Luis Enrique

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:58 pm

alexjanosik wrote:We only need to kick one player out of the team.No prizes for guessing who.

I am not completely against the idea of selling Messi. For too long we have been called a one man team, a term I see as an insult even though I can understand why people are using it, and this would certainly give us a chance to be a team again.

The money we will get can help to pay off debts and build for the future.

Messi can get fresh motivation with a new challenge.

It could be a win win for all, not least the club that buys this phenomenon, on the lines of what happened when Juventus sold Zidane.

The big problem though is that it could lead to a conflict in the dressing room since many of these players have been with Messi for years and sort of worship him. I think if this is done some of the old guard will have to be moved on.

Whether Messi is sold or not, the likes of Iniesta and some others, can certainly be moved on. They'll probably benefit with a new environment and fresh challenge while we'll get a chance to rebuild the team. The transfer ban makes these things even more difficult than they already are.

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:02 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Sorry to chime in.

I'm in no way an expert on either tactical/coaching matters nor football in general lol, so consider this a layman's outsider addendum.

But I'd repeat something I said after similar 'big game' defeats of yours, like against us 2013.
Imo you simply have to somehow consider that your team is in its backbone basically still the worldbeating team of Pep, but it must be considered to be pretty much over it.

Allegedly Pep was asked about our semi thrashing of you, and he said the difference was 'motivation'.

Now all of this is hard to measure and not straightforward.

But I think you cannot underestimate the importance of motivation for playing with intensity, as you demand.
Just a tiny little bit less determination and motivation leads to just a tiny little bit less intensity, then you lose challenges, you lose momentum etc.

This can be seen at play within single games (typical examples, a team that has a high lead and then 'takes the foot off the gas' and then the other team all of a sudden is the stronger side; or our home defeat against City last December, 2:0 up after 10m, stop playing with intensity, lose the momentum, lose the game).

It can be seen within seasons (our breakin straight after the league win last season) (sorry for the selfcentered examples but these are the ones I know)

And it can be seen in the cycle of teams I think.
Fact is, your team won everything over and over again, in fantastic fashion. Lauded by all, top of the world.

Then Pep leaves, which means the end of an era by itself; plus players get older. On top of them getting older, how exactly can you expect them the same absolute height of motivation and determination, as players and personalities, as they had?

Something would have to happen, some kind of input, some kind of change up.
Maybe some might have to look for a new challenge at another club. (look at Alonso)
Maybe some just need a rest on the bench for afew weeks, and pressure from new blood, new up and coming players.
Maybe something else.

But there has been not enough new blood in your team. Who are the players REALLY challenging Busquets, Iniestas, Messis spots?
You now bought Rakitic but for the big game Xavi is again on the pitch.
Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, like 5 years ago.

Now I know this is hard since they're all absolute GOATS whose greatness will possibly not really be reached by anyone else, but at some point somethings got to give.

Because else it's no surprise you're picking your brains why that little bit of intensity is missing.

Same goes for Spain NT. It was GOAT in lockstep with Barca, using their backbone.
This Barca team is a THING OF THE PAST, no matter to which degree individually and in detail.
Del Bosque failed to realize that, and kept fielding it.
He should have banked on players from Real, Atletico etc instead of the Barca old guard.
And Barca need a new guard too.

And even if you feel the new guard is not as classy as the old (both Barca nd NT), you still need a transition.

Because motivation plays such a huge part in football.

In few other sports lower class teams can beat top teams in a cup etc, all because of motivation and intensity.

Sorry for the long post, that's meant as a global observation and not to deny any other concrete problems/solutions.

Long story short, it would have been down to meaningful squad planning impulses from the board, which failed. I don't need to tell you.
But it is hard to let go of such a good thing as you had, and because it was so good the players have of course accumulated player power.

Immense post. Made bold the line that I think is the crux of everything.

Read many years ago that football teams work in short cycles and a largely unchanged team just can't be successful for long. Have seen this happen to many clubs over the years and now it's happening to us.

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:07 pm

alexjanosik wrote:Its time to see the writing on the wall.Guy is a scrub and completely clueless.We are playing like garbage and he is doing nothing.Knows nothing of tactics and can be outcoached by any decent manager.
Sooner he is sacked and someone competent brought in the better.

Whatever little I have seen this season to my eyes we have seemed a team completely dependent on individual ability. It's all about the forwards, who often drop back wherever they like, and after that they take the ball and try to work some magic. They may sometimes combine not too badly but anything great that may come out is usually due to something exceptional from one of those three marquee players. We don't seem to be a team at all. We don't seem capable of winning as a team when it matters. If in the off match we beat one of the big boys it'll almost surely be due to some individual brilliance.

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:30 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Katy Perry wrote:I actually think Barca shouldnt have a coach, directors, anything. Let the players decide everything
We tried that in the Roura era. It was a disaster. Players stopped taking care of themselves, stopped training as hard, we lost our edge, injuries went up, fitness was a huge problem. We lost 0-7 vs Bayern.

Yeah let's not do that again.

Excellent comments


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Post by futbol Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:37 am

Barca are the team that has conceded the fewest headed goals (1) in the Liga this season #fcblive

I've noticed this for a while now. Barca's set piece defending has improved dramatically under Lucho. Last season in March:

Barcelona are the team that concede most of their Liga goals from set pieces (48%) and corners (38%) this season #fcblive [via opta]

It was ridiculous. Still remember Martino's explanation:

Martino: "Problem at set pieces? Only solution is not to concede them... That or the players suddenly being 8-10 centimetres taller."

Don't think Rakitic and Mathieu made all the difference, neither is a definite starter, Xavi and Mascherano are still used quite a lot.

Offensively the set piece taking has also improved. Already scored 6 goals in La Liga from set play situations. The entire last season 8.

The defense in general is quite good. Bravo has very little to do. Only 1.50 saves per game. That's considerably less than Casillas (2.4) and even lower than Courtois (1.58) and Neuer (1.59). Valdes last season had to make 2.31 saves. Deserves credit for this.

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Post by neuro11 Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:02 pm

2 win out of 2 vs one of the best defensive/physical team in the world....:coffee:
Lucho >>>> Tata bounce

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Post by adamdar Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:03 pm

messixaviesta wrote:

The big problem though is that it could lead to a conflict in the dressing room since many of these players have been with Messi for years and sort of worship him. I think if this is done some of the old guard will have to be moved on.

Agree with this. If Messi goes Neymar and Suarez will kill each other. Iniesta and Xavi will lose their power to command (eventually). If Neymar or Suarez becomes main star of the team Pique and others will not listen to them or worship them. There will be fights over free kicks and many many things

If Messi goes other older barca dudes also must go. Otherwise we will see new super stars vs old stars war

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:20 pm

AS wrote:What has changed at Barca? Have you talked amongst yourselves to bring Barca forward?

Some truths have been told to improve the situation. There were some frictions between Leo and the mister. They are moments that every team goes through at some point during the season. The good thing is that the manager was able to manage the tension well and everything has come back to normal. It helped that the victories came at this moment and that has helped us a lot too.

You speak of tensions. Were they strong? What were they, exactly?

Above all it was during a training at the beginning of the month. Just after the return from the vacations. Suddenly, because of a foul not called by the coach in a training match, Messi got his wires crossed and there were frictions between the two. The things that must be said were said. Luis Enrique went to speak with Leo after in the changing room and everything was fixed. I repeat, this is something that happens in every team, but since it happened at Barca it got a lot of attention and was blown out of proportion.

http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2015/01/29/primera/1422543377_104157.html?id_externo_promo=canchallena-dsp-as

Mathieu pretty much confirms that  the crisis started with a disagreement over a foul that LE did not call on Messi Laughing
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Post by windkick Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:42 am

All that he had to do is keep a set 11 and the players would gel. That's exactly what he's done since the Messi bust up and we have been on a curb stomping roll. First half of the season he kept rotating EVERY single game, and the players weren't responding to it.

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Post by Cruijf Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:39 am

It's not just that windkick. There's a visible change in the motivation of the entire team, most notably Messi. Don't think I've seen the team play with such intensity since Pep, or in rare isolated matches like when you overturned our 2-0 lead a couple years back. That has to come back to Enrique; as clueless as he may have seemed he's gotten the team fired up.
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Post by Donuts Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:43 am

messi has been playing like this since the first game of the season and people said his "hunger" will die down, which has been untrue he has been constantly pressing since day one.
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Post by Donuts Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:50 am

enrique has been hot and cold, first couple of games were okay, the loss against madrid and psg in the first match were stumbles and whatever the hell happened during the week of real sociedad was the lowest point but he's slowly making up for it.

have to see how this guy finishes up the season.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:23 am


I really hate it when people bring up the "Enrique played 25 different line ups in 25 matches" stat (if it's even true, I'm pretty sure some starting elevens were repeated, just not consecutively) because this is exactly what Pep did and back then it was a virtue and now it's somehow a weakness. Not to mention, a lot of those were conditioned by injuries that prevented those first elevens from being repeated.
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Post by Donuts Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:34 am

wasn't just a starting 11 difference though, was that sometimes messi on the right sometimes midfield sometimes middle.
we would sometimes play 3 a the back, mascherano in dm, mathieu in lb.

or we would do double pivot..
so much inconstancy i assume it was lucho testing out all his options in the first half but it really did cost us several points.
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Post by MaraVilla Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:22 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
AS wrote:What has changed at Barca? Have you talked amongst yourselves to bring Barca forward?

Some truths have been told to improve the situation. There were some frictions between Leo and the mister. They are moments that every team goes through at some point during the season. The good thing is that the manager was able to manage the tension well and everything has come back to normal. It helped that the victories came at this moment and that has helped us a lot too.

You speak of tensions. Were they strong? What were they, exactly?

Above all it was during a training at the beginning of the month. Just after the return from the vacations. Suddenly, because of a foul not called by the coach in a training match, Messi got his wires crossed and there were frictions between the two. The things that must be said were said. Luis Enrique went to speak with Leo after in the changing room and everything was fixed. I repeat, this is something that happens in every team, but since it happened at Barca it got a lot of attention and was blown out of proportion.

http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2015/01/29/primera/1422543377_104157.html?id_externo_promo=canchallena-dsp-as

Mathieu pretty much confirms that  the crisis started with a disagreement over a foul that LE did not call on Messi Laughing


Mathieu is out for remainder of the season with a mysterious injury hmm
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Post by Deja Vu Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:06 am

Jeremy not so smart, is he?
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Post by Bankz Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:18 am

Mathieu.
LOoOoOoOoOoOoOL.
When will these guys ever learn? Even I can predict barcas actions from my couch ffs.
I suspected something was coming to him after that comment.. Barca becoming like a cult ffs.
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Post by Deja Vu Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:14 am

Bankz wrote:Mathieu.
LOoOoOoOoOoOoOL.
When will these guys ever learn? Even I can predict barcas actions from my couch ffs.
I suspected something was coming to him after that comment.. Barca becoming like a cult ffs.


What are you talking about? If you're referring to Maravilla's post, it was a joke lol.
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Post by Katy Perry Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:46 am

Are people still doubting Luis Enrique?
Barca beat Atleti comfortably THRICE in a row, in la Liga, in CdR, at Camp Nou, at Calderon, is one point off Madrid and pretty much in the CL quarters as City is a joke in the CL.

LOL at blaming him for Real Madrid and PSG losses. Main reason Barca lost those is because they conceded 2 goals from set-pieces in both matches, hardly Luis Enrique's fault.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:59 am

Donuts wrote:wasn't just a starting 11 difference though, was that sometimes messi on the right sometimes midfield sometimes middle.
we would sometimes play 3 a the back, mascherano in dm, mathieu in lb.

or we would do double pivot..
so much inconstancy i assume it was lucho testing out all his options in the first half but it really did cost us several points.
Mathieu was signed as a CB/LB option, nearly half this section has wanted to see Masche in DM at some point over the seasons, many here wanted to consider 3 at the back, etc.

In either case Pep screwed around with the formation a lot too, a lot of times without prior warning in big matches, and again when he did it he was praised for it.

With Tito we always complained he would start the same eleven, then Martino came and we praised him for rotating, then LE came and we complain that he's rotating. Wut?
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Post by futbol Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:25 pm

I have 0 problems with his rotations. Maybe for the goalkeeper spot (but even that works well so far). Apart from that he didn't do much wrong in that regard. Xavi is 35 and can't play every game so he gets rotated => logical. Rafinha is too young and inexperienced (not to mention also injured from time to time) so he doesn't walk into the starting lineup => logical. Iniesta was injured for 4+ weeks so in that time we've used Busquets-Mascherano in some big games (e. g. away to Valencia, the only team to beat them there). Suarez was suspended so we experimented with Munir, Sandro and Pedro. Mathieu at leftback was something that HAD to be tested. Didn't work but in theory it should have.

Maybe you can criticize that he experimented in tough games (PSG, Clasico, Valencia away) but meh. Experimenting against Elche is pointless. Gap in quality is too big to analyse the tactical modifications in such games. You could play Jordi Alba at CB and get away with it against Elche.

I've said it before and I say it again. The improvement in set pieces is amazing. Both defensively and offensively. 20 league games, 1 set piece conceded and Pique is scoring from set pieces now. Even scored one against Atletico, fss.

If Iniesta doesn't improve and we're going to play as direct as in the first half in the Calderon I'd pick Busquets-Mascherano-Rakitic in midfield for tough away games.

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Post by Donuts Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:14 pm

people praised pep because it worked
it's only natural for lucho to get backlash on experimenting in the hardest league game of the season (madrid away from home)

there is also a difference between rotation and changing a players overall position, with a team of what could be 4 new starters (suarez, GK, mathieu, rakitic) constant rotation / changing position makes it hard for them to get even gel with the team.

tbh rakitic is finally hitting massive form but it's really only because xavi got injured and he finally got to play 2+ games in a row.
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Post by Ganso Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:30 pm

my 2 cents is that rotation isn't LE's problem, its when he does it. I honestly think you guys would be above madrid in the table atm if he started Messi and Neymar at the Anoeta for example. One of the toughest games of the season and he starts Munir, Pedro and off form Suarez.
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Post by The Franchise Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:59 am

Get outta here.

Ganso just said it. The players did nothing for 2 weeks before, we struggle every game vs La Real away and he leaves the best two players on the bench.

And we are wrong to criticise that and say those rotations are stupid?

Nah. Thats well within normality. That was a stupid move without any excuse.


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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:02 am

Theres a difference between getting one line up wrong and his entire rotation policy being wrong. Yes, Messi and Neymar should've started against La Real. Everyone agrees on that. But in general his rotations have made sense.
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Post by The Franchise Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:15 am

That wasnt the only game he got wrong, lets be fair.

That just the more recent and obvious one to chose from.

PSG was wrong, Pique on the bench. Mascherano in the middle, Alba starting..set peices...crosses...alrighty then..couldnt see this coming.

Madrid, starting Suarez was wrong. Terribly wrong.

Celta Vigo I wouldnt say was wrong, though we lost..but I mean, Rafinha and Rakitic starting together wasnt right but I aint mad at him trying it at that stage.

Valencia was certainly wrong. Mascherano and Busquets with Xavi...dont care if its away from home, thats rubbish in my opinion. Who in that midfield is gonna break pressure and carry the ball?


I wouldnt call this rotation, I dont think rotation is a problem..its how, its the choices. Pep was wrong occasionally..but like, wrong x times in 4 years. Enrique wrong same number of times in half a season. There is a difference is all.
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