Pochettino new coach of Spurs

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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Glory on Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:50 pm

Making it sound as if no good team has gone out in the group stages of CL before Spurs. Laughing
Playing CL the first team with a young team. I prefer to give him the benefit of doubt. Yes they should have gone through ideally.
Anyway, that's why I specifically put 'how they fare this time around' part in there.
If they mess it up again, then yea may be. So far their display suggests they will be fine.

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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Ion Creanga on Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:16 pm

@Glory wrote:Making it sound as if no good team has gone out in the group stages of CL before Spurs. Laughing
Playing CL the first team with a young team. I prefer to give him the benefit of doubt. Yes they should have gone through ideally.
Anyway, that's why I specifically put 'how they fare this time around' part in there.
If they mess it up again, then yea may be. So far their display suggests they will be fine.

They've gone out before. But for a good team is not a minor blip to be knocked out in the groups, especially in an affordable group. It's a disaster.
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by CBarca on Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:25 pm

It's been a really long time since I've spent more than like 5 minutes on a post in GL so I guess now is the time to go all Casci on this shit

https://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/16/72/25/30/club_w10.png

Tottenham's wage bill (the, by far, largest predictor of where a team will end up during a season when you take a look at the results on a year to year basis) is 6th. It is about half that of the Manchester clubs and Chelsea. It is not far from half of Arsenal's, and while Liverpool and Tottenham are closer, Liverpool still beats out Tottenham by a full 40m pounds per year (that's the same difference as Tottenham and 7th placed Everton). Fair enough to say that wages aren't everything. Sometimes you get good players on cheap contracts and such, so if we look at net spend, maybe we can also see what the transfer strain has been on Tottenham. While Mauricio has been around 3 years, let's look at 5 years -- (http://www.totalsportek.com/money/premier-league-clubs-transfers-net-spend-last-5-years/)

On the link, you see that Tottenham's net spend over the last 5 seasons has been 16m for an average net spend of 3.2m per year. That's 19th of the 20 teams in the league.

This helps us paint a picture--Tottenham's arguably greatest period of the last probably couple decades as far as league finishes has been in the 3 years Pochettino has been here, all while building and financing a stadium. Remember when people were excusing Wenger's lack of trophies because of the Emirates building? It had merit, and in fact the pressure and scrutiny of Arsenal and Wenger has not come from that time frame, it's come primarily from the time frame past when the Emirates was built.

The players love him, if they didn't they would have jumped ship by now, as they've had opportunities and the only player they've lost is Walker who Tottenham fleeced City for. Mauricio has rebuilt the culture at Tottenham and has turned Tottenham into the dominant team in North London, something that hasn't happened since probably the 60's, who knows honestly. Look at recent North London derby's. He's turned Spurs into a team that gets results against the best teams. They used to only occasionally win against City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea--now Spurs can regularly take points from them. Spurs have been one of the most consistent teams of the last several seasons and I think have highest or second highest points tally over that same period. Even now in a new stadium Spurs are back in third just below the two Manchester clubs who have spent astronomical wages.

You can't judge a manager of a team like Tottenham based on trophy output. To do so is insane and idiotic. Spurs don't have the finances, the support, or the history to keep the biggest and the best players and bring in the truly top players that matter when it comes to winning titles. Sometimes it has been a downturn in luck (injuries have been prevalent--what might have happened if Harry Kane was not injured last year for months during the CL group stages and early part of the EPL season? Let's not forget Tottenham losing to Chelsea in a cup semifinal, a certain turning point being a clear Moses dive), a lot of the time is because the team is still getting there. See, as said, Spurs can't just buy a bunch of stars and get instant results. They don't have the blood/oil money of Russian or Arabian oil tycoons, or the power and branding of United. It takes a while to turn a team like Tottenham into one that can win titles.

That he has made a team that has the potential is extraordinary and a testament to his ability. The time to judge his ability to win trophies is now, and even then, could you blame him for not being able to win against City/United?

He only has a couple blips. A loss in the EL (a competition Poch hardly cares about and uses to try out youngsters), and a group stage exit in a group that everyone agrees was retrospectively more difficult than first thought. No one thought Monaco would be Ligue 1 winners and CL quarterfinalists, and Leverkusen is always a decent team. Should they have gotten in ahead of Bayer? Probably, but every coach has a bad moment, and let's not forget this is a young Spurs team with little to no CL experience. I'm not sure why the Leicester season counts against Tottenham when Leicester also beat the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, City, United and Liverpool, all who get a pass for some reason?

Mauricio has been the best manager in the EPL the last couple years. I think that's a statement one can make. To judge a manager of Tottenham because he hasn't won the EPL makes you look like a complete joke of a poster, gtfo lmao. Don't understand why people have such a narrow focus when it comes to a team, the difference between being a good manager and a bad one is apparently winning a joke Caraboo Cup at some point. Then again, if Poch had won a Caribbean Cup, you would probably dismiss it as  a mickey mouse cup, wouldn't you?
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 pm

Ain't nobody got time for all of that.

Poch turned Spurs 'into title contenders' in a season where 3 of his rivals had new managers and Arsenal have been on a decline in squad quality for years

Pochettino has been at Spurs for YEARS and won absolutely nothing, not only that - he hasn't even lived up to Redknapp's glory days. and Redknapp had the likes of Peter Crouch starting up top rofl

you can post whatever you want to excuse it but managers of big clubs are based solely on trophy output and Spurs and Poch have none to show, calling him the best manager in the PL in the last few years is sheer lunacy. He isn't managing some minnows, he's managing one of the best teams in the league WHO were an attractive destination for players before he even arrived there.


Last edited by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:54 pm

Cbarca :bow:
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:55 pm

oh and btw when Spurs went out to freaking Gent in the EL last season Poch wasn't starting youngsters, he had a full strength squad playing.
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by CBarca on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:44 pm

Firenze: Ain't nobody got time for all of that.

Poch turned Spurs 'into title contenders' in a season where 3 of his rivals had new managers and Arsenal have been on a decline in squad quality for years

CB: Was Poch's second year lol, is it that much better? The previous year he had been overhauling the squad and continued to do so that season. Spurs were an absolute mess post Bale with one decent AVB season to a disastrous half season combined with some lunatic named Tim Sherwood taking over. Poch had one season to try and get it together, then the next season is the season in question. To call Spurs a settled team compared to the others is revisionist and an excuse for you to pawn off Uniteds piss poor performance really Laughing

Firenze: Pochettino has been at Spurs for YEARS and won absolutely nothing, not only that - he hasn't even lived up to Redknapp's glory days. and Redknapp had the likes of Peter Crouch starting up top rofl

CB: This is wrong. Spurs finished fourth at their highest under Redknapp with less point totals than Pochettino has achieved. The only thing they won during that time iirc was ermm, CL qualification

you can post whatever you want to excuse it but managers of big clubs are based solely on trophy output and Spurs and Poch have none to show, calling him the best manager in the PL in the last few years

CB: Do you know what Spurs history is as far as trophies go? Why are you giving false equivalencies of Spurs to Barca, Madrid, Chelsea, United, Bayern Munich etc? You're only saying Spurs are a big club so you can shit on Pochettino. The only reason you're even calling Spurs a big club is because their extraordinary performance in the EPL recently, and that's 100% due to Poch.

Your argument is pathetic. Move on, I want something better.

I've shortened it up a bit for your comprehension.


CB: Every manager has blips. Gent was part of it but Poch routinely puts out weak sides in the EL. That one wasn't but Spurs were put out by a Kane own goal and a Dele red card before the first half ended. How is that game Poch's fault? I recall the great SAF and the great Man United losing comprehensively to Bilbao Laughing

edited for clarity
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:52 pm

Redknapp 2 top 4 finishes and a memorable CL run, losing to Madrid (also won Manager of the year during his stint there IIRC)

Poch 2 top 4 finishes and a league cup final loss

and Poch has an INFINITELY better team

so like I said, you can argue that he hasn't lived up to Redknapp's legacy there and you're talking about him being the best manager in the league in his last couple season

get out

oh and that Bilbao team was legit, don't compare that to being knocked out of the EL by a bunch of chocolate makers
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:56 pm

I'm not even shitting on Poch btw, I'm just not buying into this narrative of him being a GOAT lvl manager atm. He has achieved nothing during his career.

His squad is certainly no weaker than Liverpool or Arsenal's, and especially not Leicester's.
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by CBarca on Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:07 pm

Poch's team is only better because of poch though, how hard is that to understand?

NOBODY rated Danny Rose as a winger OR a left back before Poch. Walker was thought of as your run of the mill pacey right back who had a bright start to his career and faded to just another english RB. Poch revitalized the outside backs.

Alderweireld was brought in under Poch. He flopped at Atletico, did decent at Soton, turned into one of the best CB's in the league by Poch. Vertonghen was always a good CB but people had doubted his ability after Tottenham regularly conceded 5/6 against the best teams in the EPL the AVB/Sherwood season.

Eric Dier was bought during Poch's reign as a CB, was given his debut by Poch and then moved to DM and was a revelation.

Lamela had been perceived as a flop before Poch came in. He rediscovered his form under Poch before getting injured.

Dele Alli was bought and given the confidence of a starting place soon after under Poch. Nobody knew he would be as good as he is.

Harry Kane was an absolute nobody before Pochettino.

Watch Harry Winks become a good CM for Spurs now too.

Wanyama was brought in to improve the team by Pochettino specifically.

All you're doing is complimenting Poch when you say that. This Spurs team isn't that much better though. I'll agree it's a bit better (compliments to Poch on a job well done) but you realize that Spurs team had VdV, prime Defoe, Bale and Modric right? They were quite a good side, that's no lack of talent.

It's not about his squad being weaker than anyone else's. It's about the fact that Poch is the BIGGEST reason why Spurs have become a top team in the EPL recently and overshadowed Liverpool and Arsenal, who are spending even more money on wages and transfer fees than him. Poch made this Spurs squad and he turned them into a top 4 EPL team within one year after an absolute mess of a team with AVB/Sherwood.

It's been 3 years and Spurs are revitalized underneath him. There is no doubt he's one of the best EPL managers and he'll win something soon, again, it's been like 3 years. It takes a bit of time to go from shit team to top 4/league contending team especially when every other team is outspending Spurs by hundreds of millions.
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:10 pm

CBarca greatest poster in the history of the interweb ffs

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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Kaladin on Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:16 pm

To me, Poch is a B tier manager

B tier:
Sampaoli
Tuchel
Pocchetino
Pippo
Emery
Pardew
Jardim
Favre
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by iftikhar on Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:50 pm

ES wrote:To me, Poch is a B tier manager

B tier:
Sampaoli (Sevilla, Argentina)
Tuchel (Dortmund)
Pocchetino
Pippo Suspect
Emery (PSG)
Pardew eco smile
Jardim (Monaco)
Favre (Nice)
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:03 pm

Rose isn't very highly rated by anyone.

Kane was a highly rated youngster.

Lamela had like 1 month of good form in the last 3 seasons rofl he's a nobody, nobody even remembers him

Unreal clutching at straws. You're acting like he has developed a lot of these lads himself when in truth almost all of their important players were either highly rated youngsters like Kane who were called up because a large amount of his signings flopped or players already established at a good to high lvl

Lloris, Dembele, Vertonghen, Alderweirald, Son, Eriksen etc were all well rated players, then Alli, Kane were highly rated youngsters to that were given game time because his other signings were utterly trash..he didn't unearth any gems. These guys are who make the team btw

same with Dier, Wanyama etc who are absolute B list players, that he gave game time too because of scrubs he signed that didn't work out and these guys are system players. Dier? a revelation? banter

his signings have been decent though, much better than Loserpools and Arsenals in the same time which is a huge part of why he's doing better than them, Pool and Arsenal's signings have been shambolic, but you're trying to paint him in a light that isn't true - he isn't some genius unearthing talent, he's a solid coach who knows what he wants from his team. He's a B tier manager like ES says and will remain in that tier until he actually wins something.

He didn't inherit a West Brom. He inherited Spurs who had already finished in the top 4 a couple seasons prior. One season of finishing second doesn't even make them title contenders, Loserpool did that too a few years ago.

Spurs are in the same spot they were under Redknapp, competing for top 4.


Last edited by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:05 pm

and yes, Poch is one of the best managers in the league. But he is overrated, because you have people like yourself spouting nonsense like 'he's the best manager in the league over the last few seasons'

uh, Ranieri won the league with Leicester. Conte won it first season with Chelsea (I think player for player Spurs have a first 11 of comparable quality btw)

and yah Spurs are sensible with their wage structure but it doesn't mean too much, it just shows how ridiculous Liverpool and the rest are with their money

Liverpool are paying Oxlade 125K p/w for christ sakes.

He wouldn't even get into Spurs squad
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:24 pm

Lloris = Top 3 GK in the league, nothing to do with Poch
Vert = Best CB in the league IMO, nothing to do with Poch
Alderweirald = Top 5 CB in the league, was highly rated before Poch even joined Spurs, looks better than he is in Poch's system though
Dembele = One of the best CM in the league, nothing to do with Poch
Eriksen = best AM in the world, nothing to do with Poch
Sonaldo = slightly inconsistent but when he's at his best he's unstoppable, been that way before Poch signed him
Kane = Highly rated youth player. Not really anything to do with Poch. Started out of necessity when other strikers flopped hard but he was always well rated as a youth.
Alli = Highly rated youngster, not much do with Poch, good signing from him but you get the impression he would be the same player under any manager

These are Spurs best players with question

Rose, Dier, Wanyama etc? all B list players that perform well in Poch's system

and that's the thing..Poch is a good manager, he has a good system, knows how he wants his team to setup. Never denied that. I take issue with you pretending that Poch is a big influence on how these players have developed though.

You stick any very good manager in the Spurs hotseat with these players and they will finish top 4.

Poch inherited a very good team. made some signings that were perfect for the squad (props here, but he has just as many utter flop signings) he didn't revolutionize the team. He got them playing at the level they should have been but weren't under scrubs like AVB and Sherwood.
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Casciavit on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:25 pm

CB with dat ruthless aggression Proud

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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:31 pm

I used to wank Poch and Spurs hard too but I realized they are underperforming under Poch if anything, and while finishing second last season was impressive - it was overshadowed by humiliating European campaigns and early exits. Went out early, we saw the impact that had on Loserpool in terms of league performances. Their league finishes the last two seasons look good on the surface until you examine them IMO.
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Unique on Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:42 pm

NCbarca going for it in the poch thread cheers

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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Kaladin on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:01 pm

Melotrance going for the finisher

Completely agree on Poch, guy needs to do something relevant firstly.

Gasperini got Atalanta to play great last season and finished 5th, you don't see me banging drums about him.
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:02 pm

I don't see where these Mou comparisons are coming from? Obviously he's not as good as someone that won the CL with 2 different teams and has titles from all over the world. That's not the debate. The debate is whether Poch has earned the right to be called a top tier coach, and I think he has. No one that remembers Spurs before he got there can argue otherwise.

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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:09 pm

Nah. When I think of 'top tier' it's synonymous with elite, to me he isn't in that bracket. That's reserved for winners.

He's the tier below. But he is a very good coach.
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:21 pm

Unreal destruction by main man Firenze.


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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:23 pm

ES wrote:Melotrance going for the finisher

Completely agree on Poch, guy needs to do something relevant firstly.

Gasperini got Atalanta to play great last season and finished 5th, you don't see me banging drums about him.


How is being 2nd in the league for 2 years in a row not "relevant" Laughing GL suffering from amnesia as always

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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Kaladin on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:31 pm

Wake me up when he doesn't crash out of the group stages
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

Post by Firenze on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:45 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
ES wrote:Melotrance going for the finisher

Completely agree on Poch, guy needs to do something relevant firstly.

Gasperini got Atalanta to play great last season and finished 5th, you don't see me banging drums about him.


How is being 2nd in the league for 2 years in a row not "relevant" Laughing GL suffering from amnesia as always


Spurs finished third in 2016

lost 5-1 to Newcastle on the final day of the season
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Re: Pochettino new coach of Spurs

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