Luis Suárez : el Vampiro

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Post by Myesyats Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:20 pm

alexjanosik wrote:Dont agree on any of your points. No way is Neymar clearly better. It is your opinion and I can accept that.

The only truly good games at Messis absence by Suarez were the last one and the one he scored a hattrick. Remember that game when Suarez was around 7 times on an offside position... ~7 times in 1 (one) game!!! He sometimes annoys me to the limits.

Neymar has been the leader since Messi is sidelined purely because he's the better of the two. I understand that you prefer Suarez (you have made it very clear) but it's straight and simple that Neymar is the second best player in the world after Messi at the moment.


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Post by alexjanosik Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:35 pm

I dont only look at the highlight moments. I look at all the intangibles and donkey work that Suarez provides. Unfortunately it tends to go unnoticed. Suarez has been very good more than 2 games.
You mentio 7 offsides. You are kind of making my point. With Messi out, Suarez is pretty much the only way we are creating chances.
A ball into him(either a hoof from the defense) or one from midfield. He brings it under control, links up, releases others into space and then also offers movement opening up space. Take him out and we will struggle to create chances.
The 7 offsides just confirm his perpetual movement which plays a huge role in creating holes in the defense and creating space for others. Watch the goal Rakitic scored against Bate. Suarez drags defenders with his diagonal in to out movement freeing up Rakitic for a simple tap in.
Suarez can do what Neymar does. Neymar cant do Suarez's role.
Neymar is an exceptional player but the Uruguayan is better imo.
Lets just agree to disgaree.

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Post by Myesyats Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:43 pm

alexjanosik wrote:With Messi out, Suarez is pretty much the only way we are creating chances. Take him out and we will struggle to create chances.

disagree (may be true considering his replacement is Sandro but still disagree either way)
alexjanosik wrote:Suarez can do what Neymar does. Neymar cant do Suarez's role.
strongly disagree (Neymar can't do Suarez's role but Suarez can't do what Neymar does as well)



Agree with the donkey work though.

You're right, let's just leave it at that instead of playing the agree to disagree game.

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Post by Bankz Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:20 pm

I like u, u clearly make it clear that u prefare suarez which is not a bad thing tbh.. But, Lol, neymar is clearly and I mean clearly the better player than suarez.
Neymar has the highest rating in all of europe, he's the most creative player in la liga, he's the la liga top scorer, and he also has the highest amount of dribbles in europe too, all at thesame time.

Now, If you look at the last 7 matches, you would see that..
1. Neymar was the man of the match against bate at home.
2. Neymar was the man of the match against bate away.
3. Neymar was the man of the match against Rayo Vallecano.
4. Neymar was the man of the match against Getafe.
5. Neymar was the man of the against villarreal.
6. Neymar was the man of the match against sevilla (shared).

With Neymar being the man of the match in 6 of the last 7 matches with a rating of 9.3 per average in that time

I understand that u prefare suarez, but then the truth remains that neymar is just a better player than him, not just now alone but generally and like linetty said, that's not a slight on suarez as he's still the best CF in europe.
What suarez has over Neymar is just his work horse attitude and nothing more tbh.. As using what suarez can do that Neymar can't would also make suarez a better player than R9, henry and van basten by that logic..

This isn't me being a fanboy, but just cold hard facts.
Anyway, I still respect your opinion tho.. No biggie!!!
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Post by alexjanosik Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:56 pm

You simply saying that Neymar is clearly better doesnt make it true. How about bringing some real arguments. I can name atleast 5 things that Suarez does better than Neymar besides working hard and attitude.
Why has Neymar's level of play gone up in the past few weeks. Most certainly didnt happen by magic. Last season he was seen as a glorified poacher by most who only scored as much as he did because of Messi and Suarez. Just have to look at the thread in the Gen Sec to see that.
So what changed. The answer lies in what I have mentioned in this thread before.

His role has changed since Messi got injured. Before he was playing second fiddle to Messi. In a nutshell his job was to get on the end of Messi's diagonal ball over the top. Neymar wasnt able to express himself fully with Messi there. With Messi out, he gets to express himself and noticeably looks a better player. He was always this good. Just didnt get the chance to express himself.

Now consider Suarez. He is the third wheel and has to defer to Messi and Neymar. He has to do all the donkey work and the dirty work to make Enrique's stone age system work. It isnt a glamour role like Messi and Neymar have. So ofcourse he doesnt look as good.
But the genius of Suarez is that he makes the system work perfectly and even then manages to stand out and produce moments in unfavorable circumstances.
He produced as the man in Liverpool and now produces as a support player(who makes the system work) for us.
You ask Suarez to do what Neymar is doing now and he can easily do it. Liverpool Suarez was comfortably better than Neymar now. I think because Liverpool didnt play CL and because they werent a fancied team, many people missed out on Suarez's season. It is shame as he was unplayable and I have only seen 4 or 5 players play at that level consistently.
Ask Neymar to do what Suarez does for us and he wont be able to.
It is all about the role. I would be happy to hear your arguments but simply you saying Neymar is clearly better wont cut it.


Last edited by alexjanosik on Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Lucifer Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:04 pm

Not big fan of comparing players playing from same team because roles differ from player to player. It's like comparing brakes to steering and saying brakes of Ferrari are better than its steering doesn't make any sense does it. If u say Mustang brakes are better than Ferrari brakes it makes sense and can be compared on performances in similar situation.

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Post by alexjanosik Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:10 pm

I said as much in my post.

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Post by jibers Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:58 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
jibers wrote:Suarez is great but his first touch is so inconsistent as with his passing. Literally he he can make a 2 m pass look difficult sometimes. He can go from looking like R9 to rooney in the space of 5 minutes. What I love about him is his mentality. Even when he plays bad or is having a shit game, he keeps his head up and still contributes to the team, he runs, presses, harries defenders and always tries. That for me is his greatest asset. I can't believe Barcelona have these 3 monsters :facepalm:


His touch is not inconsistent. I find it to be outstanding. He doesnt try to bring the ball to a stop with his touch. He tries to open space with his touch which may give the impression that it is bad.
Neither is his passing inconsistent. It is deceivingly good and very rarely does he misplace a pass. Which is outstanding considering that most of his passes are one touch.


Well when you put it like that I can't disagree. When he tries to move the ball immediately he does lose the ball quite a bit. I suppose that is the risk when you are trying to shift play very quickly. I wouldn't say it is very rare. Very rare misplaced pass is a phrase I think I reserve for Xavi and Xavi alone.

On the Neymar vs Suarez I don't really understand the comparison tbh. People are so eager to rank players. They aren't fighting each other! This isn't like CR vs Real Madrid lol.
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Post by alexjanosik Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:46 am

Best volleyer in the game. Two sublime volleys in the space of 3 days. Van Basten would be proud. But apparently he is an average technician and Benzema is better.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:08 am

I'd say Soldado gives him a run for the title of "Best volleyer"







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Post by alexjanosik Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:28 am

Still think Suarez is better,especially with both feet. I knew he was a genius before he came here. But what I didnt expect was how well he could play as a target 9.
His bad image leads to him being underrated even by knowledgeable football fans.

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Post by messixaviesta Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:22 pm

alexjanosik wrote:Still think Suarez is better,especially with both feet. I knew he was a genius before he came here. But what I didnt expect was how well he could play as a target 9.
His bad image leads to him being underrated even by knowledgeable football fans.


alex, I agree with you.

What Neymar has done in the absence of Messi I completely appreciate. At this moment trying to make him out to be inferior will sound mean. However the one that amazes me most is Suarez and the one that the team needs the most I feel is Suarez.

If I were to say today Suarez is more important than Messi for this team then I could be pronounced insane. So let's not even go there.

I do think though that in a crunch game playing without Suarez is as a bad a nightmare as playing without Messi. In Messi's absence Iniesta can be the team's play maker and Neymar can do the direct dribbling but in Suarez's absence is there anyone who can do all that he does?

Before he joined us we were going nowhere. Luis Enrique was called Scrubrique and almost all of us had given up all hope. The one thing that made all the difference is the target man. Not just any target man but who is so brilliant, so mobile, so hard working, understands the game so well and is such a wonderful team player.

I knew he was a great player but I didn't know he was so otherworldly. I give you credit for having been such a big fan of his even before he joined us.

In the whole of 2015 if at all I can consider Suarez second to anyone it's only Messi.

In one sense Neymar missing in the top 3 of the Best Player In Europe has kind of been compensated by Suarez missing out on the Ballon D'or podium. Neymar missing twice may have been very unfair to him. However it is still pretty much impossible to accept Suarez's absence. Which player right through the year made such a trophy winning difference consistently to any team anywhere in the world during this calendar year? Messi yes but after that it just has to be Suarez.

As far as Suarez's talent goes he continues to amaze me more and more. Nowadays I have noticed he doesn't even need a second touch. He can do pretty much anything with the ball with one touch no matter where he receives it. Volleying as you mentioned is his speciality and man what goals those were!

Ballon D'or is the biggest whether we like it or not and in that sense Suarez is extremely unlucky to miss out in two consecutive years in spite of having been absolutely phenomenal for both Liverpool and Barcelona. Yes maybe as you said it's the dirty player reputation that goes against him but give the guy a break. How many so called clean superstar players would work as hard for their teams as he does?

We are such a lucky club that we have been able to replace one outstanding trinity with another. From Messi-Xavi-Iniesta we have moved on to Messi-Suarez-Neymar and we had just a blip of two to three years between them. Most clubs would give anything to have even one trio as good as these two. For all the criticism that we levy at so many people at Barca somebody somewhere must be doing something right. Otherwise this is just black magic!

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Post by futbol Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:46 pm

I agree, he is more important than Messi right now for the team. Messi's scoring can be compensated by Neymar and Suarez, Messi's playmaking can be compensated by Neymar and Iniesta and Messi's dribbling can also be compensated by Neymar and Iniesta. The team loses quality obviously but Messi's main attributes aren't completely lost on the team. If Suarez were to get injured, there is no one to play with back to goal, harrass the defenders relentlessly, drag defenders away with his off the ball movement etc. No one else really provides what he provides.

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Post by The Franchise Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:19 am

I think because of that relience, we should consider finding a second player who can do that.

Either a young guy or an old guy (Aduriz?) I dont know, but if he is missing, it changes the entire dynamic.

All those things Futbol said, plus a very viable option to go long to if we cant escape pressure.
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Post by alexjanosik Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:30 am

messixaviesta wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Still think Suarez is better,especially with both feet. I knew he was a genius before he came here. But what I didnt expect was how well he could play as a target 9.
His bad image leads to him being underrated even by knowledgeable football fans.


alex, I agree with you.

What Neymar has done in the absence of Messi I completely appreciate. At this moment trying to make him out to be inferior will sound mean. However the one that amazes me most is Suarez and the one that the team needs the most I feel is Suarez.

If I were to say today Suarez is more important than Messi for this team then I could be pronounced insane. So let's not even go there.

I do think though that in a crunch game playing without Suarez is as a bad a nightmare as playing without Messi. In Messi's absence Iniesta can be the team's play maker and Neymar can do the direct dribbling but in Suarez's absence is there anyone who can do all that he does?

Before he joined us we were going nowhere. Luis Enrique was called Scrubrique and almost all of us had given up all hope. The one thing that made all the difference is the target man. Not just any target man but who is so brilliant, so mobile, so hard working, understands the game so well and is such a wonderful team player.

I knew he was a great player but I didn't know he was so otherworldly. I give you credit for having been such a big fan of his even before he joined us.

In the whole of 2015 if at all I can consider Suarez second to anyone it's only Messi.

In one sense Neymar missing in the top 3 of the Best Player In Europe has kind of been compensated by Suarez missing out on the Ballon D'or podium. Neymar missing twice may have been very unfair to him. However it is still pretty much impossible to accept Suarez's absence. Which player right through the year made such a trophy winning difference consistently to any team anywhere in the world during this calendar year? Messi yes but after that it just has to be Suarez.

As far as Suarez's talent goes he continues to amaze me more and more. Nowadays I have noticed he doesn't even need a second touch. He can do pretty much anything with the ball with one touch no matter where he receives it. Volleying as you mentioned is his speciality and man what goals those were!

Ballon D'or is the biggest whether we like it or not and in that sense Suarez is extremely unlucky to miss out in two consecutive years in spite of having been absolutely phenomenal for both Liverpool and Barcelona. Yes maybe as you said it's the dirty player reputation that goes against him but give the guy a break. How many so called clean superstar players would work as hard for their teams as he does?

We are such a lucky club that we have been able to replace one outstanding trinity with another. From Messi-Xavi-Iniesta we have moved on to Messi-Suarez-Neymar and we had just a blip of two to three years between them. Most clubs would give anything to have even one trio as good as these two. For all the criticism that we levy at so many people at Barca somebody somewhere must be doing something right. Otherwise this is just black magic!


I think it is a travesty that Suarez isnt on the podium at the very least. He deserved to win last year and was completely ignored. In hindsight,it was expected. FIFA would never let him anywhere near the podium after the ban.
Regarding his play,certain aspects have surprised me. I have followed him since his Ajax days and I was well aware of his genius. I probably watched every match of his last season at Liverpool and it is imo one of the greatest individual seasons ever. He almost pulled off a Maradona by dragging Liverpool to the title.

Even then, I am amazed by certain elements of his play that I have seen for us. He is very good as the target man and bringing others into play.
Even by our standards,his link up and one touch passing is exceptional. Around the box, his one touch passing(with back to goal) has been a joy to behold. Whats more, he can do it with either foot and using various techniques(inside of foot, outside of foot). He has created countless openings with his one touch passing and link up play.

His footballing intelligence is also off the charts for a forward(even by our standards).
Playing for us, apart from technique the single biggest attribute needed imo is the appreciation of space. Its the reason why Fabregas was a bust cause he never understood the concept of space.
Watch Suarez play and you would be amazed by his exceptional appreciation of space. He creates space not just for himself but for the players around him. Notice also how he forces players to move and make specific movements to create space. I am not big on gifs and all but there are plenty of videos on youtube to display the above.
His spatial awareness, movement and vision are elite even by our standards.

He is unselfish. Just last game,he gave up a sure goal and let Neymar have a tap in. I think such intangibles have a tremendous impact on team spirit. At Liverpool, he was a bit more selfish(like any normal striker) but for us he has been truly selfless.

Lastly he raises the level of the entire team. When he was at Liverpool, I was not aware by how much. It has become evident since he has left. He raised the level of that entire team and made them punch above their weight for an entire season.
And he has done the same for us. Dont think it is a coincidence that Messi had his best ever season after a couple of disappointing ones and a below par World Cup. He has also elevated Neymar. Many doubted whether MSN would work. It is largely due to Suarez that MSN has worked so well. He elevates the level of MSN to the point where they are now regarded as the best trio ever.

All of the above mean that Suarez has gone up in my estimation(didnt think that was possible as I already rated him very highly for his Liverpool form)
Regarding Suarez vs Neymar, most consider Neymar better. I can respect that but I disagree.

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Post by Lucifer Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:26 am

Slowly we are transforming from Messidependcia to Suarzdependcia imo. The things he does for us can't be matched by any other player or even players in our team. He is Blue collar superstar if there was any.

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Post by messixaviesta Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:00 pm

Pirloisjesus wrote:Slowly we are transforming from Messidependcia to Suarzdependcia imo. The things he does for us can't be matched by any other player or even players in our team. He is Blue collar superstar if there was any.


Blue Collar Superstar is a wonderful term for him.

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Post by messixaviesta Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:14 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Still think Suarez is better,especially with both feet. I knew he was a genius before he came here. But what I didnt expect was how well he could play as a target 9.
His bad image leads to him being underrated even by knowledgeable football fans.


alex, I agree with you.

What Neymar has done in the absence of Messi I completely appreciate. At this moment trying to make him out to be inferior will sound mean. However the one that amazes me most is Suarez and the one that the team needs the most I feel is Suarez.

If I were to say today Suarez is more important than Messi for this team then I could be pronounced insane. So let's not even go there.

I do think though that in a crunch game playing without Suarez is as a bad a nightmare as playing without Messi. In Messi's absence Iniesta can be the team's play maker and Neymar can do the direct dribbling but in Suarez's absence is there anyone who can do all that he does?

Before he joined us we were going nowhere. Luis Enrique was called Scrubrique and almost all of us had given up all hope. The one thing that made all the difference is the target man. Not just any target man but who is so brilliant, so mobile, so hard working, understands the game so well and is such a wonderful team player.

I knew he was a great player but I didn't know he was so otherworldly. I give you credit for having been such a big fan of his even before he joined us.

In the whole of 2015 if at all I can consider Suarez second to anyone it's only Messi.

In one sense Neymar missing in the top 3 of the Best Player In Europe has kind of been compensated by Suarez missing out on the Ballon D'or podium. Neymar missing twice may have been very unfair to him. However it is still pretty much impossible to accept Suarez's absence. Which player right through the year made such a trophy winning difference consistently to any team anywhere in the world during this calendar year? Messi yes but after that it just has to be Suarez.

As far as Suarez's talent goes he continues to amaze me more and more. Nowadays I have noticed he doesn't even need a second touch. He can do pretty much anything with the ball with one touch no matter where he receives it. Volleying as you mentioned is his speciality and man what goals those were!

Ballon D'or is the biggest whether we like it or not and in that sense Suarez is extremely unlucky to miss out in two consecutive years in spite of having been absolutely phenomenal for both Liverpool and Barcelona. Yes maybe as you said it's the dirty player reputation that goes against him but give the guy a break. How many so called clean superstar players would work as hard for their teams as he does?

We are such a lucky club that we have been able to replace one outstanding trinity with another. From Messi-Xavi-Iniesta we have moved on to Messi-Suarez-Neymar and we had just a blip of two to three years between them. Most clubs would give anything to have even one trio as good as these two. For all the criticism that we levy at so many people at Barca somebody somewhere must be doing something right. Otherwise this is just black magic!


I think it is a travesty that Suarez isnt on the podium at the very least. He deserved to win last year and was completely ignored. In hindsight,it was expected. FIFA would never let him anywhere near the podium after the ban.
Regarding his play,certain aspects have surprised me. I have followed him since his Ajax days and I was well aware of his genius. I probably watched every match of his last season at Liverpool and it is imo one of the greatest individual seasons ever. He almost pulled off a Maradona by dragging Liverpool to the title.

Even then, I am amazed by certain elements of his play that I have seen for us. He is very good as the target man and bringing others into play.
Even by our standards,his link up and one touch passing is exceptional. Around the box, his one touch passing(with back to goal) has been a joy to behold. Whats more, he can do it with either foot and using various techniques(inside of foot, outside of foot). He has created countless openings with his one touch passing and link up play.

His footballing intelligence is also off the charts for a forward(even by our standards).
Playing for us, apart from technique the single biggest attribute needed imo is the appreciation of space. Its the reason why Fabregas was a bust cause he never understood the concept of space.
Watch Suarez play and you would be amazed by his exceptional appreciation of space. He creates space not just for himself but for the players around him. Notice also how he forces players to move and make specific movements to create space. I am not big on gifs and all but there are plenty of videos on youtube to display the above.
His spatial awareness, movement and vision are elite even by our standards.

He is unselfish. Just last game,he gave up a sure goal and let Neymar have a tap in. I think such intangibles have a tremendous impact on team spirit. At Liverpool, he was a bit more selfish(like any normal striker) but for us he has been truly selfless.

Lastly he raises the level of the entire team. When he was at Liverpool, I was not aware by how much. It has become evident since he has left. He raised the level of that entire team and made them punch above their weight for an entire season.
And he has done the same for us. Dont think it is a coincidence that Messi had his best ever season after a couple of disappointing ones and a below par World Cup. He has also elevated Neymar. Many doubted whether MSN would work. It is largely due to Suarez that MSN has worked so well. He elevates the level of MSN to the point where they are now regarded as the best trio ever.

All of the above mean that Suarez has gone up in my estimation(didnt think that was possible as I already rated him very highly for his Liverpool form)
Regarding Suarez vs Neymar, most consider Neymar better. I can respect that but I disagree.

alex, as always it's a pleasure reading your thoughts. Let me go on a limb and say something clearly.

Luis Suarez is the second best forward player I have seen in this decade so far. Only Lionel Messi can be considered better than him. I rate him higher than Cristiano, Ibrahimovic, van Persie, Aguero, Neymar, Villa, Falcao and whoever else one can think of.

Let's start with last year which you mentioned. Yes a Maradonaesque run in the league. Liverpool were very unlucky not to win the league. Then move on to the world cup. Our man comes off the hospital bed to score two goals and knock England out. If that biting incident hadn't happened who is to say in that mood what more he would have done. This would also mean no ban and imagine if he started with Barca right from the start of the season. Imagine if he had got to do a full pre-season.

Like you I am also bowled over by his one touch passing and link up and even hold up play. As you mentioned technically he is superb, can use both feet beautifully and he can even use his head (in more ways than one).

MSN working is another very good point that I would like to elaborate on. For several teams we hear only if player #1 leaves then player #2 can shine. However for us three bonafide superstars play so well in tandem. A lot of the credit for that must go to Luis Enrique and after that it's the players themselves who have shown such exemplary attitude, not least of all Suarez.

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Post by Winter is Coming Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:26 pm

"I have suffered a lot to end up Barcelona. This is the club where I always wanted to play," Suarez told reporters.

"I would not even leave if another club offered me three times my current wages.

"My family is happy and a departure is impossible. I aim to stay at Barcelona for many more years."
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Post by Lucifer Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:44 am

Winter is Coming wrote:
"I would not even leave if another club offered me three times my current wages.

Papa Neymar are u listening?

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Post by Lucifer Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:07 am

"Nobody thinks one is better than another, we see ourselves as teammates and not as stars. Both Neymar and I feel Messi is the best in the world and everyone knows it and nobody will compete against the other,”

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Post by Harmonica Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:41 am

There's been a bust up in tunnel after game, and Suarez involved. Spanish press is predicting 1-2 games ban in Cup.

Rest would actually do good for him, he's missed empty net now 3 games in a row.
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Post by free_cat Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:09 pm

His finishing was awful vs. Espanyol. Razz
However, rest doesn't really benefit strikers on a bad row.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:16 pm

Harmonica wrote:There's been a bust up in tunnel after game, and Suarez involved. Spanish press is predicting 1-2 games ban in Cup.

Rest would actually do good for him, he's missed empty net now 3 games in a row.
Kinda crazy Suarez is getting blamed for this when in the game he was the one holding Messi back after Pau's disgraceful stomp. According to Sport Masche was the main guy involved on the Barca side after the match, not Suarez.
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Post by Harmonica Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:18 pm

I think he ran too much, he doesn't really have a second gear, only first gear and runs every game to the end. In the long run I don't think that's a good practice. Sometimes he reminds me like a mad dog how he runs, like his body couldn't do it but his mind says yes. And it also takes freshness and concentration out of finishing.
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Post by Harmonica Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:20 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Harmonica wrote:There's been a bust up in tunnel after game, and Suarez involved. Spanish press is predicting 1-2 games ban in Cup.

Rest would actually do good for him, he's missed empty net now 3 games in a row.
Kinda crazy Suarez is getting blamed for this when in the game he was the one holding Messi back after Pau's disgraceful stomp. According to Sport Masche was the main guy involved on the Barca side after the match, not Suarez.
What can you do, that's Spain and RFEF for you. Nothing we can do put call that BS out.
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