Italia: La Nazionale II

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Robespierre on Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:12 am

" The Tiki Taka is dead "
Prandelli " I have an idea, make the tiki taka"

The change of Prandelli can be summarized in this way Laughing  
Basically he seems to have suffered of inferiority complexes after that final lost 4-0 , but tbh it's normal to have lost against that Spain , it has nothing to do with the setting game..so we are denatured , in a World Cup where the tiki taka is dead and the counterattack is dominating  , where even Louis Van Gaal plays defending and counterattacking,  but Prandelli has decided to change our skin and when these things happen you will see inevitably awful hybrid results.

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by commando on Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:21 am

In my opinion, Prandelli made several personnel and tactical mistakes, he tried to use the same tactics that were successful against England but changed the personnel and the positions of the personnel that contributed to the loss. Of course, had Balotelli scored the open goal opportunity things would have gone much differently, but, Balotelli missed and it happens to good strikers. Not to great ones like Suarez, though.

He replaced Verratti with Motta from the start. Motta is great when you have a lead, but not when you need to score.

With Verratti sick, he should have put Marchisio in Motta's position and should have included a half wing that can handle the ball technically from the beginning of the game.

He put Darmian, who is excellent on the right on the left where he is an ordinary player. This also reduced Candreva's performance who needs a Darmian and does not play well with a wing back that has only pace like Abate. Abate hardly came out of his half because he cannot handle the ball and this reduced Candreva's performance to ordinary levels.

Then Cassano, who plays best in an advanced attacking role was placed about where Pirlo plays. This caused problems for Pirlo who did very little in the second half.

When Insigne came in Marchisio was moved to the right side where he is terrible and never plays normally.

Then, the three subsitutes, Cassano, Insigne and Cerci. They were fresh and instead of using at least one of them as a striker, which is what they are, he used them as midfielders.

But, they needed a goal and he did not use the highest scoring striker in Serie A, what's up with that.

Prandelli is a great manager, but against Costa Rica he got it mostly all wrong.

Oh, and my final comment. Buffon needed more rest, the goal would have been blocked by Sirigu who is healthy. Notice how he needed to spring using his left leg and didn't. He just fell down. He had a left ankle and knee injury.




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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Katy Perry on Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:52 am

No way Italy lost because of a lack of passion/of effort or because they understimated Costa Rica lmao. This is the World Cup.

I also don't feel like Prandelli did that bad with his formation and subs, he tried to play the same team that played against England except Verratti because he was not fit and Paletta because he realized he's garbage. The subs were the most logical ones I mean Thiago Motta out because he was the worst player in the pitch, Cassano in because we needed someone other than Pirlo to send a through ball behind their defense, Candreva and Marchisio out because they were tired and Italy needed more attacking minded players in Cerci and Insigne.

I'm not confident about Italy in this World Cup, even if they somehow survive Uruguay they won't go much further imo
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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Forza on Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:04 am

Italy seriously underestimated Costa Rica. I think there is no need for a major overhaul here. The team failed to play with the kind of intensity off the ball and composure with the ball that they had against England.

BUT, having said that, there were definitely some issues with the fitness of Buffon & Barzagli, Abate struggled to get crosses in, the midfield with 2DMs looked devoid of creativity, the only tactic was pass it to Pirlo and hope he pulls of a miracle lofted through ball, and Darmian was clearly uncomfortable on the left.

Blame will be levelled at Balotelli and there were some chances which should've been taken, but the pivotal issue was the players behind him really struggled to make passes into the final third. Very rarely did Italy's midfielders get in between the lines of Costa Rica's midfield and defence. In fact, the ball almost never went directly down the middle either. For some reason which is incomprehensible to me, Italy persisted with using the wing-backs and wingers to move forward every attack. PREDICTABLE. An under 17s team can defend against that.

What Prandelli has to take from this is that DDR and his golden boy Thiago Motta cannot be on the field at the same time unless he is protecting a lead. With Pirlo sitting in the DLP position and both of these DMs lacking the capabilities to make space and supply assists, there was NOTHING in the central attacking midfield position. He hasn't learnt this lesson after similarly poor performances in the past, but now it's crunch time. If it happens again, Italy will surely lose.
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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by missjb on Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:26 am

costa rica backline were just knowing exactly how to shut italy's attack down. give credit where is due..  they have already knew what to expected from azzuri.. It's happened against Uruguay also.. that offside trap were almost perfect...  they have a plan from beginning, and look confidence.
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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:45 pm

I always said that it was a mistake for Prandelli to abandon the 5-3-2 that took him to the euro finals, especially because he was unable to find a workable alternative. I think Italy suffered because they built their team around an aging player - who would have felt the effects of the heat more - and then they replaced a creative and controlling partner with Motta of all people. Marchisio should have played CM and they should have put Insigne as a LW from the start.

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by messixaviesta on Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:00 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I always said that it was a mistake for Prandelli to abandon the 5-3-2 that took him to the euro finals

Exactly although it was called a 3-5-2. Italy have played their best in that system itself.
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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by messixaviesta on Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:02 pm

McAgger wrote:How the hell is Candreva a starter for this team?

He played well in the first match.

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Robespierre on Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:05 pm

we have played with this new current setting for the first time against the England Laughing
and that victory bedazzled to have found the right street

Pratically the job of 2 years was useless if you disavow all for Italy-England...

DAT possession instead of long balls in last minute Proud

I call this our new game mode as  spaghetiki taka ...
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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Juveman17 on Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:04 pm

@Robespierre wrote:we have played with this new current setting for the first time against the England Laughing
and that victory bedazzled to have found the right street

Pratically the job of 2 years was useless if you disavow all for Italy-England...

DAT possession instead of long balls in last minute Proud

I call this our new game mode as  spaghetiki taka ...


Laughing

I call it Passenaccio

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by flameas on Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:29 pm

If we play possesion then Verratti needs to start. Motta is hopeless in possession and Aquliani would crack under pressure.

I would even try with Balo and Immobile. Balo looked very lonely against Costa Ricas three central defenders.
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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Xifio on Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:22 pm

wow, Prandelli getting roasted by fans and critics ... not surprising, but yeah, I'm steering clear of it ... I mean, if Balotelli puts that chip away when played in by Pirlo, all of this discussion (bar maybe the call for Immobile) would be moot ...

I actually liked the fact that the team were only playing in 2nd gear when the scores were level, because the group stage is NOT the time to peak at a World Cup ... but once the goal was conceded (soon after Costa Rica's legit penalty shout), the players surely had to shift up one gear at least?

I'm very curious to see the response against Uruguay ... it's only a draw that's needed to qualify, but a win will likely see Colombia avoided in the 2nd round, which would be important in a South American World Cup ...

but, all said and done, let's face reality: the actual reason Italy lost is because they were receiving support from the English, which is an instant curse at any international tournament ... now, they'll go back to calling the Italians "wankers", and normality will be restored ...  tongue

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Xifio on Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:31 pm

since Super Mario isn't delivering, Marchisio has decided to go Super Saiyan:




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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by adun101 on Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:58 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I always said that it was a mistake for Prandelli to abandon the 5-3-2 that took him to the euro finals, especially because he was unable to find a workable alternative. I think Italy suffered because they built their team around an aging player - who would have felt the effects of the heat more - and then they replaced a creative and controlling partner with Motta of all people. Marchisio should have played CM and they should have put Insigne as a LW from the start.

@messixaviesta wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I always said that it was a mistake for Prandelli to abandon the 5-3-2 that took him to the euro finals

Exactly although it was called a 3-5-2. Italy have played their best in that system itself.


They actually abandoned the 352 after the second group game, vs Croatia. And they kept the 442 diamond in the final, even tho it proved effective against Spain in the opening game

I heard that Prandelli doesn't what to play like Juve, b/c he doesn't want to be like Conte or something like that. I don't know if it's true, but it does sound stupid
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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Xifio on Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:46 pm

@adun101 wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I always said that it was a mistake for Prandelli to abandon the 5-3-2 that took him to the euro finals, especially because he was unable to find a workable alternative. I think Italy suffered because they built their team around an aging player - who would have felt the effects of the heat more - and then they replaced a creative and controlling partner with Motta of all people. Marchisio should have played CM and they should have put Insigne as a LW from the start.

@messixaviesta wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I always said that it was a mistake for Prandelli to abandon the 5-3-2 that took him to the euro finals

Exactly although it was called a 3-5-2. Italy have played their best in that system itself.


They actually abandoned the 352 after the second group game, vs Croatia. And they kept the 442 diamond in the final, even tho it proved effective against Spain in the opening game
exactly ... that 3-5-2 formation resulted in consecutive 1-1 draws ... the 4-3-1-2 resulted in wins vs. Ireland, England (on pens, but the domination in that game was BDSM), and most notably Germany ... Prandelli backed the formation that actually got them to the final -- the formation that the team was used to do, and had delivered both possession and wins with ... hindsight is 20-20, but it's ridiculous to criticize Prandelli for that decision ... TBH, it's hard to imagine a situation that a GOAT Spain (still on top of their game at the time) would have succumbed to ...


@adun101 wrote:I heard that Prandelli doesn't what to play like Juve, b/c he doesn't want to be like Conte or something like that. I don't know if it's true, but it does sound stupid
hahaha ... why, because Conte invented 3-5-2, and Prandelli is petty? it's hilarious if you believe a word of what you just wrote there ... rofl

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:19 am

@Xifio wrote:since Super Mario isn't delivering, Marchisio has decided to go Super Saiyan:




This is fantastic.

I'm going to have to double check these euro claims, that's not the way I remember it but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by adun101 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:47 am

@Xifio wrote:
exactly ... that 3-5-2 formation resulted in consecutive 1-1 draws ... the 4-3-1-2 resulted in wins vs. Ireland, England (on pens, but the domination in that game was BDSM), and most notably Germany ... Prandelli backed the formation that actually got them to the final -- the formation that the team was used to do, and had delivered both possession and wins with ... hindsight is 20-20, but it's ridiculous to criticize Prandelli for that decision ... TBH, it's hard to imagine a situation that a GOAT Spain (still on top of their game at the time) would have succumbed to ...


hahaha ... why, because Conte invented 3-5-2, and Prandelli is petty? it's hilarious if you believe a word of what you just wrote there ... rofl



One of those draw was after a great first half against Spain, who played too narrow. Ireland and England sucked. The 4312 is soft on the flanks and in the central defense, Germany had a few chances at 0-0. That game could have gone the other way

As for Prandelli-Conte, it was a title somewhere, can't remember where

Anyway, De Rossi is probably out, so it's time to bust out the Juve 352 Smile Too bad Balo and whoever don't know the movements Conte's forwards do
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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Juveman17 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:42 am

@Xifio wrote:since Super Mario isn't delivering, Marchisio has decided to go Super Saiyan:





best.gif.ever.

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Xifio on Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:18 pm

@adun101 wrote:De Rossi is probably out, so it's time to bust out the Juve 352 Smile Too bad Balo and whoever don't know the movements Conte's forwards do
De Rossi is out ... which is why it seems counterintuitive to me to play 3-5-2 ...

BUT, since Thiago Motta has been **** -- claiming that the heat is to blame for his lethargy, clearly assuming that we've all forgotten that he was born in Brazil, and grew up there till the age of 17 -- Prandelli can't see how else to protect Pirlo effectively ...



again, Verratti as a starter automatically makes this a lineup I unreservedly endorse ... plus, 3-5-2 makes it more possible to see all 3 of my favourites (Mario, Marco, and of course Cassà) on the pitch together ... go right ahead, Prandelli, make it happen ...

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by messixaviesta on Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:20 pm

Not bad for solidity but there is a disconnect between midfield and attack.

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by commando on Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:14 am

I don't think tactics or formations (or even player skill) matter in this World Cup. It is all down to the climactic conditions and which team can handle them better and/or have had more rest. I think Urugauy will be in better shape, having a day more of rest. Uruguay will eliminate Italy. Sorry Italia supporters, it is not your year.

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by InterMalia on Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:36 pm

Recoba on Pirlo: “Pirlo should be followed all the way to the changing rooms and then even into the bathroom".

 Laughing

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by zarola on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:47 pm

It was now or not for a very long time.

In 4 yrs.
No Cassano.
No De Rossi.
No Pirlo.
No Buffon.
No Giuseppe Rossi.
No Barzagli.
Who the hell is going to be our centerbacks for the future?

Who the hell is going to be creative?

De Sciglio, Darmian, El Shaarawy, Verratti, all look promising. But then what?

Balotelli also lost my trust.

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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Juveman17 on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:48 pm

Remember me?


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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Lord Spencer on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:50 pm

@zarola wrote:It was now or not for a very long time.

In 4 yrs.
No Cassano.
No De Rossi.
No Pirlo.
No Buffon.
No Giuseppe Rossi.
No Barzagli.
Who the hell is going to be our centerbacks for the future?

Who the hell is going to be creative?

De Sciglio, Darmian, El Shaarawy, Verratti, all look promising. But then what?

Balotelli also lost my trust.


Looks seriously dire.

Even the ones you did mention could simply stop developing and never reach something great.
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Re: Italia: La Nazionale II

Post by Juveman17 on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:59 pm

OFFICIAL PRANDELLI HAS RESIGNED

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