Who will win the WC?

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Who will win the WC?

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Total Votes : 32

Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by Adit on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:00 pm

Brazil or Spain surely.

France- Semi Final at best. Their attack is not a functioning one, Ribbery does not complement Benzema. Ribbery needs a target in the box while Benzema is best suited out side the box, their attack will be as useless as in Euros and DMzema will be back again. I support them along with Spain and Portugal thos tournament but their lack of team game is apparent.

Argentina- They will get knocked out by Portugal if they meet them, if they can somehow avoid portugal then they will get spanked by the next big team they face. Cant see that team winning a world cup with lot of average players in many positions.

Germany- They could reach the finals and they will definitely feast on the smaller teams but i have doubts on their defenders. Individually none of their defenders are reliable apart from Lahm ,even he isnt that great defender.


Italy-Very high chance of winning the cup. They simply have to avoid spain on the way to final...could see Italy even defeating the Brazilians.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by Ganso on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:09 pm

Thank God we won't face Italy at least until the final.Believe it or not, but I'm more worried about the likes of Italy and England than Germany,Spain and Argentina etc.Italy haven't beaten us in decades but they can pull a rabbit out of their hat when it comes to grinding out results.
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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:04 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:England got 3 votes  Laughing 

If people are voting out of optimism then I'd say it defeats the purpose of such a poll and if they are serious then ... I am just baffled.


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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:19 pm

@DuringTheWar wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:Lastly Spain's era just has to end now because if it continues beyond this point it will sort of exceed limits of human possibility.


A team has won two world cups in a row before. I still think Spain are at least equal favourites as anyone else

Well this last happened as far back as 1962 and football has evolved so much since then. The closest any country has come is Brazil in 1998 where they were top favourites right since the start of the tournament and the final was considered a major upset. Their difference with Spain is that we are not playing at that level now and are not favourites at all. If you look at the history of the last few world cups often the previous winner is clearly not good enough to win it again. In four years a lot changes. In 2010 nobody gave Italy a prayer quite rightly. In 1994 Germany were hardly considered capable of winning it. In 1990 Argentina were horrible and although they did make it to the final it was one of the ugliest runs to the final ever. In 1986 Italy had fallen too low. In 1982 Argentina were nowhere near the best. In 1978 neither were Germany. In 1974 even Brazil had slipped standards badly. We could go on. A special case was 2002 when the defending champion was considered the top favourite but ended up as the greatest disappointment in world cup history. Another special case was 2006 when again the defending champion was the top favourite but their callous attitude thankfully sent them home sooner rather than later. Even more importantly before Spain no country had won three top international tournaments in a row. That in itself is an all time record. So to win a world cup and make it a fourth is simply put stuff that mortals cannot be capable of. The law of averages cannot be pushed away for ever. It happened to Barcelona after reasonable time. It happened to Bayern much quicker. Spain has been the most resistant but how much longer? In international football only Brazil and France in the last few years have managed anywhere near this kind of consistency. France's run lasted from 1998 to 2002. Brazil's run lasted first from 1994 to 1998 and then from 2002 to 2006. If things have not already changed then it's the world cup where the world order changes. How long can Spain's run which is already six years possibly continue? Then even looking at the various aspects of the team not that we are too bad but we are clearly inferior to what we were in 2010 in several areas.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:23 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Judging by this thread Argentina are really over rated and Spain severely under rated.

What a contrast between my 2 favourite teams!

Argentina - Little achievement in the recent past and immense promise now

Spain - Immense achievement in the recent past and little promise now


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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:23 pm

@neuro11 wrote:Agree that Argentina is overrated, infact i wonder where all these thought of Argentina winning coming from. But Spain is no way underrated....people are rating them the way they should be....do you even really believ in Spain winning it again??
can you explain to me how they have declined so much in just two years? Not to mention that most of their squad had a very good season, many of them winning titles.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by Don't call me James on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:27 pm

This is how I rank teams chances

Germany
Brazil
Argentina
Spain
--------------------
France
Italy
--------------------
Uruguay
Chile
Colombia
England
Netherlands
Portugal
--------------------
the rest

Think Brazil, Argentina, Spain, and Germany can all win it tbh. This is one of the toughest World Cups to call imo.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:36 pm

@neuro11 wrote:Agree that Argentina is overrated, infact i wonder where all these thought of Argentina winning coming from. But Spain is no way underrated....people are rating them the way they should be....do you even really believ in Spain winning it again??

Spoke too much about Spain already. So let me answer your question about where these thoughts about Argentina are coming from.

1. Messi's date with destiny - it's now or never if he is to unquestionably become one of the greatest players of all time if not the greatest because you can't participate in international football sufficiently and continue to remain a "flop" and then be called an all time legend. He has always been seen as Maradona's successor. Winning on Brazilian soil will mean surpassing Maradona. It's a once in a life time opportunity that few will ever get. As rg said this has got to be MESSI'S tournament.

2. Easier draw - Group is too easy and assuming France tops their group a run to the quarter final is almost guaranteed. Then in the quarter final likely to meet no better than Portugal. Messi vs. Cristiano will be fun though particularly because of the media hoopla. If we reach the semi finals then sky is the limit. Between the quarter and the semi is where our mental block lies.

3. Environment - Familiarity with environment and weather conditions don't win you the contest but they are a big plus. To date no European team has won a world cup in South America and there are only two South American teams capable of winning it.

4. Players in form - Messi may have slipped a little but he is Messi. Higuain's club career has suffered but he's been consistent with the national team. Aguero whenever fit performs very well. Di Maria is in the form of his life. Garay has had an excellent season. Ditto Zabaleta.

5. Coach - Even though some criticize him for his exclusion of Tevez (decision completely justified) and Caballero (decision somewhat unjustified) he has been the best thing to happen to Argentina football management in many years. Firstly he is easily hundred times better than that roach Maradona. Look at how the national team was doing when he took over and how well we are playing now. Has past record of winning big titles even if not yet in Europe. Seems less likely to take an eccentric decision than Pekerman. None before Bielsa from 2002 can be called better and even there Bielsa made some crucial errors and nothing that Sabella has done so far seems to be me to be a vital error. Maybe you can say about Caballero since Romero has lost form but he probably wants to go with the goalkeeper who's so long settled in the national team and that approach has it's own benefits. The other remote possibility of an error is the exclusion of Banega but I am guessing he has seen enough of Enzo Perez to take that decision confidently. You can quote me any time on this that club form notwithstanding Tevez has absolutely no place in this team.

6. Brazil, 1950, Uruguay and the Maracana - Not that I am a very superstitious person but this one is too good not to hold on to. I have a feeling Brazil won't win it at home. They may come close, very close, but the cup will elude them. It's one of the ironies of football that will remain. The greatest football nation ever just cannot win it on home soil. What's more is that like 1950 the hammer blow will come from a fellow South American nation. Since Uruguay is in no shape to do that man it's got to Argentina taking their place.

Those are the six reasons I thought of now but there could be even more. Smile

Let me end with one promise. If we don't win it this time and especially if we don't even reach the semi finals then next world cup I will certainly not put Argentina among the favourites no matter how good the team may look then. I'd even go so far as to say that it will be a hammer blow to the psyche of a nation that will affect future generations for many years.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by JespSwe on Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:22 am

i actually think italy will win it... just a feeling though... even though they dont even have squad to match the best

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by BarcaLearning on Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:53 am

@Adit wrote:Brazil or Spain surely.

France- Semi Final at best. Their attack is not a functioning one, Ribbery does not complement Benzema. Ribbery needs a target in the box while Benzema is best suited out side the box, their attack will be as useless as in Euros and DMzema will be back again. I support them along with Spain and Portugal thos tournament but their lack of team game is apparent.

Argentina- They will get knocked out by Portugal if they meet them, if they can somehow avoid portugal then they will get spanked by the next big team they face. Cant see that team winning a world cup with lot of average players in many positions.

Germany- They could reach the finals and they will definitely feast on the smaller teams but i have doubts on their defenders. Individually none of their defenders are reliable apart from Lahm ,even he isnt that great defender.


Italy-Very high chance of winning the cup. They simply have to avoid spain on the way to final...could see Italy even defeating the Brazilians.

I agree a lot with the Portugal being able to beat Argentina part. When I went through the brackets which plays a huge part, I realised this was very probable and therefore, even the bookies odds has Portugal to get to the final ahead of other 'hotter' teams simply becos of this.

Not sure about all the fuss about Italy though, we all know they are great at tournaments, but still they have really flopped b4, the last WC, even the est coaches like Lippi couldnt help Razz

@messixaviesta wrote:
@BarcaLearning wrote:England got 3 votes  Laughing 


If people are voting out of optimism then I'd say it defeats the purpose of such a poll and if they are serious then ... I am just baffled.


@messixaviesta wrote:
@DuringTheWar wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:Lastly Spain's era just has to end now because if it continues beyond this point it will sort of exceed limits of human possibility.


A team has won two world cups in a row before. I still think Spain are at least equal favourites as anyone else

Well this last happened as far back as 1962 and football has evolved so much since then. The closest any country has come is Brazil in 1998 where they were top favourites right since the start of the tournament and the final was considered a major upset. Their difference with Spain is that we are not playing at that level now and are not favourites at all. If you look at the history of the last few world cups often the previous winner is clearly not good enough to win it again. In four years a lot changes. In 2010 nobody gave Italy a prayer quite rightly. In 1994 Germany were hardly considered capable of winning it. In 1990 Argentina were horrible and although they did make it to the final it was one of the ugliest runs to the final ever. In 1986 Italy had fallen too low. In 1982 Argentina were nowhere near the best. In 1978 neither were Germany. In 1974 even Brazil had slipped standards badly. We could go on. A special case was 2002 when the defending champion was considered the top favourite but ended up as the greatest disappointment in world cup history. Another special case was 2006 when again the defending champion was the top favourite but their callous attitude thankfully sent them home sooner rather than later. Even more importantly before Spain no country had won three top international tournaments in a row. That in itself is an all time record. So to win a world cup and make it a fourth is simply put stuff that mortals cannot be capable of. The law of averages cannot be pushed away for ever. It happened to Barcelona after reasonable time. It happened to Bayern much quicker. Spain has been the most resistant but how much longer? In international football only Brazil and France in the last few years have managed anywhere near this kind of consistency. France's run lasted from 1998 to 2002. Brazil's run lasted first from 1994 to 1998 and then from 2002 to 2006. If things have not already changed then it's the world cup where the world order changes. How long can Spain's run which is already six years possibly continue? Then even looking at the various aspects of the team not that we are too bad but we are clearly inferior to what we were in 2010 in several areas.

I know a lot of what ur saying, agree with it, but I have also come to realise to a large extend records can mean bollocks due to different times, and history is being made everyday. Spain made history and could still make more amazing history, but I too get the feeling it wont happen. Its not impossible, but less and less likely as time passes.

The other thing is I was too young to know the details about the 1990 WC, but I clearly remember the final being that Argentina should have won it. They were denied a clear penalty, while Germany were given a penalty that wasnt. That final was a totally unfair result. That is correct right? Razz I certainly didnt know how good or poor prior to the final Argentina or other teams were though. And if this was true, Argentina should have won 2 WCs in a row.

@messixaviesta wrote:
@neuro11 wrote:Agree that Argentina is overrated, infact i wonder where all these thought of Argentina winning coming from. But Spain is no way underrated....people are rating them the way they should be....do you even really believ in Spain winning it again??

Spoke too much about Spain already. So let me answer your question about where these thoughts about Argentina are coming from.

1. Messi's date with destiny - it's now or never if he is to unquestionably become one of the greatest players of all time if not the greatest because you can't participate in international football sufficiently and continue to remain a "flop" and then be called an all time legend. He has always been seen as Maradona's successor. Winning on Brazilian soil will mean surpassing Maradona. It's a once in a life time opportunity that few will ever get. As rg said this has got to be MESSI'S tournament.

2. Easier draw - Group is too easy and assuming France tops their group a run to the quarter final is almost guaranteed. Then in the quarter final likely to meet no better than Portugal. Messi vs. Cristiano will be fun though particularly because of the media hoopla. If we reach the semi finals then sky is the limit. Between the quarter and the semi is where our mental block lies.

3. Environment - Familiarity with environment and weather conditions don't win you the contest but they are a big plus. To date no European team has won a world cup in South America and there are only two South American teams capable of winning it.

4. Players in form - Messi may have slipped a little but he is Messi. Higuain's club career has suffered but he's been consistent with the national team. Aguero whenever fit performs very well. Di Maria is in the form of his life. Garay has had an excellent season. Ditto Zabaleta.

5. Coach - Even though some criticize him for his exclusion of Tevez (decision completely justified) and Caballero (decision somewhat unjustified) he has been the best thing to happen to Argentina football management in many years. Firstly he is easily hundred times better than that roach Maradona. Look at how the national team was doing when he took over and how well we are playing now. Has past record of winning big titles even if not yet in Europe. Seems less likely to take an eccentric decision than Pekerman. None before Bielsa from 2002 can be called better and even there Bielsa made some crucial errors and nothing that Sabella has done so far seems to be me to be a vital error. Maybe you can say about Caballero since Romero has lost form but he probably wants to go with the goalkeeper who's so long settled in the national team and that approach has it's own benefits. The other remote possibility of an error is the exclusion of Banega but I am guessing he has seen enough of Enzo Perez to take that decision confidently. You can quote me any time on this that club form notwithstanding Tevez has absolutely no place in this team.

6. Brazil, 1950, Uruguay and the Maracana - Not that I am a very superstitious person but this one is too good not to hold on to. I have a feeling Brazil won't win it at home. They may come close, very close, but the cup will elude them. It's one of the ironies of football that will remain. The greatest football nation ever just cannot win it on home soil. What's more is that like 1950 the hammer blow will come from a fellow South American nation. Since Uruguay is in no shape to do that man it's got to Argentina taking their place.

Those are the six reasons I thought of now but there could be even more. Smile

Let me end with one promise. If we don't win it this time and especially if we don't even reach the semi finals then next world cup I will certainly not put Argentina among the favourites no matter how good the team may look then. I'd even go so far as to say that it will be a hammer blow to the psyche of a nation that will affect future generations for many years.

Agree with the good points made too. Great point in the end is that if Brazil or Argentina fail to win it, it really would be a blow to the region's football world and enhance Europes dominance.
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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by neuro11 on Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:46 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@neuro11 wrote:Agree that Argentina is overrated, infact i wonder where all these thought of Argentina winning coming from. But Spain is no way underrated....people are rating them the way they should be....do you even really believ in Spain winning it again??

Spoke too much about Spain already. So let me answer your question about where these thoughts about Argentina are coming from.

1. Messi's date with destiny -........................
2. Easier draw - ..............................
3. Environment - .........................
4. Players in form - .............................
5. Coach - ..................................
6. Brazil, 1950, Uruguay and the Maracana - ..............................

Those are the six reasons I thought of now but there could be even more. Smile

Let me end with one promise. If we don't win it this time and especially if we don't even reach the semi finals then next world cup I will certainly not put Argentina among the favourites no matter how good the team may look then. I'd even go so far as to say that it will be a hammer blow to the psyche of a nation that will affect future generations for many years.


Thanks JD for detailing this issue.....i really wanted to know in detail about that......Let me share my thoughts on your reasons.....

1. Messi's date with destiny - my heart could not say anything more. But realistically its an emotional reason.is not it??? It does not have any facts or logic or whatever. its purely based on on what Messi lover (like me) wishes to be. but reality not necessarily should follow this. Messi will try too hard, playing on rival soil, nothing going on his way in last season, too much burden in a team with below average mid can all work against him shining. and of course there comes the fact that 1 goal in 2 WC despite the team having easy group and reaching quarter final .... He might well not shine with all these pressure
2. Easier draw : not necessarily. upto 2nd round we always had easier teams and that never helped. Quarter final is our deadlock and Portugal will be there (probably). while many people dont rate them they certainly have a balanced defense and good attack...so its not a straight forward winning for me...i agree though if we break that deadlock an european team will find it difficult to knock us in semis
3. Environment  - two teams there yes but only one team can win .even if we reach final vs Brazil even i would dare to say we will beat them. the quality in brazilian team is just too good to fail in the final. thats why i wish Brazil to get knocked out before final and i would be cheering for any team doing that
4. players in form -  higuain is not a problem. i think Palacio would have easily taken his place...but now i heard palacio got injured,....we have players like Di maria and Zabaleta in super form but look at their replacements- mile difference. no depth...i agree its a small tournament. but injury can happen after such a long season. look at other title contenders and their depth.
5.coach : here i agree completely with you. infact i believe had he taken charge before last WC we might not have already won it, but we would be a strong contender by now and probably would have won the last Copa. i have no problem about tevez decision. i find it perfect. but i felt he could easily took Banega...but i dint see Enzho and i wish,like you that his decision of taking Enzho is realistic than  a bias..
6. I find it a very strong reason...Very Happy i  also have that same feeling....Brazil ,a strong team playing at home, winning it will be a too easy/predictable thing Football's Biggest Event wont simply like. it will slip from their hand at some point. if you say Argentina will be their to grab it at that moment....I am with you for that belief Very Happy

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:47 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:
Not sure about all the fuss about Italy though, we all know they are great at tournaments, but still they have really flopped b4, the last WC, even the est coaches like Lippi couldnt help Razz

Italy and world cups and when have they flopped is the question. Let's start from 1990, shall we.

1990 - favourites to win and extremely unlucky to lose on penalties in the semi final

1994 - poor team that overachieved by reaching the final and even there lost on penalties

1998 - a team in transition which didn't do badly at all losing to eventual winners in the quarter finals once again on penalties

2002 - a strong team whose elimination at the hands of one of the joint hosts will always remain one of the world cup's greatest controversies.

2006 - Champions

2010 - A shameful and ignominious first round exit but not unexpected

So what do we conclude? The only time the team actually disappointed was in 2010 and even though they had a great coach in Lippi by then he had become reduced to such shameful indulgence that he brought a retirement home with him to the world cup.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:54 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:I know a lot of what ur saying, agree with it, but I have also come to realise to a large extend records can mean bollocks due to different times, and history is being made everyday. Spain made history and could still make more amazing history, but I too get the feeling it wont happen. Its not impossible, but less and less likely as time passes.

The other thing is I was too young to know the details about the 1990 WC, but I clearly remember the final being that Argentina should have won it. They were denied a clear penalty, while Germany were given a penalty that wasnt. That final was a totally unfair result. That is correct right? :PI certainly didnt know how good or poor prior to the final Argentina or other teams were though. And if this was true, Argentina should have won 2 WCs in a row.

Nothing to disagree with what you say about Spain. Fair comments.

Was Argentina denied a clear penalty in the WC 1990 final. I just can't remember this at all. Germany's penalty was a poor decision. However what we also need to remember is how Argentina played that match. We all remember Holland from 2010. Multiply that by ten. Also what did Argentina do before reaching the final? Started with a loss to Cameroon. beat only one team I think in their group and drew with Romania. They only qualified for the next round because in those days some of the third placed teams were retained. Then they were extremely lucky against Brazil who were much better and there are some controversies around that match as well. In the quarter final they beat a team no better than I think it was the then USSR on penalties. In the semi final Italy was a ten times better team and Italy vs., Germany final was what the world cup deserved as these were clearly the two best teams but somehow Argentina eliminated the hosts on penalties. Maybe in the final they were a little unlucky but most of the neutral world heaved a sigh of relief. If they had won it would likely have been the ugliest world cup victory in football history.

One disclaimer I must make as an Argentina fan. We were very lucky in 1990 but there is no point grudging us for it because since then we have been nothing but unlucky. In our next five eliminations there are many cases of bad luck. In 1994 we were going great guns when Maradona's drug test ruined everything. In 2006 we were better than Germany but they were just that little bit mentally tougher and some of Pekerman's decisions such as withdrawing of Riquelme and not bringing Zanetti in the squad to play as right back cost us so heavily that night.


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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:02 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:Agree with the good points made too. Great point in the end is that if Brazil or Argentina fail to win it, it really would be a blow to the region's football world and enhance Europes dominance.

Thanks. The last two world cups together had no South American finalist and only one semi finalist. WC 2014 has to go to South America.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:18 pm

@neuro11 wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:
@neuro11 wrote:Agree that Argentina is overrated, infact i wonder where all these thought of Argentina winning coming from. But Spain is no way underrated....people are rating them the way they should be....do you even really believ in Spain winning it again??

Spoke too much about Spain already. So let me answer your question about where these thoughts about Argentina are coming from.

1. Messi's date with destiny -........................
2. Easier draw - ..............................
3. Environment - .........................
4. Players in form - .............................
5. Coach - ..................................
6. Brazil, 1950, Uruguay and the Maracana - ..............................

Those are the six reasons I thought of now but there could be even more. Smile

Let me end with one promise. If we don't win it this time and especially if we don't even reach the semi finals then next world cup I will certainly not put Argentina among the favourites no matter how good the team may look then. I'd even go so far as to say that it will be a hammer blow to the psyche of a nation that will affect future generations for many years.


Thanks JD for detailing this issue.....i really wanted to know in detail about that......Let me share my thoughts on your reasons.....

1. Messi's date with destiny - my heart could not say anything more. But realistically its an emotional reason.is not it??? It does not have any facts or logic or whatever. its purely based on on what Messi lover (like me) wishes to be. but reality not necessarily should follow this. Messi will try too hard, playing on rival soil, nothing going on his way in last season, too much burden in a team with below average mid can all work against him shining. and of course there comes the fact that 1 goal in 2 WC despite the team having easy group and reaching quarter final .... He might well not shine with all these pressure
2. Easier draw : not necessarily. upto 2nd round we always had easier teams and that never helped. Quarter final is our deadlock and Portugal will be there (probably). while many people dont rate them they certainly have a balanced defense and good attack...so its not a straight forward winning for me...i agree though if we break that deadlock an european team will find it difficult to knock us in semis
3. Environment  - two teams there yes but only one team can win .even if we reach final vs Brazil even i would dare to say we will beat them. the quality in brazilian team is just too good to fail in the final. thats why i wish Brazil to get knocked out before final and i would be cheering for any team doing that
4. players in form -  higuain is not a problem. i think Palacio would have easily taken his place...but now i heard palacio got injured,....we have players like Di maria and Zabaleta in super form but look at their replacements- mile difference. no depth...i agree its a small tournament. but injury can happen after such a long season. look at other title contenders and their depth.
5.coach : here i agree completely with you. infact i believe had he taken charge before last WC we might not have already won it, but we would be a strong contender by now and probably would have won the last Copa. i have no problem about tevez decision. i find it perfect. but i felt he could easily took Banega...but i dint see Enzho and i wish,like you that his decision of taking Enzho is realistic than  a bias..
6. I find it a very strong reason...Very Happy i  also have that same feeling....Brazil ,a strong team playing at home, winning it will be a too easy/predictable thing Football's Biggest Event wont simply like. it will slip from their hand at some point. if you say Argentina will be their to grab it at that moment....I am with you for that belief Very Happy


Most welcome. Some great comments from you.

1. Fair comments. It's so unfair that people keep bringing up that Messi didn't score at WC 2010. Before the quarterfinal he was still one of the two or three best players at the tournament who pretty much carried his team and even at the end he remained one of the ten best players in the tournament.

2. I agree that against Portugal it will be no cakewalk. Man if there could ever be one match in which Cristiano will play with every molecule of his heart it's this one against Messi. Smile What I am saying is before this it's a cake walk and after this we will be so confident that you can say kind of unstoppable. This is the potential banana skin though.

3. Now it's my turn to ask. Why are people rating Brazil so high? Their best player is Neymar who has yet to become a full fledged star. One year back before Scolari they were in the doldrums. So in just one year Scolari has made them the best team in the world in the eyes of people? Is it all because of that one match against Spain? Do not forget that the Confed Cup is a jinx. Whoever wins it doesn't win the world cup next year. Dunga's Brazil of 2010 were not only stronger than this team but much more tried and tested. They looked almost invincible to me but somehow they lost to Netherlands. Maybe they have more positional balance than Argentina but the best of our individuals are better than the best of their individuals and that can make a difference.

4. No I don't think Higuain would have been replaced. Higuain's scored a lot in the qualifiers and Sabella sticks to the tried and tested. Besides there's Palacio's age. Replacements is a risk I agree. We have to hope we don't get major injuries. However consider this. The best Barca in history was actually a very thin squad which needed immense luck with injuries to achieve what it did. We have to hope we are lucky with injuries.

5. Would Sabella have won Copa 2011 if he had been in charge? Possibly. Would he have won if he had been in charge for a few years? Absolutely. I agree not taking Banega is a risk. In fact I still feel he should have been taken but it's almost impossible to agree with every single decision any coach takes.

6. When Brazil have been hyped as the best team and favourites they have often not won e.g. 1998 and 2006. This team is not even anywhere near as good as those. They are not going to run everyone over and win if that's what some people are thinking. They could win but they will have to pay with their blood, sweat and tears for it. For now I list them as #2 favourites ahead of Italy who are my #3.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by sportsczy on Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:01 pm

No way Argentina wins a WC in Brazil... they are playing in front of highly hostile crowds in every game regardless of the opponent lol..

Brazil is a favorite of course and Spain is the defending champion. After that, it's not very clear to me. I think a South American team wins it though so i have to go with Brazil. I think Uruguay is a good darkhorse.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:04 pm

@sportsczy wrote:No way Argentina wins a WC in Brazil... they are playing in front of highly hostile crowds in every game regardless of the opponent lol..

Brazil is a favorite of course and Spain is the defending champion. After that, it's not very clear to me. I think a South American team wins it though so i have to go with Brazil. I think Uruguay is a good darkhorse.


That should spur Argentina on even more. Smile

What is there in Uruguay? An age old weather beaten squad which has already overachieved. Suarez is the bright spark but he is not even fully fit. Cavani could do a bit. Godin will protect the defense in some difficult situations. That's about it though.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by sanchez04 on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:18 pm

I think Brazil fans will support south american teams over european teams. There will be many Argentina fans and tourists to see star players. Argentina will play in their continent. They will have more confidence and see other teams as guests. European teams will respect s.america teams. And finally no team won WC out of Europe (except 2010).

S.America players are used to travel between continents. They are experienced in both continents. European players lack it and they will struggle under different conditions. Argentina and Brazil for the final

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by Ganso on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:19 pm

spur Argentina even more?since when is playing away considered an advantage?
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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:30 pm

is sanchez04 billionmillion ?

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:32 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
1. Messi's date with destiny.

2. Easier draw

3. Environment

4. Players in form

5. Coach

6. Brazil, 1950, Uruguay and the Maracana

Those are the six reasons I thought of now but there could be even more. Smile

Let me end with one promise. If we don't win it this time and especially if we don't even reach the semi finals then next world cup I will certainly not put Argentina among the favourites no matter how good the team may look then. I'd even go so far as to say that it will be a hammer blow to the psyche of a nation that will affect future generations for many years.

1. That's hardly a footballing argument. Just because if Argentina achieves the WC it would make Messi one of the greatest ever it doesn't mean he will shine. I'm sure he was just as pressured to do it last time around, yet in spite of a good tournament he didn't score a single goal. This seems to me to fit more in the sentimental category than a sound reason for Argentina to take it.

2. I agree we have an easy projected draw until semis. Would make it all the more embarrassing if we don't make it there, as we have since 1990. In either case we will still have to face really good teams in semis and the final.

3. I don't think many users in this forum understand just how different Argentina's weather is to Brazil's. Most Argentine players are from somewhere with temperate weather (Buenos Aires, Cordoba and Rosario). For example right now (6pm) in Buenos Aires it is 14C, whereas in most of Brazil it between 25-30. South America is a very large continent. The hottest parts of Argentina (the north) are the same temperature as Brazil's coldest (south).

4. I agree to an extent. There is a mix. Di Maria and Zabaleta are in great form. But Messi is declined and Aguero, Garay and Gago are all battling persistent injury problems (Aguero and Gago have barely played half the matches this past season). Not to mention Romero has been extremely shaky this season. Wouldn't say most of our players and in great form.

5. Agreed, Sabella is a smart coach if not good at selecting players. It has certainly been a long time since we've had someone as tactically astute as him.

6. I think this also fits more under the sentimental reasons than the football argument ones.

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by Ganso on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:37 pm

I think every top team that hosted the WC twice lost once and won the other, so #6 is kind of invalid
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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by sanchez04 on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:43 pm

If you consider this as away place for Argentina then i have question.Which is better for Argentina, Argentina playing in Brazil or Argentina playing in Qatar or Africa? Where they have more chance?

Valkyrja what is it?

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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by Ganso on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:48 pm

In Qatar or Africa of course.Argentina would be at Germany-Brazil-Spain level of favoritism if it was anywhere else in SA, but it's in Brazil, so they are a level below.
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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:24 pm

@Ganso wrote:spur Argentina even more?since when is playing away considered an advantage?

That was said half in jest but just hostile crowd should not be enough to derail Argentina's campaign?


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Re: Who will win the WC?

Post by sanchez04 on Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:28 pm

Brazil is of course number one. But where they have better chance to reach the final? I think in Brazil they have more chance. Mainly because European teams are not used to that conditions and history shows it. so they have less chances. It automatically raises Argentina's chances

Do Brazil fans hate Argentina even when they dont meet? How their players are close friends then. Madrid and Barca players are not friends. This is rivalry. But i see its not the same with brazil and argentina.

Example in Barca there are two groups. One group is Messi Alves Neymar Mascerano Adriano

Another group is Xavi Iniesta busquets fabregas and etc. If you watch training you can see brazil and argentina players are always together. Considering this i feel like these two country respect and love each other when they are among european teams

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Re: Who will win the WC?

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