Role play

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Re: Role play

Post by futbol on Thu May 01, 2014 4:45 pm

Dani Alves has told his compatriots Alex, Thiago Silva, Marquinhos and Lucas Moura that he will join them at PSG next season. [md]

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Re: Role play

Post by CBarca on Thu May 01, 2014 10:22 pm

Fußball wrote:Dani Alves has told his compatriots Alex, Thiago Silva, Marquinhos and Lucas Moura that he will join them at PSG next season. [md]

This happens every season. Won't say anything until it happens, really, though I hope it doesn't.

Personally would like for us to go after Sagna if Dani Alves does indeed leave. His contract is up at the end of the season and as far as RB's go, I rate him highly. I think he'd be the best option for us. The only thing that worries me is his age, but he's well worth taking on for a couple seasons- the man is a real presence on the right side for Arsenal in every game and I haven't really seen him slow down much. Attacking wise he's not as good as the likes of Alves either, but he's not bad either, and it will help balance out the backline to have someone like Sagna who is on par if not better than Alves defensively.
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Re: Role play

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu May 01, 2014 10:41 pm

Fußball wrote:Dani Alves has told his compatriots Alex, Thiago Silva, Marquinhos and Lucas Moura that he will join them at PSG next season. [md]
Smart move for PSG and at least they will pay up. Yet another nail in the coffin for the Rosell-Bartomeu era.

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Re: Role play

Post by futbol on Fri May 02, 2014 1:43 am

@CBarca wrote:
Fußball wrote:Dani Alves has told his compatriots Alex, Thiago Silva, Marquinhos and Lucas Moura that he will join them at PSG next season. [md]

This happens every season.

This time L'Equipe too are reporting that he has agreed personal terms with PSG. And this time I believe it. He openly criticized the board for Abidal, made stupid comments towards the fans, is in the last year of his contract and I still haven't heard a single rumour about renewal talks, not even close (he's on absurd wages as well which they won't bump again at his age). Plus his performances are detoriating except in GL Barca fans' eyes.

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Re: Role play

Post by Donuts on Fri May 02, 2014 2:11 am

him leaving would be a good thing, he isn't his old self, and the balance of our backline may become better if we get a lets say abidal of his role, someone physical, and able to play cb.
but this is hypothetical if he leaves and we get no replacement and stick with montoya then we're screwed.

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Re: Role play

Post by Winter is Coming on Fri May 02, 2014 4:53 am

lol found this at Barca forum. 2-5-3 Juventus style.



 hmm

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Re: Role play

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri May 02, 2014 5:02 am

I dont think a single thing about that line up makes sense Laughing

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Re: Role play

Post by Winter is Coming on Fri May 02, 2014 5:18 am

lol I was surprised with the amount of people agreeing with it on the Barcelona forum.

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Re: Role play

Post by Onyx on Fri May 02, 2014 5:34 am

Might as well replace Martinez with another forward and have the fullbacks attacking the same way. hmm

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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Fri May 02, 2014 11:56 am

When Dani Alves leaves and we replace him with an inferior player, it will be a sad day and another step on the Barca path of selling players who have a shred of athletic ability and physicality.

I sense another I told you so moment coming, sadly.

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Re: Role play

Post by futbol on Fri May 02, 2014 12:04 pm

@Winter is Coming wrote:lol I was surprised with the amount of people agreeing with it on the Barcelona forum.

That Barca forum is full of 12 year old kids, similar to goal.com. They went total apeshit because Ronaldo broke Messi's CL goal record and started discussions why Messi still deserves the Ballon d'Or this year. Started attacking a Real Madrid fan because he predicted Real Madrid to win the final. In another thread someone suggested Hummels would die to come to Barca just so he can play with Messi. Proud

That's why I avoid dedicated club forums. Laughing

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Re: Role play

Post by RealGunner on Fri May 02, 2014 3:51 pm

@The Franchise wrote:When Dani Alves leaves and we replace him with an inferior player, it will be a sad day and another step on the Barca path of selling players who have a shred of athletic ability and physicality.

I sense another I told you so moment coming, sadly.


What do you think about Danilo replacing Alves?

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Re: Role play

Post by Onyx on Fri May 02, 2014 4:00 pm

I was thinking Danilo too for RB. Haven't watched him much though.

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Re: Role play

Post by MaraVilla on Fri May 02, 2014 4:06 pm

How's Danilo's growth rate in fifa14  hmm 

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Re: Role play

Post by futbol on Fri May 02, 2014 4:11 pm

Alves hasn't got much athletic ability or physicality anymore. His aerial ability is really shocking to begin with. I don't think he has ever won an aerial ball in his life. His stamina has gone down the drain. He still attacks relentlessly but even then overlapping runs have disappeared from his reservoir. However a few years ago he was also coming back to defend with the same aggression which he doesn't (can't) do anymore. Just go and watch our most recent game against Villarreal. 2 goals from his side and he really is nowhere to be seen in defensive transition (for the 839958394th time). Yet 0 criticism on this forum. All kind of excuses ready though, I'm sure. "Can't expect to press high up and defend at the same time", "someone else should have covered him", blabla. I don't get it. Alba defends better than him because he picks his moments to venture forward but also speeds back to help out like a rabbit. This is a GL thing I guess.

If we want a pseudo winger playing rightback whose only defensive task is to press high up the pitch and defend by attacking then Cuadrado is actually a huge upgrade. Like really HUGE.

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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Fri May 02, 2014 5:57 pm

Danilo is a good player, but he is no Dani Alves (even Dani Alves today). But I mean, I dont see the point of that..surely the logic for replacing Alves is having a "more defensive minded righback" to balance out Alba's..whatever Alba does.

Danilo isnt really that.

And surprise surprise, I dont agree with futbol. Yet again, I dont know what he is watching.

His stamina is still the same as always when not injured. He stopped overlapping AGES ago, its nothing to do with stamina..its just cant cross and he is better at finding passes on the inside. You do those from the positions he takes up now, not on the flank via the overlap.

He isnt good in the air, but he never was. The physicality is shown in his relentless pressing which he still has, his quickness over 2-5m and despite being a small guy, does well in physical challenges.

Anytime he isnt back in his position, its because he either cant be in two places at once (disgraceful  Rolling Eyes ) or he hasnt shown awareness of runners (something you could genuinely criticise him for).

You stupid comments continue to amaze me though...not understanding basic tactics and can only cry "but the goal came from his side". smh
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Re: Role play

Post by sportsczy on Fri May 02, 2014 6:21 pm

First thing Barca need to fix is the pressing defense immediately after losing the ball...  that's about effort and the manager exerting his will.  

I don't think people realize that many of the great opportunites created for barca were caused by that quick turnover high up the pitch.  Also, the mental pressure put on the opponent was intense.  Now, opponents can breathe.

If that isn't possible, then you start by fixing the middle of the pitch first and then go wide.  So the CBs and the backup/replacement for Xavi have to be addressed first.  Mangala is a good one because he's a tough, young, no-nonsense defender with good experience already (experience counts a lot for me).  Replacing Xavi is impossible... and Thiago is gone.  So this one is a tough nut to crack.  Personally, i'd look to add athleticism because Busquets needs someone that can compensate for his lack of athleticism...  Pogba is a good young option there as he has good technique too.  After that, there's Rakitic if you want more of an offensive guy and Koke, whom i like a lot.

As far as Alves replacement...  i don't understand why you're selling him lol.  But if that's set in stone then there are very few options.  Fabinho at Monaco has been really good this season if you want a kid.  If you want more of a defensive guy, then Sagna is available for free no less.  Personally, i'd get Sagna (who can play CB too) with a kid in tow so that you can train the kid over the next 2 years.

All this of course depends on managament being rational Laughing

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Re: Role play

Post by dostoevsky on Sat May 03, 2014 2:24 pm

There have been some excellent responses here already and some excellent ideas to play with, however the goal of my post is to introduce some variety. This is not to say that I feel that some of the existing posts don't already provide excellent solutions. However given how unpredictable the transfer market can be, I want to explore some of the different paths Barcelona could take in renovating the squad.

The most pressing concern, most agree, is in central defence. Here I am simply going to go with the consensus rather than provide any exciting new ideas given the lack of names I've been able to follow lately. My personal preference here is Koscielny. I feel that Benatia, whilst he has had a wonderful season, represents the greater risk. He's yet to be truly tested and has looked shaky against Juventus and Napoli already this season. This is not meant to discredit him, however Koscielny has proven more and is the safer bet.

I personally would also look to bring in another central defender, this time searching for a cheap back-up option, someone who has room to grow but who has recently fallen out of the spotlight. The option I would present is Yanga-Mbiwa, who has been misused by Newcastle and might well be available, particularly if you wave someone useless such as Bojan at them. I'm sure there are other similar players, however my mind is drawing a blank currently unfortunately. I'd sell Mascherano to fund a move for Koscielny and retain everyone else.

CB Summary: (In) Koscielny, Yanga-Mbiwa (Out) Mascherano

Looking at the rest of the defence, I personally would look to sell Adriano given his injury record. For all of his quality, dependability is a key quality for a back-up and his injury woes are unlikely to improve. I would personally bring in an alternative to challenge Alba for a first team spot. My personal choice would be Domenico Criscito. The downside is that he has been out for a long time with a major knee injury and is still recovering form slowly, however at his best he's a wonderfully balanced fullback, easily amongst the top dribblers in the Italian national team who thrives on quick link-ups in the final third, but also capable of holding his position defensively. At right back, I would attempt to keep Alves, however if he were to leave I would also attempt to acquire Sagna. If he stays with Arsenal, I would make a move for Srna instead, who is only a year older and who similarly provides a solid defensive option on the right with the ability to push forward.

FB Summary: (In) Criscito, [Srna] (Out) Adriano, [Alves]

At goalkeeper, a deal for Ter Stegen seems wrapped up and Masip from the talk in this thread deserves promotion which offers an excellent low cost option.

GK Summary: (In) MaTS, Masip (promotion) (Out) Valdes, Pinto

In midfield, the major name I want to suggest is Verratti, who only Lari has mentioned to this point. It would certainly be a challenge to take him from PSG, however an approach should be made and given PSG's interest in Pogba might make them less apprehensive about losing someone, I consider it well worth the effort. Marco's approach to the game complements that of Barcelona splendidly. An ever calm nature on the ball, a determination to always play from the back and find a team mate rather than clear, beautiful technique, thrives in tight spaces and has a natural understanding of how to move and control a midfield. Defensively he can be quite rash at times, however he's mobile and tenacious. Experience is key to defensive solidity and this will develop naturally with time. With Thiago lost, Verratti is Barcelona's chance to make up for the loss of a midfielder who can dominate the game for years. It might be an unlikely transfer, but it's my fantasy choice for the post.

Elsewhere in midfield, I would keep Song and Fabregas if possible. If Song were to leave I'd seek Schneiderlin, however I personally think he's a capable back-up and the incentives to sell him are low. I would look to bring in a midfielder who can bring physical determination and hustle in the middle without sacrificing on technical quality. Having spent big on Verratti though, I propose a low cost venture in Michael Bradley, who is wasted in the MLS. Hard working, able to cover any central midfield position, a decent shot and a very decent passer, not to mention he's perfectly aged at 26. It's unrealistic to spend enormous sums on each position and to do so for a utility player would be a waste. Marquinhos and Pedro Obiang stand as alternatives, however there is absolutely no reason why Bradley wouldn't be a straight forward capture.

CM Summary: (In) Verratti, Bradley (Out) JDS etc

For a long time people have spoken of the need for some sort of Plan B in attack, however I'm opposed to the idea of having an attacker who can only be used in certain situations and will face extremely limited game time. For strikers in particular, game time is everything for maintaining sharpness and confidence. Not to mention that structurally, breaking the "bus" with a centre forward requires more than a target up front. Multiple targets in the box and runners from the deep to pick up the second ball represents too dramatic a shift in my eyes. What I do want to focus on is bringing in someone who provides flexibility up front, able to fit seamlessly into the current team without disrupting the balance or fitting the slight variation presented by the Milan game by playing the Villa role.

The player I would love as a manager would be Reus, however he's already been considered so I want to provide something different. Mueller would be a brilliant option to provide balance, however he's simply not leaving Bayern for Barca. The name I want to put forward is Rodrigo Palacio. A good finisher, capable of playing a lone role up front to occupy the central defenders or to pull wide and drop deep, his movement in the final third is excellent. Highly adept at linking up with his team mates and a very hard worker, he's an option who ticks the boxes without breaking the bank. My alternative would again be a bit unconventional in Danny Welbeck. Fast, good feet, flexible, excellent defensively as shown by his job on Xabi Alonso last season. Often overlooked, however he's an excellent squad player, if perhaps not someone I'd necessarily throw into the starting line-up. The forward line is not that big an issue though to be honest. One of Sanchez and Pedro may well need to leave, whether it be to finance a move for Reus or simply to make space for Palacio. Whoever commands the most realistic offers, likely Sanchez, should depart, along with any other forward deadwood such as Cuenca.

FW Summary: (In) Palacio (Out) Pedro/Sanchez, Cuenca etc

Potential Line-up

MAtS
Alves---Koscielny---Pique---Criscito
Xavi/Verratti---Busquets---Iniesta
Sanchez/Palacio---Messi---Neymar
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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Sat May 03, 2014 11:10 pm

I love Verratti, only didnt say him because I just assume PSG would never sell.

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Re: Role play

Post by alexjanosik on Thu May 15, 2014 4:01 pm

A bit late but my 2 cents.

First off,sell Messi.The guy is a clear liability now and has been for some time now.We wont win anything major playing with 10 men majority of the games.He is the biggest problem in the team now and the sooner he is sold the better.
Now,who comes in if Messi is sold.There are 2 options.Sell Messi and buy Suarez.He can do basically everything Messi does and works ten times harder.A terrific competitor who always wants to win,he will bring that edge and steel back to our forward line.
Sell Messi for 250 mil to PSG or City and buy Suarez for 100.
Neymar left,Suarez central and Alexis on the right.Barring height, that is a dream forward line and has everything and more.It would also add some much needed dynamism and movement to our forward line,something which is sorely lacking now because our superstar is too selfish to do anything for the team.

The other option is to sell Messi to Chelsea and get Hazard in return.Hazard + 200 mil for Messi.I have been very impressed with Hazard and think he would be an exceptional player for us.
Hazard on the left,move Neymar central and make him the main man,Alexis on the right.Again a very dynamic and complete forward line.

For our forward line,I would also buy Mandzukic to add some variety when needed.The guy is good enough to play our normal game but can also add some height and physicality when needed.
I am guessing 20 mil for Mandzukic.
Sell the likes of Tello,Cuenca,Afellay,Bojan etc.I am guessing we can get 30 mil for the lot of them.

Sell Fabregas for 60 mil.And no I am not crazy.If the likes of Mata and Ozil go for 50,then Fab should go for more.
Get Kroos for 30 mil and maybe a dynamic B2B midfielder.Vidal might be out of bounds.Maybe Rakitic.he is from La Liga so wont have trouble adjusting.I really like Henderson and wouldnt mind buying him.
Sell Song,Sergi Roberto and JDS.Combined they can fetch around 30-35 mil.

Coming to the defense,sell Pique and Masch.Masch is an obvious choice.Pique might be debatable but he is far too inconsistent and is just not competitive enough.I hate slackers and after Messi, Pique is the biggest slacker on the team.So Pique needs to be sold too.Sell Masch for 20 mil and Pique for 40 mil.
Buy Benatia,Hummels and a young prospect(not sure who). Hummels for around 40 and same for Benatia.
Sell Alba and buy a good defensive LB with height.Felipe Luiz would be ideal.There are not a lot of known options around.

Also bring back Rafinha and Deulofeu from loan.

Inflow:
Messi:250
Fab:60
Tello,Cuenca,Afellay,Bojan:30
Song,Sergi Roberto,JDS:35
Pique:40
Masch:20
Alba:25
Total:460

Outflow
Suarez:100
Mandzukic:20
Kroos:30
Henderson:25
Hummels:40
Benatia:40
Felipe Luiz:25
Total:280

Net Inflow:180 mil.Can be used for reducing debt or towards building new stadium.

Our starting 11/squad could look something like this.

Alves/Adriano Benatia/Bartra Hummels/Bartra Luiz/Adriano

Busquets/Samper
Xavi/Kroos Henderson/Rafinha/Iniesta
Alexis/Deulofeu Suarez/Mandzukic Neymar/Pedro


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Re: Role play

Post by BarcaKizz on Fri May 16, 2014 8:05 pm

City reportedly negotiating with Sagna and Benahtia... :smh:

Tbh Alex, you're a radical, but you always have very clear ideas and well argued. I can't argue with what you've said since I agree on Messi's efforts. I'd like to think there is another way around it though. Also, lets face it. The reality is we aren't going to let him go. However, given the role play idea, its a great response and an enjoyable one to read.

Koscielny has renewed with Arsenal so for me now, I'm looking at Sagna, Mangala, Benahtia, Balanta, Rakitic, Koke, Vidal (if possible) and Lukaku. Dani has also mentioned Vela, who I like and if its a possibility he is worth considering.

Mandzukic is also worth considering thats for sure, I'd happily have him as an option.
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Re: Role play

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri May 16, 2014 11:36 pm

Alex what convinces you Hazard is willing to put the work you require from him? On the odd chance I have seen him this season he doesn't seem to fit the criteria of the hard working forward you're looking for. I believe Mourinho even criticized his work effort publicly.

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Re: Role play

Post by alexjanosik on Sun May 18, 2014 4:32 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Alex what convinces you Hazard is willing to put the work you require from him? On the odd chance I have seen him this season he doesn't seem to fit the criteria of the hard working forward you're looking for. I believe Mourinho even criticized his work effort publicly.

I dont expect him to be a defensive workhorse.I expect him to press aggressively from the front,defend from the front and provide adequate cover to the fullback.I have seen him a lot and I think he is more than capable of that.
I think you are confusing the issue.Mourinho parked the bus and expected Hazard to be an Eto'o.You cant fault Hazard for that.We are not going to PTB and expect our forwards to play as secondary fullbacks.
Plus Mourinho himself praised hazard early in the season for his defensive work.
I have seen enough of him to know that he can do what needs to be done.Press relentlessly and defend from the front.

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Re: Role play

Post by messixaviesta on Sun May 18, 2014 9:47 am

I can't hold a huge banner saying sell Messi. Instead I am trying hard to work out what the formation should be so that all the elements work well and am not able to come up with anything conclusive.

What I will say though is I see no future with Messi as a false number 9. Whether we blame the way he plays nowadays or whether it was simply a system that worked brilliantly for a short time but just couldn't be sustained is a different matter but now surely I want to do away with it. A center forward is a must the way I see it. Not just for a plan B but for a plan A, one who is meant to start each and every important game. So where does Messi go then? We can't put him on the wings because he doesn't want to play there and/or doesn't want to run that much. I can only see him as a second striker now. His goal return may drop but that is one sacrifice we should ask him to make.

The other key problem is the midfield dynamics. Let's say it flat out straight - Iniesta and Fabregas together just does not work and will 99% not do so in the future either. When Fabregas was bought I thought he would try to learn the Xavi role but he has insisted on being what dani so aptly termed a "goal hanging midfielder". So playing like this we just won't get the best out of Iniesta. In fact one of them should be sold. Now of course I would say that should be Fabregas who never should have been bought in the first place but if people want the younger player to stay then I can't believe I am saying this - sell Iniesta. It can give Barca some of the funds needed to rebuild. We shot ourselves in the foot by selling Thiago. If he had been there Xavi could have been kept fresher for the big games and Iniesta could have played in a dynamic more suited to his strengths. So now we need to search the market for a deep lying midfielder. Xavi can pull for a year or two but I don't know how much more burden we should place on the maestro. We really need to look at deep lying midfielders, preferably this summer itself.

A central defender is of course needed, likely two. I wouldn't like to depend on a left back like Alba who relies on pace to cover up for his lack of defensive prowess. At least one quality defensively solid full back, left or right, is needed.

With all this what should the formation be? I really don't know. If we play say a 4-4-1-1 then where does Neymar go? So then let's change it to a 4-3-2-1, Ancelotti's Christmas tree formation. Messi and Neymar behind a new center forward. Alexis, if he stays, to rotate with all and get sufficient minutes. This formation will need width from full backs. So Alba in an attacking sense will be useful and Alves also for as long as he stays. Still we can't leave the defence vulnerable and have two fully attacking full backs.

Just a few random thoughts I have put together. Nothing is very clear in my mind. So there is no question of convincing anyone. Instead perhaps discussing with others and getting to know their ideas will help to shape up things more concretely.

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Re: Role play

Post by futbol on Sun May 18, 2014 3:16 pm

I agree with buying a striker and playing him infront of Messi as a plan A. False 9 worked at first because the centerbacks didn't know whether to step out and follow Messi into midfield (and leave gaps behind where Pedro and Villa made diagonal runs into) or not. It had a big surprise element. But now everyone, even relegation teams, know what Messi is going to do and how to handle the false 9 tactically. Now he's crowded out by 2 defensive midfielders and 2 centerbacks all alone upfront. Whenever he receives the ball 2 or 3 players collapse on him immediately. Pep saw this issue even back in 2011 and he introduced 3-4-3 (Messi behind Alexis Sanchez in the Bernabeu for example). Tito used it too against Milan (Villa infront of Messi).

BUT: I wouldn't change the formation. Changing formation and playing Messi deeper would automatically make Iniesta obsolete and require a double pivot to make up for Messi's lack of workrate and we'd be playing pretty much 4-2-3-1 like a counterattacking team.

I would keep 4-3-3 and buy a right "winger" who is actually a striker but versatile enough to play wide as well (like Villa basically). That means in defensive transition he would track back on the wing but offensively he would play in the center mostly with a very attack-minded rightback providing the width. Cavani would fit that bill but Cavani doesn't want to play wide and second-fiddle even at PSG from what I've read and would cost a fortune anyway which he isn't worth. Another option would be Suarez who can play everywhere on the pitch. But he'd cost even more of a fortune. So I don't know. But that's what I'd do from a tactical point of view.

I guess it could even work with Alexis and Tata has simply not figured it out and refused to use him centrally for whatever reasons although that's where he thrives most for Chile and did so at Udinese and when Pep used him in 3-4-3.

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Re: Role play

Post by The Franchise on Sun May 18, 2014 4:04 pm

Its not just the opponant knows what to do, they know what Messi will do and where the mistake is. The holds the ball too long and drops too deep, which negates their decision making.

He drops so deep (and doesnt make a secondary run), a midfielder will pick him up, not a defender, and that means there is no space to run into for any of the forwards. Sure, a midfielder picking Messi up means they are outnumbered in the midfield, but with a solid block of 4, all that means is they are leaving Xavi or Busquets with the ball but with no threatening option to pass to.

And because there is nothing in front of Messi, he has to get past the midfielder marking him and STILL has a defence in front of him.

You do need to cause the destabliazion of the lines, by introducing a striker if Messi doesnt offer the secondary run. That keeps the CB in place and if Messi is able to turn in the midfield, offer him more space or a forward passing option in behind.

But as you explained, the other changes it causes in the midfield is unacceptable.

So I agree with your tactical change. That Right-wing pseudo striker.

I think there are 3 options in my mind. One is better coaching, a coach who some innovation and ideas. Alexis is a player who shows the ability to do this.

2 other options for me, provide vastly different things. One is Carlos Vela. Sometimes a striker, sometimes a wide forward...he runs, he can dribble and he sure can finish.

A second is the improving Lukaku like someone mentioned already in another thread. His still raw touches will frustrate people from time to time, but his physical power gives us a secondary option without critical changes. If not for Martinez, would never have even considered it, but it seems he has developed alot.

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Re: Role play

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