Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Don't call me James on Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:54 am

He's no slower than Benzema or Ibra. The thing with Suarez is that he has very elite explosiveness which is really all the speed he needs with the way he plays. He's not really reliant on pace.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by free_cat on Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:55 am

Ibra is surely slower nowadays.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by The Franchise on Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:57 am

Alex said good CF's..he doesnt think Ibra is good im sure Laughing
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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by free_cat on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:32 am

Higuain is another one I don't think is faster than Suarez, perhaps just a little bit.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:39 am

@alexjanosik wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Come on, Suarez is not slow. Not the fastest, but definitely not slow.


He is slow. Mention one game and instance where you have seen him outpace a player.I have very rarely seen him outpace anyone one on one.
Mention a CF who is slower than him. I cant think of any good ones.


Not at Barca, but he ran the length of the entire pitch being chased by 2 Everton players in January 2014 to score the 4th goal. I think it was Jagielka. Thing is, even if they get even with him, he has incredible upper body strength that can shrug off defenders.


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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Winter is Coming on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:50 am

I think what he's talking about Falcao (in his prime), Torres (prime), Eto'o (Prime), Henry (prime), etc were all faster.

He's not talking about Negredo, Llorente, Dezko, Kane of the world.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by alexjanosik on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:37 am

Benzema is definitely faster.
Suarez looks really slow to me. I see him losing races all the time even when has a yard on the defender. Maybe its just perception.
Regarding Ibra,do think he is good dani. Just dont think he is elite. He can play only one way.Cant adapt to different systems and settings.
Suarez has proven that he can perform at an elite level in many different roles and systems. He is as complete as they come which is why imo he is the best CF of this generation.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by missjb on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:48 am

he is not fast. But He makes up for it by basically thinking faster before his opponent read him... Well He is doing it by basically rely on his instinct that makes him overcome his weakness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8PHUG38Q1Q
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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by The Franchise on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:55 am

Ibra was a bit tongue in cheek, I just knew when you spoke about forwards of the elite kind you didnt mean Ibra was faster, you just didnt think he was on that level.

I dont really agree with that but I understand. He doesnt play another way, but he is/was so good that you should play to the way he plays, in my opinion..unless you are put in him a team with a better player (like Messi).

I still believe Ibra would have done better in a 2nd season with a different coach and I especially believe that version of Ibra could do a role similar to what Suarez does today in his role, at least in the offensive phase. A difference I accept though is Suarez is a clutch scorer whereas Ibra isnt, though he did score that fantastic one vs Madrid (he also scored 2 vs Arsenal, but they were getting hammered so a goal was coming with or without him I believe).

When you say of this generation though, who does that exclude and include? Whom are the oldest players he is better than?
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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Lucifer on Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:03 am

Ibra is better finisher than Suarez though but what Suarez offers is jst amazing. the guy loves to run ffs always traces ball lyk hungry bulldog also he is the most unselfish player I have seen. The way he is mixed with team who would believe he jst arrived last season
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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Winter is Coming on Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:06 am

I think Ibra biggest problem under Pep was his work rate. Pep is demanding in that regard, as well as he demands a lot from his players from defense to attack. Ibra was also a big personality and since his young days he didn't think he needed to prove himself.

Pep said it himself recently other then Messi he expect all of his other players to listen to him.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by alexjanosik on Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:13 am

I really dont think Ibra can do what Suarez does for us. Suarez does 3 jobs for us. Most games he plays as a hold up guy for us. Play with his back to goal(defender pressuring him), bring the ball under control,link up and bring others into play.
You could argue Ibra can do that. He is good as a target man and bringing others into play. Even then,for us his link up was not all that great. I felt he was not in sync with our players. Now you can argue that Ibra was in a new team,league and just needed time. That would be a fair point but then Suarez came into a new team,league and his link up has been excellent.

Secondly,Suarez offers excellent movement,something which Ibra cant provide.Suarez is a real threat in behind and his runs(both across the line and in behind) pose a real danger. He also occupies defenders thereby opening up space for the likes of Neymar and Suarez. Ibra simply cant offer anywhere near the movement.

Third, Suarez does so much with so little. He is basically the third wheel in attack and has to feed on scraps compared to Neymar and Messi. He gets very few touches and when he does it is not in favorable locations(its mostly congested).
Even then,he manages to constantly come up with moments to genius to unlock games. He has played barely a season for us and already has a collection of great goals and plays.And a lot of them were clutch.
How many moments of genius did Ibra have for us? I can barely think of any?I dont think Ibra will be able to produce moments of genius like Suarez does seeing so little of the ball and being the third wheel in attack. He couldnt deliver being the second wheel.

Am interested in hearing your opinion but I just dont think there is any comparison between Ibra and Suarez.IMO, Suarez is comfortably better.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by alexjanosik on Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:33 am

When I say of this generation, I mean post 2010. But my original statement was that he is the most complete after MVB and I stand by that.

It would be an interesting exercise to rank the strikers so lets do that. Lets draw a list of the top elite strikers post MVB.
I would include Romario,Shearer, Batistuta, Ronaldo, Raul ( know he is not a typical striker but for arguments sake lets include him), Eto'o,Vieri, Shevchenko,Makaay,Forlan, RVN, Henry, Drogba, Ibra(including him for you lol), Suarez.
I know am missing out on a couple so feel free to add any to the list.

IMO he is the most complete out of that list.
He can play multiple roles and systems to an elite level. Can play lone striker and with a partner.Scores goals in quantity and quality. Performs on the big stage, excellent link up and is a very good passer too.
All the others,they are good at one or two roles but just dont have the versatility of Suarez and ability to perform at an elite level in multiple roles and systems.
Hence why I rate him as the most complete since MVB.

Overall,out of that list, I rate him as the best after R9. Case can be made for Henry and Romario but imo Suarez is a better player than they were.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Bankz on Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:19 pm

@alex. What advantage is there of being the most complete cf? Its just like saying cr7 is more complete than messi, but we still pretty much know who we'll choose everytime. Anyway, what i'm saying is a cf or x player being more complete than another doesn't make them better. I agree with everyother thing u said apart from u saying suarez is the best cf since mvb. Lets even leave R9 aside, Romario for instance, prime henry for example, are better in pretty much almost everything..
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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Art Morte on Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:10 pm

On the Suarez pace debate, he is slow. It's almost funny how slow he is compared to how hard he trains. You'd expect someone with his attitude to become quick. But I guess he just has much more of those stamina cells than quickness cells.

Anyway, the way he plays, he doesn't really need to be any quicker. He is slow, but he is still hot to handle.
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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Don't call me James on Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:51 pm

Meh you can't really become fast through training. You can optimize your own potential speed but increasing I've never heard of that.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by CBarca on Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:09 pm

I wouldn't call Suarez slow. He ain't fast, but he ain't slow either. He's average.

Doesn't really need speed in his repertoire anyway

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Robespierre on Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:20 pm

I saw prime Ibra with my club , but I still believe Suarez is better than him.


Last edited by Robespierre on Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by windkick on Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:21 pm

I don't think he's that slow, but as people haven't mentioned he isn't fast. His main weapon is his explosiveness. Can go from chilling to turning and running full speed at the goal in a heart beat and that's all he really needs. Plus he's strong enough to muscle his way with the ball if fast defenders are harassing him while he runs at goal.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by windkick on Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:23 pm

@Robespierre wrote:Suarez is better than Ibra


Any age/version of Zlatan is better than Suarez? Or going by today's 34 year old Zlatan vs 28 year old Suarez?

They are different type of players though, not sure how this argument started.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Robespierre on Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:27 pm

Comparing both the players in their prime of course. Yes they're different but this is the real Suarez quality , he is increibly complete . Good post by alexjanosik ( i had to copy this nick )

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by alexjanosik on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:30 pm

@Bankz wrote:@alex. What advantage is there of being the most complete cf? Its just like saying cr7 is more complete than messi, but we still pretty much know who we'll choose everytime. Anyway, what i'm saying is a cf or x player being more complete than another doesn't make them better. I agree with everyother thing u said apart from u saying suarez is the best cf since mvb. Lets even leave R9 aside, Romario for instance, prime henry for example, are better in pretty much almost everything..


Ofcourse completeness matters. It is what has enabled him to be brilliant for us and completeness(or the lack of it) is what stopped Ibra from being good for us.
Think of it. Suarez was the main man for Liverpool and the guy through whom all the attacking play went.He was basically playing the Messi role for Liverpool.
He comes to us and is asked to play a completely different role. He is asked to play with back to goal,hold the ball up and bring others into play. Not only has he done that, he has also added excellent movement(across and in behind) and managed to consistently produce moments of genius seeing very little of the ball(compared to at Liverpool).
Ibra was asked to do something similar and he failed because he is nowhere near as complete and we didnt win much.Suarez passed with flying colors and we win the treble. I dont think we win a single trophy without Suarez last season and I dont think any CF could have done what he did.
I will give you another example.Why does Messi struggle to produce moments of genius for Argentina when he consistently does for us. There are a myriad of reasons but I think the most important one is that he sees much less of the ball and when he does see the ball it is not in the best of positions(compared to where he sees the ball for us). It is incredibly difficult to produce those moments of genius when you see less of the ball and not in good areas(especially when you are used to more).That is why what Suarez does for us is unbelievable. He sees so less of the ball and even when he does it is usually with his back to goal and not in the best areas.Yet he still manages those moments of genius in crucial games and at crucial moments.

So yes,completeness most definitely matters.The CR comparison isnt valid. He is nowhere near complete and Messi is definitely a more complete player.Heading,shooting with both feet doesnt equate to being more complete.

Suarez vs Romario/Henry. It is arguable and it would be interesting to debate but to say that Romario/Henry are better in all aspects is just hyperbole of the highest order.
I would say that peak Suarez(the Suarez of the last 2 seasons) is better than peak Henry and peak Romario. I think Suarez's last season at Liverpool was better than any Henry season at Arsenal. Just as many if not more highlight reels than Henry and more important to the team.The sign of how good a player is can often be gauged be taking them out of the team. Suarez dragged that Liverpool side and they were a Gerrard slip away from winning the title. It would have been a Maradonaesque achievement(when he took Napoli to the title). With Suarez out, Liverpool are struggling in mid table.
Henry also never had a stellar CL knockout campaign similar to the one Suarez had last season. Suarez was instrumental in every tie.
Henry also never performed to the expected level for the NT (and they were stacked)while Suarez has been stellar for Uruguay. And the difference in performance for the NT goes back to the completeness I mentioned.
I would take peak Suarez over peak Henry any day and Henry is one of my favorite players.
We can discuss Romario next but I would like you to respond to this first.

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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Lucifer on Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:37 pm

Though they are as similar as rock and water I would go with Henry over Suarez anyday as a striker
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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by Myesyats on Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:25 am

Pirloisjesus wrote:Though they are as similar as rock and water I would go with Henry over Suarez anyday as a striker

I would love to have Sammy back. Maybe it's just me being sentimental but Eto'o is prolly my favourite striker ever.

I think what sometimes holds people from admiting that Suarez is the best is his behaviour and character in general, on the pitch of course.

Suarez is incredible but for my liking I preffered Villa and Eto'o to him talking about earlier days.

I think MEN would be to good.
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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by The Franchise on Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:20 am

@alexjanosik regarding Ibra-Suarez role:

You argue Ibra could probably do the hold up portion of the Suarez, I think he can easily and probably at a better level. Because Suarez is so prone to diving when someone comes into his back, he doesnt get the call and its a lost possession. I dont think you can compare Ibra's use within Pep's system to this one, for one we are talking about small spaces and faster balls into him I think he did a very good job anyway at this part of the game (minus the Inter game in which is was horrible at this against Lucio and Samual).


Agreed Ibra doesnt offer the movement of Suarez, he plays for himself and doesnt often open up spaces for others.

The fact Suarez gets less touches than Neymar or Messi is neither here nor there for me honestly. I expect that a 9 will always get less touches than players like Neymar and Messi because they have no restriction of movement and he does. It would be the same with Lewandowski for example and I think he too could probably some moments of magic (though not to the degree or Suarez). I also think while Suarez gets less touches compared to Messi, I bet he touches the ball no less than Aguero does now for example. Suarez isnt starved of touches in this team, simply because we have the ball 65% of the game at least.

I disagree about Ibra not having any moments, but I dont want to get into it because our comparison isnt what each player did for the team (which Saurez wins) and which player did more magical things (closer, but Suarez wins too)..merely the role positionally and what I believe to be the number 1 most important thing Suarez currently brings (the first point, the hold up play)


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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

Post by The Franchise on Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:24 am

Regarding strikers in general.

Well first of all, if you include Forlan and Roy Makaay then surely including Ibra isnt for me. Its just common sense? Those were fantastic strikers but even Pep would probably admit he is better than them.

I dont think Suarez was better than Henry or Romario to be honest, especially Henry.

I also dont think Suarez is better than Shevchenko in his time.
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Re: Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

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