 25M), Moreno (15M), Koke (20M) or Promote Espinosa (Free), Cardozo (5M), Rafinha and Deulofeu (Free), Promote Traore and Samper (Free)

Thats about 126M

MATS
Alves Pique Benatia Alba/Moreno
Busquets
Xavi Iniesta
Pedro/Sanchez Messi Neymar

Traore Cardozo Deulofeu
Koke/Espinosa Rafinha
Samper/Roberto
Adriano/Alba, Laporte/Hummels, Bartra, Montoya
Reina/Masip

I'd really look into promoting some of the youth who are doing well and slowly get them into the first team such as Masip, Samper, Traore and Espinosa. Also look into D. Suarez.

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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:13 pm

@neuro11 wrote:Are guys talking about the german striker Klose who is 35 already Laughing ??? tell me some points i probably am missing about him

And also why some people think Pique would be a decent backup for busquets?? I find it difficult to even think him cutting the attacks near the midline like busquets....
Also what about holding the balls and passing.....It would be a complete mess, no??

I agree. I dont understand the need for Klose...someone of his kind, but not him specifically. The guy is ancient.

I also agree about Pique, dont see him being a good back up for Busquets, not now. He can pass the ball, but that's not the only thing required of the position, I dont think he has the rest.


Khaled, Costa? Why? Seems to suck every time he isnt in a counter attack situation and for that money, wouldnt you prefer a more versatile forward?
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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:23 pm

I have no intrest in signing Reina to be honest. Wouldnt pay a cent for him.

Would rather promote Masip, he is 25 years old now and is having a great year. I am fairly sure he is good enough to be back up and would deserve a shot if MATS struggles.
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Re: Role play

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:52 pm

@The Franchise wrote:I have no intrest in signing Reina to be honest. Wouldnt pay a cent for him.

Would rather promote Masip, he is 25 years old now and is having a great year. I am fairly sure he is good enough to be back up and would deserve a shot if MATS struggles.

But he wouldn't cost a penny, his contract runs out this summer.

Re Pique as a DM: it wasn't a serious suggestion, as I said it depends on who we get to play as the new Keita.

Re Klose: for the 1m he is apparently worth we have nothing or lose. We just get him to play 5 matches a year where all he has to do is stand and receive crosses. Age doesn't matter against parked buses because there is no space to run unto.

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Re: Role play

Post by Onyx on Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:56 pm

Since when has Kroos ever played CM consistently? I think he'd fit the LCM position more than the deeper RCM position.

Plus he isn't the quickest either.

Someone like Banega would be a better fit, but I'm not sure how he's doing currently.

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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:04 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:I have no intrest in signing Reina to be honest. Wouldnt pay a cent for him.

Would rather promote Masip, he is 25 years old now and is having a great year. I am fairly sure he is good enough to be back up and would deserve a shot if MATS struggles.

But he wouldn't cost a penny, his contract runs out this summer.

Re Pique as a DM: it wasn't a serious suggestion,  as I said it depends on who we get to play as the new Keita.

Re Klose: for the 1m he is apparently worth we have nothing or lose.  We just get him to play 5 matches a year where all he has to do is stand and receive crosses.  Age doesn't matter against parked buses because there is no space to run unto.

Didnt know that. But didnt he leave Pool because he was asked to be back up? And still, gotta pay his wages...Masip would be considerably cheaper I imagine.

About Klose, wouldnt you prefer someone who can be of more use than that? Someone who could get on the end of crosses but still would have a use in the other matches if called upon?

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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:07 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Since when has Kroos ever played CM consistently? I think he'd fit the LCM position more than the deeper RCM position.

Plus he isn't the quickest either.

Someone like Banega would be a better fit, but I'm not sure how he's doing currently.

He has played holding midfield for Bayern, I am starting to change my opinion he couldnt play with Iniesta. I think he might be able to.

But I still think he has the same weaknesses to Cesc. I really want a midfielder who can get stuck in a little bit...Deco of 08' would be nice.

Banega is a fantasy imo. His talent far outweighes what he will actually do on a consistent basis. He has all the attributes to be great, but wont ever be.
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Re: Role play

Post by futbol on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:37 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Would Kroos be an upgrade on Cesc? At least, to be worth the hassle?

Dont get me wrong, I think he is the better player..probably...maybe.

However, he has similar weaknesses...physically not great, slow,below average defensive player.

Overall prime Xavi was also physically not great, slow (not Cesc slow but still ...) and below average defensively. That is not why Fabregas sucks at Barca though. Cesc's awareness is completely off. In the methodical buildup play of Barca he doesn't read the game well enough. He plays passes to teammates that are under pressure, he misplaces passes, he doesn't put the correct weight on the pass, he's impatient and attempts throughballs when they aren't on, he runs too much which makes him look like a lost lamb instead of letting the ball do the work etc. Kroos is better in those details IMO, a more modern player. A simple pass completion rate comparison is enough to highlight this IMO: Fabregas: 87 %. Kroos: 93 %. That's significant. It's the difference between Cesc and Xavi. I blame Wenger and his "go on the pitch and do what you want" policy.

Whatever. In short: Kroos would work IMO. If you want more physicality and speed you're already looking for a box-to-box midfielder in the mould of Vidal.

@The Franchise wrote:

Futbol, are you not worried by the age of Mathieu? Feels like at any moment he can suffer a physical decline and have to become a full time centerback.

Mathieu is much safer than Glasiano, even at 30. Laughing I would basically just swap 29 year old Glasiano with 30 year old Mathieu. Would be an upgrade for sure and in 2 or 3 years we can look to replace him. Not a major investment anyway. € 10M max. should do. But as a squad player he would add a lot (height, physicality, CB option).

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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:39 am

I disagree, Xavi was at least tenious and sharp. He couldnt run distances, but he was sharp in a 2-3m space and he was/still is clever and closes space. He did actually bother people.

Cesc has the awareness of a goldfish and centerbacks could probably spin out of his "pressure. The gap was bigger than you think I believe.

The other stuff I agree with, I did say Kroos is the better player. However, I am solely talking about their defensive weakness. Both of them, physically poor and immobile, not sharp.

I agree, Mathieu is better and more reliable than Adriano. But I wasnt comparing him to Adriano, I was comparing him to any player you could think of.

I personally would still sign him, I was just pointing out the possible problem.
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Re: Role play

Post by neuro11 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:01 am

I have another question....Why some of you (if not all) think putting a cross to a tall CF solves park the bus problem. Infact, i wonder which team right now is comfortable in dealing with PTB teams weak in weak out. Even Mou one of PTB artist fails to deal with it with tall striker and good cross maker. We never could solve this problem and i doubt we will be sonner. Because there is no straighforward soln actually. tall target man and good cosses is just a option we think because we never tried. once we try we will know it does not help much.

On another note, when we decide to sell Alexis/Pedro i would go with selling alexis because that would be profitable. non of them are adding much then why not choose the option of cashing in more. no way, we can earn 20/25 m through Pedro....

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Re: Role play

Post by futbol on Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:43 am

@neuro11 wrote:I have another question....Why some of you (if not all) think putting a cross to a tall CF solves park the bus problem. Infact, i wonder which team right now is comfortable in dealing with PTB teams weak in weak out. Even Mou one of PTB artist fails to deal with it with tall striker and good cross maker. We never could solve this problem and i doubt we will be sonner. Because there is no straighforward soln actually. tall target man and good cosses is just a option we think because we never tried. once we try we will know it does not help much.

On another note, when we decide to sell Alexis/Pedro i would go with selling alexis because that would be profitable. non of them are adding much then why not choose the option of cashing in more. no way, we can earn 20/25 m through Pedro....

A centerforward doesn't just give you the option to cross. I don't know why people think this. The main benefit for us would be that a centerforward would occupy the 2 centerbacks. Let's say we have Falcao. A player like that has to be watched closely. Which in return would give Messi more space through the middle. Watch the 4-0 Milan game from last season with Villa infront of Messi. There aren't 2 centerbacks and 2 defensive midfielders all surrounding Messi anymore as it happens everytime with the false 9 system. The 2 centerbacks are watching Villa primarily. Even for the first goal this is highlighted perfectly. Both centerbacks hesitate to step forward because they are marking Villa and Messi can pull the trigger. The aerial ability would be another bonus, not the sole benefit. The centerforward doesn't even have to score from a direct cross himself. If he can win balls in the air and lay it off (see Mandzukic to Schweinsteiger at Old Trafford) then job well done.

4-3-3 is tremendously predictable now for us:

1. Xavi and Iniesta barely score goals.
2. Pay attention to the diagonal runs of Neymar and Alexis, especially when Messi is on the ball for one of his throughballs inbetween centerback and fullback.
3. Watch Messi closely with centerbacks and DMs.
4. ???
5. Profit.

Big teams can pull this off to perfection.

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Re: Role play

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:02 pm

I don't think it'd be a good idea to change from the current way you play because frankly the change needs time and at a big club like Barca, time is very scarce but I do think you should have tactically flexible players who can play in different set ups to shake it up a little a stop being predictable. Also there is no point selling guys like Adriano and Cesc because it's important to have a strong bench. Currently when Barca needs to chase a result they sub on Alexis or Roberto or Cesc, there is nobody else there and lets be real only Alexis can actually make a difference

Out:

Valdes (free), Pinto (free), Puyol (free), Song (5-10m), Afellay(5-10m), Cuenca (5m), Dos Santos (5-10m), Bojan and Kerrison (2m in total), Tello (10M), Montoya (5-10m)

IN

MatS (I would've bought someone else as a starter but seems like Barca have already made their mind up)
Vermealen (5-10m)
Benatia/Laporte/Inigo (30-35m)
I would also try and get Silva again as he has expressed a desire to leave on top of the other CBs and bench Pique for him if he is unattainable then the others are enough
Azpilicueta (15m), Alves is too comfortable he needs competition
Koke (25-30m)
Rafinha (back from loan)
Llorente 10m)
Martinez (20-30m)

These guys have the flexibility of playing different formations depending on games

MatS (b keeper)
Alves (Azpi)-Pique (Verm/Marche/Mart)-Benatia (Verm/Marche/Mart)-Alba (Adriano)
Xavi (Cesc/Rafinha))-Busquets (Marcherano/Martinez)-Iniesta (Koke/Rafinha)
Alexis (Pedro)-Messi (Llorente)-Neymar (Pedro)
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Re: Role play

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:44 pm

 silent 
@The Franchise wrote:.

About Klose, wouldnt you prefer someone who can be of more use than that? Someone who could get on the end of crosses but still would have a use in the other matches if called upon?


Depends on the price. If getting a CF interferes with getting 2 CBs or a physical cm then I would rather the money be spent on a utility player like klose.

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Re: Role play

Post by CBarca on Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:49 am

I have a question to propose

Do you guys think that the formation used against Milan in the 4-0 can be used on a more permanent basis?

-Pedro---Villa----------
------------Messi-----Alves-
----Iniesta---Xavi---------
---------Busquets---------
--Alba----Masch---Pique---

Obviously switching Villa with some other CF. Also Alves position is less where he is but more him running up and down the pitch on the right side.
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Re: Role play

Post by Onyx on Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:29 am

It was used in the 2011 final as well at times and during other other games when Pep was manager. The only problem would be whether Alves can control the entire flank with him getting on a bit.

Also would the CF be prepared to track back in the RW area? Because I doubt Messi will.

Unless of course Barca defended in a 4-4-2 shape, similar to how we are doing with Ronaldo not tracking back.

--------------CF--------Messi
---Neymar---Iniesta----Busquets----Xavi/New CM

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Re: Role play

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:48 am

@CBarca wrote:I have a question to propose

Do you guys think that the formation used against Milan in the 4-0 can be used on a more permanent basis?

-Pedro---Villa----------
------------Messi-----Alves-
----Iniesta---Xavi---------
---------Busquets---------
--Alba----Masch---Pique---

Obviously switching Villa with some other CF. Also Alves position is less where he is but more him running up and down the pitch on the right side.
Alves is getting older makes this difficult. He's also on the last year of his contract and has not been renewed (or rumored to be renewed) which almost certainly means he's getting sold.

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Re: Role play

Post by neuro11 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:26 am

i am glad that none of you(including me) have any chance to take Barcelona next season  Laughing When given power by franchise, you have just taken a vacuum cleaner to wash everything out.
How is it possible we sell CB,FB, CM,winger same season and then buy big players (except in defense everyone asking big names) to fill up. Is there an example in history that such a massive change worked for any team???
This is because you are looking into past only not in future. But i feel someone like pep who had the vision for future would not have done such a massive change in a season. Even look when he took charge how much he worked on transfer in first season. You might say situation is different but then i would wonder what in present situation pep would have done, considering he is a manager now having full power.

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Re: Role play

Post by Donuts on Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:36 am

Because we have a large chance of being transfer banned after this summer for a year so we must buy and sell as soon as possible in large amounts to last the next year and a half.

Dani Alves has lately been sortof outspoken player towards the fan and media and it doesn't help he is on his last year with no rumors of signing a new contract, seems likely he is going to be sold.

Mascherano has been called to be sold for the longest time and is a necessity if we are to get any better as a club, as said before if he were 3-4+ inches taller he would be acceptable but he isn't helping our weakness, it doesn't help he can't pass a ball either, practically useless.

we have a large amount of wingers, many youth products and others like bojan/Afellay/tello/cuenca who need to be sold.

and if we sell Song we need a midfielder who can substitute Sergio Buscuit when needed, preferably one who can add more depth to our midfield with more physicality.

so with all those sellings and puyol/valdes leaving we most certainly need a large number of replacements.

the obvious keeper, atleast two defenders (one big name one rotational) a midfielder to rotate.
are the necessities.
a forward with a big name is only needed if we sell one of pedro or sanchez.
a full back is needed if dani alves is sold, although i guess we could stick with adriano/montoya if we cannot find anyone.

mind you this is my speculation if we stick to the same gameplan of tata

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Re: Role play

Post by futbol on Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:08 am

@Donuts wrote:atleast two defenders (one big name one rotational)

Will never happen. Think about it. 2 new centerbacks (1 of them a big name) means Bartra becomes 4th choice. They are clearly not intending to do that. Tito said he didn't ask for a CB because he trusts Bartra. Tata said the same. Zubi said Bartra will be great. The mindset in the club is very clear. They see Bartra as a player who is about to become a starter soon-ish and won't block his path.

We will only replace Puyol and probably not even with a "big name". The only big name we are persistently linked with is David Luiz and he is worse than Mascherano except in the air. Hummels clearly said he is staying with Dortmund, Laporte is too expensive for us apparently, Benatia said he is staying at Roma unless Roma themselves ask him to leave (and we aren't a club that is aggressively pushing for someone except it is Fabregas). This leaves us with D. Luiz as the "big name" and the Musacchios and Fazios and Mathieus (as first choice centerback Laughing) of this world.

This will be a hilariously bad transfer window. When the club president already says "there won't be a revolution, only evolution" then expect something like: ter Stegen + D. Luiz + Rafinha back from loan + Zuniga to replace Alves. Laughing

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Re: Role play

Post by neuro11 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:36 am

I personally would also not go for revolution rather go for following specific changes :

1. Buy a decent CB (all the decent, no flashy names are mentioned already, those are fine) and keep Bartra as his replacement, not mashcherano. But i will not sell mashcherano. He is loyal and ready to stay benched. i think he still did not forget to play in DM and can make long crosses. I rather keep him squad to play him in some different tactics in difficult situations . But he will no more be  a starter. I am sure he will accept. I would sell Song though

2. will replace Cesc. this is only major decision  from me. I know its not possible. Barca will not do that. I want a decent replacement for Cesc. Again to this point i agree with the issues discussed about his replacement.

3. others :
I will Promote Masip and i think i have MATs already if not would go for Athletico lad at any cost.
I will keep Sergi roberto in bench and let JDS go.
Defolou Loan continue,Rafinha also. We still have too many midfielders. No reason to bring him back. He needs first team game regularly then playing occasionally for us.
As a coach i dont care what is happening to Bojan,Kerrison and etc they will not be in the squad so its upto management whether they keep their loaning cycle or sell.

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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:10 pm

@CBarca wrote:I have a question to propose

Do you guys think that the formation used against Milan in the 4-0 can be used on a more permanent basis?

-Pedro---Villa----------
------------Messi-----Alves-
----Iniesta---Xavi---------
---------Busquets---------
--Alba----Masch---Pique---

Obviously switching Villa with some other CF. Also Alves position is less where he is but more him running up and down the pitch on the right side.

If Alba wasnt Alba then maybe. Still need other things, like a new CB and a different kind of midfielder (I know you know that, but I am just saying) but yes, I believe so. I mean, how else can we solve Messi no longer provided the types of runs he did previously?

Though, its true, the striker would have to run his ass off..especially in the big games. They would need Alexis workrate with Falcao-ish quality Laughing

Does such a player even exist?
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Re: Role play

Post by Winter is Coming on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:18 pm

Lewandowski is probably the only one I can think of, but thats why he's on his way to Munich.

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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:21 pm

I still dont see him running back to chase leftbacks. And if I was him, I would think, why should I.

Ideally, the 442 defensive shape MT had was on point. But we again dont have the players for it.

Trying to turn Xavi and Neymar into Arda Turan and Koke wont happen.
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Re: Role play

Post by Onyx on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:24 pm

Cavani? There's been rumours of him leaving PSG at times this season. Hard worker and a clinical finisher. I don't think he likes playing RW at PSG, but he'd be playing more centrally at Barca in that formation.

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Re: Role play

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:25 pm

I think Cavani fits that bill but I don't think he would be willing to settle for a secondary role at another club after being shifted to the wing at PSG to accomodate Ibra

Edit: mt you pos Laughing
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halamadrid2
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