Re: Who will win the WC?

by Hapless_Hans Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:57 pm

BeautifulGame wrote:I can see half of GL going into depression mode if Spain manage to retain the WC

We have to be emotionally prepared for that. Seriously who is ging to stop those *bleep*.

2 teams in the CL final, 2 teams paired in the EL semi with one winning the thing.

They're simply above anyone else.

Brazil and Argentine will have a say in it of course, Brazil has to be favourite, but honestly... *bleep* SPAIN. AGAIN.

by Zealous Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:09 pm

The closest teams to beat the GOAT generation of Spain in a knockout game of a big tournament were Italy in 2008 (penalties), Paraguay in 2010 (Paraguay had a legit goal disallowed and missed a penalty) and Portugal in 2012 (penalties).

Basically you need to have a reliable back four and you need to have guys who can score penalties lol

by neuro11 Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:48 pm

Zealous wrote:The closest teams to beat the GOAT generation of Spain in a knockout game of a big tournament were Italy in 2008 (penalties), Paraguay in 2010 (Paraguay had a legit goal disallowed and missed a penalty) and Portugal in 2012 (penalties).

Basically you need to have a reliable back four and you need to have guys who can score penalties lol

why did you ignore Confed cup.....

by BeautifulGame Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:54 pm

Zealous wrote:The closest teams to beat the GOAT generation of Spain in a knockout game of a big tournament were Italy in 2008 (penalties), Paraguay in 2010 (Paraguay had a legit goal disallowed and missed a penalty) and Portugal in 2012 (penalties).

Basically you need to have a reliable back four and you need to have guys who can score penalties lol

Dutch came the closest in the WC final more than even Italy.A Robben one one one miss (or bottling) away from winning the world cup.

by McAgger Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:57 pm

I've had Germany as my pick. But that was before Reus got injured. I'm still going with them, but I've got France as my dark horse.

by Zealous Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:00 pm

neuro11 wrote:
Zealous wrote:The closest teams to beat the GOAT generation of Spain in a knockout game of a big tournament were Italy in 2008 (penalties), Paraguay in 2010 (Paraguay had a legit goal disallowed and missed a penalty) and Portugal in 2012 (penalties).

Basically you need to have a reliable back four and you need to have guys who can score penalties lol

why did you ignore Confed cup.....

Even the USA beat Spain in the confed cup. It's a joke trophy imo and doesn't really reflect the true level of International games.

BeautifulGame wrote:
Dutch came the closest in the WC final more than even Italy.A Robben one one one miss (or bottling) away from winning the world cup.

Robben bottling it is actually an extremely predictable scenario. I don't know, I just never felt that Spain were in serious danger in that game aside from that Robben miss.

In penalties anything can happen and in the Paraguay game Spain were extremely lucky not to be 2-0 down.

by Rebaño Sagrado Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:10 pm

Gil wrote:
And 3 World class defenders in Mascherano, Garay and Zabaleta at the back

LMAO

by BeautifulGame Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:13 pm

@Zealous

Didn't Portugal too lose to Spain in last Euros in penalties? In a match where Ronaldo missed an easy chance . Spain never looked like losing the Italy match imo. But Robben missing such an easy chance though , they really should have won it.

by sportsczy Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:40 pm

Defense wins WCs... not the attack although you need to score enough goals. The reason that Brazil became dominant in the 90s and early 00s was that they sorted out their defense. Reason they won the Confed Cup was defense. Heck, Italy always won with defense and France as well. Spain, for all its stars, has relied on its defense as well.

You just can't win a WC unless your goalkeeping and defense are top grade. It's not possible imo. You will always gets into a tight game sooner or later OR a pk shootout.

Argentina and Portugal have always had good attacks over many years. I don't feel that this Argentina is attack is any more prolific than Batistuta-Crespo-Ortega-Veron on the 1998-2002 era or Riquelme-Maxi Rodriguez-Tevez-Crespo-Messi of 2006, etc. The issue with Argentina has always been defense and goalkeeping. That's why they get knocked out. Portugal... same issue. Keeping and defense has always been suspect in WCs.

So for me, I'm watching to see how the defense and goalkeeping do in pool for these two teams. That will indicate their chances in elimination games.

by messixaviesta Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:49 pm

Lumiere_Blanche wrote:If we (Argentina of course, who else ) can get past that cursed QF stage then its gonna be our year. Dont really matter who we will come up against, we somehow will find a way to mess it up in the quarter final. Such is that jinx : Players will be wary of that, and it will take something special to get out of it. Portugal, Germany and all can easily beat us there. But if we can make it to the semis, we will see a different Argentina.. quote me on that.

The team when compared to the past two editions I think is much better and cohesive. Last time under Maradona especially it was like 11 players on the pitch playing 11 different way. So Sabella is a huge upgrade in that regard.

Also on the Left back position I heard Marcos Rojo is a nightmarish weak link. Is he that bad a player? He is rated 4 out of 10 in the fantasy league.
Anyone care to shed some light on him ? Dont exactly know much about the guy.

I think Germany will be the best European team and they can reach as far as the final. but wont win it.

Spain will be a flop and they will struggle to get out of that group. Btw I am surprised I havent seen a single comment about the Dutch on this thread. On their day they can beat anybody and can even top that group ahead of Spain. And in Chile you will find your dark horse, quote me again on that as well.

Italy is an interesting case. But then again thats the toughest group by a fraction. England is not certainly going to be pushover like many here are thinking. If Italy can get out of that group alive then they can reach as far the Semis.

France has the easiest draw Its like they can rest their main players and field their B team in the group games to prevent further injury. Such is the mediocrity of that group.Swiss will be their only challenge and that again is a very manageable challenge. So they should reach the QF. But anything beyond that well I am not so sure. But yea with France we never know.

I want Begium and Japan to do well. Hopefully they can reach QF.

Portugal true, they are much stronger than many people are thinking they are. and they will always try to punch above their weights. A semi spot wont be surprising at all and especially if its Argentina who they are up against in the QF . And also in this world cup they will be getting massive support, probably more than of all the European teams from the locals.

And Lastly Brazil, well they are going to be one of the finalists. Weather they will win it or not is a whole different thing.

A very interesting post.

Agree completely on the Argentina QF jinx and all the comments around that. I have said similar things in more than one post previously.

Argentina more cohesive than 2010? That's a no brainer. More cohesive than 2006? Perhaps not. That team when in full flow with Riquelme running the show was a treat for the eyes. However they didn't know how to handle tough situations, didn't have a plan B and were not mentally tough enough. Let's see if this team is better in those aspects. As Alfred said Sabella is a better tactician than Pekerman and that should help. Another thing I feel this team has is more star power. That team didn't have such a star struck forward line. Lastly the Messi factor. Let's not forget the impact a super genius of a player can have. It's not just about his performance but just his presence can lift up an entire team the way Ronaldo and Zidane did.

In my predictions I have the Dutch topping group B and Spain coming second. At the same time I agree that Chile could very much cause both problems and take the place of one of them.

I had earlier predicted that Uruguay would qualify at the expense of England but after seeing England's stress on youth and Uruguay bringing a weather beaten squad I changed that. I still don't see England as a threat to teams of the stature of Italy. I see Italy as a semi finalist at least if not a finalist.

I had France reaching the semi final but after Ribery's injury I am not so sure any more. Not having the motivation to redo my predictions on various threads due to that however.

Belgium I have said before I am quite sure is not going past the round of 16. Japan I have kept for qualifying from their group even though it will be difficult.

I completely agree that Portugal tend to punch above their weight and have said so many times before. For now I have kept them as losing quarter finalists to Argentina but in that match pretty much anything can happen especially given our QF jinx and the huge hype of Messi vs. Cristiano.

Will Brazil reach the final? Yes they could. I do feel they are not as good as people think they are. Also I have a feeling that they somehow won't win the tournament but that's just a feeling that cannot be elaborated in logical terms.

by messixaviesta Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:59 pm

A question slightly different but related to the topic of the thread.

Which team has the best squad at WC 2014?

At WC 2010 it was pretty much unquestionably Spain. For Spain now many of the names may be same but the fitness and form has deteriorated. So would you all say it is still Spain or would you pick some other team?

by Gil Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:06 pm

Spain easily have the best squad and it's not debatable. Germany a distant 2nd place.

IMO
1. Spain
2. Germany
3. Brazil
4. Argentina
5. France

by Le Samourai Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:13 pm

Definitely Belgium.

Most talented team in the tournament.

by Gil Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:13 pm

Not going to lie. I overrated Belgium alot, I still maintain few teams have better squads but it's the general play that worries me.

Their build up play is slow and rigid, they're not really a counter attacking team, movement and combination between the players is almost non-existent & their lack of fullbacks takes their greatest strength away (wingers).

They really need to sack Wilmots after this summer and not risk wasting away a Golden Generation like England, Ivory Coast and Portugal did. Squad unity can only get you so far.

by Zealous Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:21 pm

Algeria will beat Belgium imo.

by Gil Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:23 pm

Zealous wrote:Algeria will beat Belgium imo.

Nah, Belgium will easily win their group. It's against Portugal/Germany they'll get exposed.

by Zealous Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:32 pm

I didn't say Belgium wouldn't win their group lol

by FennecFox7 Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:37 pm

Zealous wrote:Algeria will beat Belgium imo.

by Glory Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:50 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
A very interesting post.

Agree completely on the Argentina QF jinx and all the comments around that. I have said similar things in more than one post previously.

Argentina more cohesive than 2010? That's a no brainer. More cohesive than 2006? Perhaps not. That team when in full flow with Riquelme running the show was a treat for the eyes. However they didn't know how to handle tough situations, didn't have a plan B and were not mentally tough enough. Let's see if this team is better in those aspects. As Alfred said Sabella is a better tactician than Pekerman and that should help. Another thing I feel this team has is more star power. That team didn't have such a star struck forward line. Lastly the Messi factor. Let's not forget the impact a super genius of a player can have. It's not just about his performance but just his presence can lift up an entire team the way Ronaldo and Zidane did.

yep you are spot on there. More than the cohesion, it was the psychological fragility that cost us in 2006. When you said it i realised it. Smile

Yea this team by what we are seeing and hearing is looking like lot tougher. So may be when facing a crisis, these guys can revert to a plan B. The bold decisions Sabella has made in selecting the team also gives out that strong message that this time its not about individuals (a recurring problem which has pegged this team back over the years) but instead its about the group as a whole.

messixaviesta wrote:
In my predictions I have the Dutch topping group B and Spain coming second. At the same time I agree that Chile could very much cause both problems and take the place of one of them.

Yea Chile I think will go through. The reason I said Spain is going to struggle in this group is because it has Chile in it. In Chile you have firstly a South American team who have the familiarity advantage and also the support, and secondly apparently having one of the best counter attacking and high pressing game out there, and all of a sudden Spain might struggle. It could very much be like a miniature version of that CL semi final between Real and Bayern. Of course Chile cant in any universe score 4 over Spain but dont really matter as I think a solitary goal might prove to be crucial and just about enough here. When they get the ball they can tear that Spanish defence into shreds with their speed and counter attack. A shock loss to chile and a draw against the Dutch (it being the first match, both teams will look to play safe, so a draw is a more likely outcome) and suddenly spain will find themselves in trouble. also Holland if they beat Chile, viola, Spain out in the group stage!

messixaviesta wrote:
Belgium I have said before I am quite sure is not going past the round of 16. Japan I have kept for qualifying from their group even though it will be difficult.

Yea a round of 16 is fair. Anything beyond that is gonna be a bonus. Very Happy

messixaviesta wrote:
I completely agree that Portugal tend to punch above their weight and have said so many times before. For now I have kept them as losing quarter finalists to Argentina but in that match pretty much anything can happen especially given our QF jinx and the huge hype of Messi vs. Cristiano.

yea if there is sucha match, I would say its for Portugal to K.O us. They will score an early goal and suddenly like Argentina of the past, every planning and strategy will get thrown out of the window players attacking mindlessly and individually and wasting chances and in the process conceding more and in the end losing by a 0-3 or a 0-4. Unless and until that newly found mental strength under Sabella comes to the rescue.

by El Gunner Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:01 pm

So far... Spain - 5
Argentina - 13

Get your https://i.servimg.com/u/f43/16/93/79/64/37329810.gif ready

by Glory Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:07 pm

sportsczy wrote:Defense wins WCs... not the attack although you need to score enough goals. The reason that Brazil became dominant in the 90s and early 00s was that they sorted out their defense. Reason they won the Confed Cup was defense. Heck, Italy always won with defense and France as well. Spain, for all its stars, has relied on its defense as well.

You just can't win a WC unless your goalkeeping and defense are top grade. It's not possible imo. You will always gets into a tight game sooner or later OR a pk shootout.

Argentina and Portugal have always had good attacks over many years. I don't feel that this Argentina is attack is any more prolific than Batistuta-Crespo-Ortega-Veron on the 1998-2002 era or Riquelme-Maxi Rodriguez-Tevez-Crespo-Messi of 2006, etc. The issue with Argentina has always been defense and goalkeeping. That's why they get knocked out. Portugal... same issue. Keeping and defense has always been suspect in WCs.

So for me, I'm watching to see how the defense and goalkeeping do in pool for these two teams. That will indicate their chances in elimination games.

woaaa!!... thats like one awesome post. Couldnt agree more there. :bow:

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:07 pm

sports wrote:Argentina and Portugal have always had good attacks over many years.

Yeah right, look at our 2002 defense: Ayala, Sorin, Zanetti, Pochettino, Samuel. Clearly the best defense we've had in years. And yet we went home at the group stage.

Zealous wrote:
This is why I am praying for an Argentina vs Portugal match (on the condition that Pepe is 100% fit)

I think it would be the most epic WC game in a years

I actually think this is a possible, even likely match to happen, right?

by M99 Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:08 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
sports wrote:Argentina and Portugal have always had good attacks over many years.
Yeah right, look at our 2002 defense: Ayala, Sorin, Zanetti, Pochettino, Samuel. Clearly the best defense we've had in years. And yet we went home at the group stage.
Zealous wrote:
This is why I am praying for an Argentina vs Portugal match (on the condition that Pepe is 100% fit)

I think it would be the most epic WC game in a years

I actually think this is a possible, even likely match to happen, right?

Very likely. Argentina finish 1st and beats Switzerland/France. Portugal finishes 2nd and beats Belgium/Russia.

by Ganso Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:49 pm

although I'm not one of the Begium fanboy's, you never know who could come out of that Belgium vs Portugal match.Hell, i honestly think that Switzerland could give Argentina some shit.

by rwo power Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:26 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:We have to be emotionally prepared for that. Seriously who is ging to stop those *bleep*.

If there is a team who can stop Spain, it would be Switzerland :coffee:

Now we only have to see if they will be able to meet them on the way before Spain runs into Germany...

by messixaviesta Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:53 am

Lumiere_Blanche, excellent replies. I agree with pretty much everything you said.

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