RIP Spain

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by M99 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:51 pm

Spain conceded 2 goals in the 2010 World Cup. They've conceded 5 goals in 80 minutes in 2014

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Arquitescu on Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:04 pm

I wrote:Thank you, my friend.

Before I start, Vicente Del Bosque is my favourite manager in the world and whom I feel is the best in world football as never I would question the man himself and what made him the deity he is to us.

When it comes to my favourite managers, they will be on the platform of the most criticism from me considering how much time I invest in deducting their choices and decisions.

We have won it all as you know, yet post Euro 2012 (the tourney the sign of needed change) España have been on a subtle decline.

International teams have increasingly figured out how to thwart us through examples set by Prandelli, Sampioli, Igesund, Jorge Luis Pinto and club teams whom have formed an increasingly comprehensive plan to render our possession based system, less effective. Why and how?

The core team arguably after peaking in 2012, is not functioning the same way.

Whether Xavi or Pique or most of our cup winning veterans, they have lost either that desire present pre-2010 than had us win in South Africa or the incremental changes in their respective clubs (to which complimented each other rather than being a simple tactical variable) have not caused Del Bosque to evolve upon them, rather we are stagnant. Just like Barcelona post-Pep, gone is the pressing, the zonal movement off the ball, the intensity, the flair... the insito. Pre-Confed Cup was merely a sign yet our performances versus Italia and that horrorshow versus Brazil was not just due to the humidity and the insignificance of the Confederations Cup. Our cycle has reached past its stage as the players exerting their final embers in the tank will not be enough for the 2014 WC.

Del Bosque infuriates in the sense that he only scouts THREE clubs exclusively (well documented) which are Real Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico Madrid, with the exception of an occasional trip for Sevilla (given he lives right next to the city). Other players in different clubs are exclusively scouted by Grande (whom VDB has implicit trust in). Difference is, when it comes to their use he does not use them for their strengths, only relying on a football catalyst past its cycle and without a tactical variance. Implementation of Xabi again is welcome given how tactically important he is yet our midfield is frequently overrun and dominated on the counter considering the base football has been stripped down into the basics, without ANY changes if it does not work.

Vicente's lack of adaptation and faith in his old guard is costing us.

What do I mean by Lippilism? It is a term coined humorously by Mole meaning that Del Bosque will hold onto the guard whom won him everything even if it means they are not the players they were in their halcyon days.

Del Bosque like Lippi, staunchly believes in team dressing room spirit even at the cost of the implementation of a new breed. His premise is correct yet in my opinion there must be a balance struct and he has without a doubt succumbed to the politics which all his predecessors do in choosing a very concentrated contingent of players only from the 3 named clubs, despite individuals performing better in other ones.

How in the world has the arrogant Fernando Torres (who has been utter shit since Euro 2008) get ahead of a far more superior duo in Alvaro Negredo and Fernando Llorente? You may say chemistry yet each and every time both have shown they add a better and more effective dimension than Torres, Llorente especially given his complete skill-set and ambidexrity (something our line screams).

Yes, we do not play centre-forwards and Fabregas for all his consistent excellent for us is limiting us given that we now need to resort back to a reference point to which the players can centre around. Half the players lack a clear role, which is needed considering the timeworn play calling for dynamism and more versatility.

How is Pique continuing to start considering since 2010 he has been a shadow of himself club and country? Considering Íñigo has been better and shown what he can provide in his cap versus Ecuador.

Juanfran is a painfully average right-back whose been chosen over better performers in Iraola and Carvajal.

Alba whose been a pure liability, is exempt considering his excellent form in Barca's final third of the season.

Yet in the midfield Busquets is not performing his role whereas Xavi has been a shadow post-2012 and our front midfield seems to be picked by names than results. Names like David Silva, Mata and Koke who never have performed (bar infrequent exceptions by Silva) continue to be called up.

And then you have Diego Costa who ISN'T Spanish and directly contradicts Vicente's code of conduct (unlike the model professional Senna) by his vile thuggery and theatrics. Quite frankly, it may have been his first appearance but he was absolute dross versus Italia and clearly did not fit in considering he cannot handle such a system on the ball.

This does not reflect on how I view the players yet a bigger point.

Just like this country, España does not believe in merit yet delves purely into seniority, experience, and narrowing the factors down as much as possible as shortcuts, all the opposites of what us Basques believe. My problem with Del Bosque goes beyond my usual call for the new dominant breed of the country in Basques or individual players scouted for what they can add and their performances compared to their national counterparts. Yet merit is not something rewarded within course of Vincente's experimentation and that has been a constant since the world cup.

Exceptions apply such as Fabregas, Pedro, Villa, Ramos etc whom no matter what club form, they always turn it up for España.

Yet there is no way to break into this system outside if you show intangible traits to which no player has yet figured out and despite the results, the tactics are a serious ticking timb bomb to which will be exploited on the stage such as the world cup. In there you have a handful of names whom continue to make the squad despite not even fitting in within the system itself; political reasons must also be mentioned.

Yes like Italia, España turn it up during these stages yet we are resting on a cycle to which has not been invigorated as needed and it may just cost us in the future.

Where I stop is simply on the fact that it IS Vicente Del Bosque managing us, and hopefully he proves me wrong yet questions must be raised.

Also, an absolute honour that you continue to support España.

When you let the a curry simmer beyond its balance of incremental heat and produce; it makes for a overly potent imbue that spoils the dish.

When you stretch an elastic band beyond its measure of elasticity, it is rendered into a fruitless hoop of rubber.

When you stretch a footballing cycle beyond its shelf-life, it is simmered down into a grainy contour of its halcyon years.

Mole was not joking when he coined the super corny term in Lippilism, something both of us agree upon that Vicente del Bosque has slowly contracted and now is a third degree victim of its namesake.

As a manager, one will inevitably look back into the core nucleus of a team that brought the cup into his hands; choosing to replicate the carefully chosen ingredients that accrued the clinching of the ultimate goal.

4 years is the penultimate point of torsion one can twist within their core cycle as in 2014 we are looking at a squad in its final sinews, playing a system in its final embers fuelled by reserve batteries rather than reinvention and reinvigoration.

del Basque will not rest upon his achievements yet like Lippi in their parallel age they will so stubbornly refuse to believe in the modern pace of footballing cycles, choosing attributes in the form of personal trust and chemistry over merit and experimentation. The 4 year gap if not Post-2012 was the breeding ground of time produced to which ideas were supposed to be expanded upon with the Basque Revolution, integration of regional footballing philosophies, a transition of identity from the Spanish adapted Creole football into a hybrid of all the regional philosophies themselves and one that absolved all the politcal pretensions and succumbances to what made us serial chokers generationally. The conveyor belt of talent putting countries to shame being ignored for the previous platform, now rendered shaky from the weight of its obsoletism as bandages across the sore fissures and blind eyes to the glaring wounds was was fully ripped open by a ravenous Netherlands.

Yet it was mentioned, our problems stemmed right after the Euro 2012 in which our victories were eventually produce of a false perch to rest upon while the rest of the footballing world moved ahead in determined coalitions; adapting to the once prevalent fear when facing the system prized by Luis Aragones.

It will be ignored that Pique has been a lady of fortune post 2010 when General Puyol was too maimed to lead on his younger understudy, thus unearthing the flawed talent that is Gerard Pique who has been a mere silhouette of what he could have been, for 2 straight years now.

It will be ignored that Ramos will need a partner to compliment his character and construct; those multitude of attributes not enough to sustain a defense on the brink of annihilation since perusal of the defensive game is non-existent in our defensive semantic.

It will be ignored that Xavi no longer can sustain the grueling intensity of what Barca's golden cycle took out of his muscle and membrane; the artist now receiving a moments pause to reinvent and reinspire himself.

It will be ignored that Fernando Torres is a con-artist of the highest echelon, sleuthing his way consistently in the ranks based on flashbacks of when he was relevant.

It will be ignored that David Silva does not perform for us (ever), Iniesta is wasted in his outside-left role, using the Italian solution to deploy as many playmakers as possible will only hinder our play or all the kibbles and bits of decisions proven not to work.

It will be ignored that the Un-Spaniard Diego Costa will never perform for us as his floppery versus Italia (and now Netherlands) highlighting a crisis beyond just the need to adapt; but the fact that this unwelcome hooligan represents the skewed structure of how one benefits from our tumultuous federation.

It will be ignored that the best striker by a nautical mile for the red in the form of David Villa will remain 2nd-3rd choice for the fraudulent duo of Torres and Costa; despite performing for us each and every single time.

It will be ignored that we are deploying a promising ideas with a ceiling reached two years ago to which have been stagnant as a puddle; instead having a regression similar what was stripped down into its bare-naked value during Pep Guardiola's leave of Barcelona.


It will be ignored that Fernando Llorente or the Basque revolution as a whole combine the modern movement needed to support the excess of this cycle, to which the current Real-Barca split have overstayed their deserved ovation. Diversity was the mark of our last three trophies that was supposed to launch us into a new era of the flag; back to square one.

Congratulations to Netherlands. That night in Johannesburg must have been a world of pain post Iniesta-goal as frivolous as this match may be compared to such a stage, this humiliation served us correct if you look at España's attempt to balance on one marble foot post trophies; better to have our nauseating humiliation NOW than deep into the competition where del Bosque's quadruple chin will contradict or give away the grander assessments of our problems. It was beyond Iker Casillas resorting to his suicidal and erratic self of our failure to adapt to any tactical shift that van Gaal threw at us. Netherlands has actually given del Basque a script to work on to which will humble our arrogance and reignite the fire once catalyzed in the inception of our golden years. Australia will likely be a victim of them being out of their depth yet Chile (the team that opened us by the seams a year ago led by Mauricio Isla and Arturo Vidonkey), will present a predicament and more so a litmus test to how we can respond in a situation not yet faced since....ever.

This loss either results in the slow twist of the knife in a steady leeway of decline or actually resorting back to what he were supposed to build upon Post-2008/2010.

This loss is black and white.

This loss is quite possibly the best thing that has happened to us in years.

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:11 pm

Think last time around they lost their first game against Switzerland?

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by 1991 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:13 pm

Xavi - Iniesta partnership is finished. And these idiots at Barca sold Cesc to maintain this 'system'  Laughing

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by rwo power on Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:43 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Think last time around they lost their first game against Switzerland?
Then Spain had 80% possession, Switzerland parked an AirbusA380 and scored a lucky goal. Today, the Netherlands went on a veritable demolition job. Little difference there.

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:46 pm

Costa :bow:

Single handedly making the World and European champs look like Northern Ireland.

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Kick on Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:47 pm

@Arquitescu wrote:
I wrote:Thank you, my friend.

Before I start, Vicente Del Bosque is my favourite manager in the world and whom I feel is the best in world football as never I would question the man himself and what made him the deity he is to us.

When it comes to my favourite managers, they will be on the platform of the most criticism from me considering how much time I invest in deducting their choices and decisions.

We have won it all as you know, yet post Euro 2012 (the tourney the sign of needed change) España have been on a subtle decline.

International teams have increasingly figured out how to thwart us through examples set by Prandelli, Sampioli, Igesund, Jorge Luis Pinto and club teams whom have formed an increasingly comprehensive plan to render our possession based system, less effective. Why and how?

The core team arguably after peaking in 2012, is not functioning the same way.

Whether Xavi or Pique or most of our cup winning veterans, they have lost either that desire present pre-2010 than had us win in South Africa or the incremental changes in their respective clubs (to which complimented each other rather than being a simple tactical variable) have not caused Del Bosque to evolve upon them, rather we are stagnant. Just like Barcelona post-Pep, gone is the pressing, the zonal movement off the ball, the intensity, the flair... the insito. Pre-Confed Cup was merely a sign yet our performances versus Italia and that horrorshow versus Brazil was not just due to the humidity and the insignificance of the Confederations Cup. Our cycle has reached past its stage as the players exerting their final embers in the tank will not be enough for the 2014 WC.

Del Bosque infuriates in the sense that he only scouts THREE clubs exclusively (well documented) which are Real Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico Madrid, with the exception of an occasional trip for Sevilla (given he lives right next to the city). Other players in different clubs are exclusively scouted by Grande (whom VDB has implicit trust in). Difference is, when it comes to their use he does not use them for their strengths, only relying on a football catalyst past its cycle and without a tactical variance. Implementation of Xabi again is welcome given how tactically important he is yet our midfield is frequently overrun and dominated on the counter considering the base football has been stripped down into the basics, without ANY changes if it does not work.

Vicente's lack of adaptation and faith in his old guard is costing us.

What do I mean by Lippilism? It is a term coined humorously by Mole meaning that Del Bosque will hold onto the guard whom won him everything even if it means they are not the players they were in their halcyon days.

Del Bosque like Lippi, staunchly believes in team dressing room spirit even at the cost of the implementation of a new breed. His premise is correct yet in my opinion there must be a balance struct and he has without a doubt succumbed to the politics which all his predecessors do in choosing a very concentrated contingent of players only from the 3 named clubs, despite individuals performing better in other ones.

How in the world has the arrogant Fernando Torres (who has been utter shit since Euro 2008) get ahead of a far more superior duo in Alvaro Negredo and Fernando Llorente? You may say chemistry yet each and every time both have shown they add a better and more effective dimension than Torres, Llorente especially given his complete skill-set and ambidexrity (something our line screams).

Yes, we do not play centre-forwards and Fabregas for all his consistent excellent for us is limiting us given that we now need to resort back to a reference point to which the players can centre around. Half the players lack a clear role, which is needed considering the timeworn play calling for dynamism and more versatility.

How is Pique continuing to start considering since 2010 he has been a shadow of himself club and country? Considering Íñigo has been better and shown what he can provide in his cap versus Ecuador.

Juanfran is a painfully average right-back whose been chosen over better performers in Iraola and Carvajal.

Alba whose been a pure liability, is exempt considering his excellent form in Barca's final third of the season.

Yet in the midfield Busquets is not performing his role whereas Xavi has been a shadow post-2012 and our front midfield seems to be picked by names than results. Names like David Silva, Mata and Koke who never have performed (bar infrequent exceptions by Silva) continue to be called up.

And then you have Diego Costa who ISN'T Spanish and directly contradicts Vicente's code of conduct (unlike the model professional Senna) by his vile thuggery and theatrics. Quite frankly, it may have been his first appearance but he was absolute dross versus Italia and clearly did not fit in considering he cannot handle such a system on the ball.

This does not reflect on how I view the players yet a bigger point.

Just like this country, España does not believe in merit yet delves purely into seniority, experience, and narrowing the factors down as much as possible as shortcuts, all the opposites of what us Basques believe. My problem with Del Bosque goes beyond my usual call for the new dominant breed of the country in Basques or individual players scouted for what they can add and their performances compared to their national counterparts. Yet merit is not something rewarded within course of Vincente's experimentation and that has been a constant since the world cup.

Exceptions apply such as Fabregas, Pedro, Villa, Ramos etc whom no matter what club form, they always turn it up for España.

Yet there is no way to break into this system outside if you show intangible traits to which no player has yet figured out and despite the results, the tactics are a serious ticking timb bomb to which will be exploited on the stage such as the world cup. In there you have a handful of names whom continue to make the squad despite not even fitting in within the system itself; political reasons must also be mentioned.

Yes like Italia, España turn it up during these stages yet we are resting on a cycle to which has not been invigorated as needed and it may just cost us in the future.

Where I stop is simply on the fact that it IS Vicente Del Bosque managing us, and hopefully he proves me wrong yet questions must be raised.

Also, an absolute honour that you continue to support España.

When you let the a curry simmer beyond its balance of incremental heat and produce; it makes for a overly potent imbue that spoils the dish.

When you stretch an elastic band beyond its measure of elasticity, it is rendered into a fruitless hoop of rubber.

When you stretch a footballing cycle beyond its shelf-life, it is simmered down into a grainy contour of its halcyon years.

Mole was not joking when he coined the super corny term in Lippilism, something both of us agree upon that Vicente del Bosque has slowly contracted and now is a third degree victim of its namesake.

As a manager, one will inevitably look back into the core nucleus of a team that brought the cup into his hands; choosing to replicate the carefully chosen ingredients that accrued the clinching of the ultimate goal.

4 years is the penultimate point of torsion one can twist within their core cycle as in 2014 we are looking at a squad in its final sinews, playing a system in its final embers fuelled by reserve batteries rather than reinvention and reinvigoration.

del Basque will not rest upon his achievements yet like Lippi in their parallel age they will so stubbornly refuse to believe in the modern pace of footballing cycles, choosing attributes in the form of personal trust and chemistry over merit and experimentation. The 4 year gap if not Post-2012 was the breeding ground of time produced to which ideas were supposed to be expanded upon with the Basque Revolution, integration of regional footballing philosophies, a transition of identity from the Spanish adapted Creole football into a hybrid of all the regional philosophies themselves and one that absolved all the politcal pretensions and succumbances to what made us serial chokers generationally. The conveyor belt of talent putting countries to shame being ignored for the previous platform, now rendered shaky from the weight of its obsoletism as bandages across the sore fissures and blind eyes to the glaring wounds was was fully ripped open by a ravenous Netherlands.

Yet it was mentioned, our problems stemmed right after the Euro 2012 in which our victories were eventually produce of a false perch to rest upon while the rest of the footballing world moved ahead in determined coalitions; adapting to the once prevalent fear when facing the system prized by Luis Aragones.

It will be ignored that Pique has been a lady of fortune post 2010 when General Puyol was too maimed to lead on his younger understudy, thus unearthing the flawed talent that is Gerard Pique who has been a mere silhouette of what he could have been, for 2 straight years now.

It will be ignored that Ramos will need a partner to compliment his character and construct; those multitude of attributes not enough to sustain a defense on the brink of annihilation since perusal of the defensive game is non-existent in our defensive semantic.

It will be ignored that Xavi no longer can sustain the grueling intensity of what Barca's golden cycle took out of his muscle and membrane; the artist now receiving a moments pause to reinvent and reinspire himself.

It will be ignored that Fernando Torres is a con-artist of the highest echelon, sleuthing his way consistently in the ranks based on flashbacks of when he was relevant.

It will be ignored that David Silva does not perform for us (ever), Iniesta is wasted in his outside-left role, using the Italian solution to deploy as many playmakers as possible will only hinder our play or all the kibbles and bits of decisions proven not to work.

It will be ignored that the Un-Spaniard Diego Costa will never perform for us as his floppery versus Italia (and now Netherlands) highlighting a crisis beyond just the need to adapt; but the fact that this unwelcome hooligan represents the skewed structure of how one benefits from our tumultuous federation.

It will be ignored that the best striker by a nautical mile for the red in the form of David Villa will remain 2nd-3rd choice for the fraudulent duo of Torres and Costa; despite performing for us each and every single time.

It will be ignored that we are deploying a promising ideas with a ceiling reached two years ago to which have been stagnant as a puddle; instead having a regression similar what was stripped down into its bare-naked value during Pep Guardiola's leave of Barcelona.


It will be ignored that Fernando Llorente or the Basque revolution as a whole combine the modern movement needed to support the excess of this cycle, to which the current Real-Barca split have overstayed their deserved ovation. Diversity was the mark of our last three trophies that was supposed to launch us into a new era of the flag; back to square one.

Congratulations to Netherlands. That night in Johannesburg must have been a world of pain post Iniesta-goal as frivolous as this match may be compared to such a stage, this humiliation served us correct if you look at España's attempt to balance on one marble foot post trophies; better to have our nauseating humiliation NOW than deep into the competition where del Bosque's quadruple chin will contradict or give away the grander assessments of our problems. It was beyond Iker Casillas resorting to his suicidal and erratic self of our failure to adapt to any tactical shift that van Gaal threw at us. Netherlands has actually given del Basque a script to work on to which will humble our arrogance and reignite the fire once catalyzed in the inception of our golden years. Australia will likely be a victim of them being out of their depth yet Chile (the team that opened us by the seams a year ago led by Mauricio Isla and Arturo Vidonkey), will present a predicament and more so a litmus test to how we can respond in a situation not yet faced since....ever.

This loss either results in the slow twist of the knife in a steady leeway of decline or actually resorting back to what he were supposed to build upon Post-2008/2010.

This loss is black and white.

This loss is quite possibly the best thing that has happened to us in years.


Good to see Agent Torres doing his job, ending spains dominance. Proud

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:48 pm

@rwo power wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:Think last time around they lost their first game against Switzerland?
Then Spain had 80% possession, Switzerland parked an AirbusA380 and scored a lucky goal. Today, the Netherlands went on a veritable demolition job. Little difference there.


oh absolutely, but not in terms of points

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by rwo power on Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:59 pm

But in terms of self-esteem. Last World Cup, Spain will have considered the loss a blip. Dunno if they can do that this time.

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Onyx on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:04 pm

Spain need to improve their pressing. It's too disjointed and not organised enough. Also they need 2 goalscorers starting at least. Not 5 mids and 1 goalscorer.

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:11 pm

@rwo power wrote:But in terms of self-esteem. Last World Cup, Spain will have considered the loss a blip. Dunno if they can do that this time.


from your lips to god's ears, RWO.

The day Spain go out I will be a happy man.
But I'll only believe it when I see it.

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by The Franchise on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:16 pm

Time to dust off Villa, no clue why he isnt starting, let alone not even coming off the bench.


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Re: RIP Spain

Post by futbol on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:19 pm

Del Bosque must be suffering from Alzheimers. When he took Torres to the World Cup I thought it's just a dressing room thing like with Reina. But he actually and in reality brought him on before David Villa to score a goal. Laughing

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Motogp69 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:34 pm

How I felt watching this game :coffee:

Spoiler:

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:38 pm

rofl

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Don't call me James on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:40 pm

@Motogp69 wrote:How I felt watching this game :coffee:

Spoiler:


What movie is that from?

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by futbol on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:42 pm

McAgger wrote:
@Motogp69 wrote:How I felt watching this game :coffee:

Spoiler:


What movie is that from?


From a porn movie.

I know this ... because ... educational reasons ...

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:52 pm

Arbeloa fans had a great time on twitter today, no more scapegoating him Laughing

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Eivindo on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:56 pm

Oh this was so beautiful, De Jong you beauty, Milan legend
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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:59 pm

Man.... winning 5-1 when you have De shitman on your team. Impressive as *bleep*

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Twoism on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:59 pm

@Motogp69 wrote:How I felt watching this game :coffee:

Spoiler:


Stoya ? otherwise name please Very Happy
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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Rebaño Sagrado on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:29 pm


(click to enlarge)


Last edited by rwo power on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Pic edited to add a smaller version as preview - rwo)
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Re: RIP Spain

Post by chad4401 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:32 pm

does xavi always look deceived? he has good reason to at least Laughing

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by Rebaño Sagrado on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:33 pm

can u see the pic?

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Re: RIP Spain

Post by RealGunner on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:36 pm

if u open it in a new tab
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Re: RIP Spain

Post by RealGunner on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:36 pm

don't worry I got ur back brah
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Re: RIP Spain

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