Re: Morata is finished

by CBarca Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:58 am

Will wait and see on this one.

I think it's a lot of money for Morata, far too much, but I'll wait and see first tbh

by Kick Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:02 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:...except Chelsea? This guy is not the answer to Costa leaving.

Considering an inform Costa is one of the best CF's in the world, it is impossible to replace him properly. That said, inform Costa is only around for 3-4 months of the year, where he normally bags half of his goals. If Morata can score 15-20 this season, he'll have replaced Costa as best as we can hope for.

Firenze wrote:dunno why Chelsea fans are happy about signing all these bums, Bakayoko, Danilo, Morata

can do way better

you can even say they're all downgrades on what they have

Bakayoko is an upgrade on Matic, mate. Also, Danilo is likely going to City.

We still have the core (minus Costa) of our league winning team and have improved on two of our weaknesses, Cahill and Matic.

It's been a good summer.

by Blue Barrett Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:14 am

CBarca wrote:You guys still paid 100m for Bale lol

I don't know where you're coming from with 120m, 130m for Bale...unless you're just adding GL tax? All of the news at the time were reporting it was 100m and I recall there was a bunch of back and forth about whether the fee was actually bigger than C. Ronaldo's or not. If it had been 120, 130m it obviously wouldn't have even been a question.

Madrid did well on Morata business wise but as usual I'm expecting if Madrid end up moving on James and Bale he'll probably forget the transfer fees originally paid (mind you, astronomically high for both), set an arbitrary cutoff date for that summer and talk about how they managed to move Bale and James for 100m and use that money to buy Mbappe for "zero net spend" "wow florentino"

The man probably read rubbish like The Sun/Daily Mail/Daily Star and threw a blanket statement on "English media". Wouldn't blame him. Not sure he knows who to trust as far as English news outlets go.

by sportsczy Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:18 am

Asking Morata to score 15-20 goals as the featured striker is hopeful as opposed to realistic. Reasons he went on a scoring run at Madrid:
- He didn't start any of the difficult games
- When he did come in against top opponents, he did well as he could use his speed against tired defenses
- Benzema and Ronaldo were often rested together.... so Morata was the one that receiving all the scoring opportunities (not always the case; but often to end the season).

Just look at the opponents against he scored his last 7 goals:
- Hat trick against Leganes
- Sporting Gijon
- Deportivo La Coruna
- Double against Granada

And you know the common thread in all those games? No Ronaldo or Benzema playing next to him.

by Blue Barrett Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:18 am

As Kick said, we've never had more than 3-4 months of "top striker" Costa. That's like 40% of a season. The remaining 60% he's in absolute garbage form and can't even connect simple short passes without any defender within a mile of him while at the same time missing sitters and tap ins. And then there's the issue of him asking to leave for Atletico every single transfer window. Costa can go *bleep* himself for all I care, the walking red card. He's Atletico's problem now.

Oh and if they think they're going to get him for a dirt cheap price, they're in for a shock. I wouldn't put it beyond Chelsea to give him the Malouda treatment until his contract runs out, especially since he has zero respect for the club and has been pulling different dirty moves to drive down our asking fee. Just an awful "professional" all round.

by Blue Barrett Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:21 am

sportsczy wrote:Asking Morata to score 15-20 goals as the featured striker is hopeful as opposed to realistic. Reasons he went on a scoring run at Madrid:
- He didn't start any of the difficult games
- When he did come in against top opponents, he did well as he could use his speed against tired defenses
- Benzema and Ronaldo were often rested together.... so Morata was the one that receiving all the scoring opportunities (not always the case; but often to end the season).

Just look at the opponents against he scored his last 7 goals:
- Hat trick against Leganes
- Sporting Gijon
- Deportivo La Coruna
- Double against Granada

And you know the common thread in all those games? No Ronaldo or Benzema playing next to him.

I get this but why do people say he only scores against farmers and in the same breath ignore the vital goals he scored in the CL for Juventus? Can't have it both ways.

My main (and perhaps only) issue with him is his mentality tbh. I read an interview he did with The Guardian back in April and it just revealed to me that he's a confidence type of player. His form really relies on how he feels. Which imo is not a good thing at all. He's the type of player to drop his had and be moody when things don't go his way. At least that's what I got from that interview, and it bothers me.

That said, I'll never doubt what Conte can do with players after his work on Moses, Alonso and Luiz last season. Hopefully Morata hits the ground running.

by Kick Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:25 am

sportsczy wrote:Asking Morata to score 15-20 goals as the featured striker is hopeful as opposed to realistic. Reasons he went on a scoring run at Madrid:
- He didn't start any of the difficult games
- When he did come in against top opponents, he did well as he could use his speed against tired defenses
- Benzema and Ronaldo were often rested together.... so Morata was the one that receiving all the scoring opportunities (not always the case; but often to end the season).

Just look at the opponents against he scored his last 7 goals:
- Hat trick against Leganes
- Sporting Gijon
- Deportivo La Coruna
- Double against Granada

And you know the common thread in all those games? No Ronaldo or Benzema playing next to him.

Good thing we don't have Ronaldo or Benzema in our team Laughing

I don't understand what you're saying, we set up completely differently to Madrid, our CF is our main scoring threat. Not Hazard, Not Pedro, not Willian. Morata was a big game player at Juve so I don't doubt he has the ability to score against all opposition.

Not saying Morata will succeed, but Madrid fans are making it sound like he's a mid table CF, when he clearly isn't.

Blue Barrett wrote:As Kick said, we've never had more than 3-4 months of "top striker" Costa. That's like 40% of a season. The remaining 60% he's in absolute garbage form and can't even connect simple short passes without any defender within a mile of him while at the same time missing sitters and tap ins. And then there's the issue of him asking to leave for Atletico every single transfer window. Costa can go *bleep* himself for all I care, the walking red card. He's Atletico's problem now.

Oh and if they think they're going to get him for a dirt cheap price, they're in for a shock. I wouldn't put it beyond Chelsea to give him the Malouda treatment until his contract runs out, especially since he has zero respect for the club and has been pulling different dirty moves to drive down our asking fee. Just an awful "professional" all round.

With Morata joining for a decent price, I won't be surprised if we Malouda him. Costa has lost all of his leverage, now. At this rate, Morata will replace Costa in the spain squad unless Costa leaves to join someone other than Atleti.

by Mr Nick09 Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:25 am

Firenze wrote:dunno why Chelsea fans are happy about signing all these bums, Bakayoko, Danilo, Morata

can do way better

you can even say they're all downgrades on what they have

Danilo is going to City for 35 millions bro, we did it

by sportsczy Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:27 am

With Juve, his crucial goals were on the counter attack... again, with space. Bayern and Real Madrid obviously would take over the games and Italian managers/tactics work best as a counter team. It was the perfect scenario.

If Chelsea intend to sit back and suck opponents in and then hit them with a counter, he will do well. His struggles happen in tight spaces. His technique and movement aren't very good in traffic.

by Mr Nick09 Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:28 am

Bakayoko is not an upgrade on Matic, come on Kick, he reminds me of Kondogbia, another elite athlete but mediocre footballer. He played in a system at Monaco that hid his weaknesses, as long as you plan on doing the same, ok. if not, if you want him to be a bit more ambitious he will struggle simply because the football played at chelsea with the pressure, will be of a higher difficulty than at monaco.

by sportsczy Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:30 am

Conte is far too good of a manager tactically. That's why I think both Bakayoko and Morata will do relatively well despite their limitations.

But they won't be world beaters at least initially. Conte will need to teach them a few tricks.

Kante protecting Bakayoko is a huge.

by Kick Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:32 am

sportsczy wrote:With Juve, his crucial goals were on the counter attack... again, with space. Bayern and Real Madrid obviously would take over the games and Italian managers/tactics work best as a counter team. It was the perfect scenario.

If Chelsea intend to sit back and suck opponents in and then hit them with a counter, he will do well. His struggles happen in tight spaces. His technique and movement aren't very good in traffic.

Considering our CF's are required to have good hold up play, poaching abilities and to be excellent on counters, I think he'll be fine in that regard. Quite a few of our goals came from counters. That's half of Kante's game.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Bakayoko is not an upgrade on Matic, come on Kick, he reminds me of Kondogbia, another elite athlete but mediocre footballer. He played in a system at Monaco that hid his weaknesses, as long as you plan on doing the same, he will struggle simply because the football played at chelsea with the pressure, will be of a higher difficulty than at monaco.

Watched Matic recently? Bakayoko is an improvement.

by Mr Nick09 Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:34 am

MOrata will do well because he will actually be the premier option at Chelsea to score goals. There is a difference between playing with CR and trying to set him up, and playing with guys trying to set you up.

In your example Sports, you described exactly that. even if the opposition was weaker, when he was featured a the lead guy, he delivered, and I'm not worried about who he played against because he already demonstrated he can score against bigger teams on the bigger stage.

I joke a lot but i think Chelsea struck a great deal, some guys deserve a break to show just how magnificent they truly can be, and Morata just earned his break. If there was interest on the market for him imo it's because teams see exactly that.

Time will tell, but i think time will be on Morata's side, Chelsea will feed him from all directions and he will score abundantly, or at least like a normal elite striker.

By the way, Mr 40 goals per season Auba stayed where he is, overrated scrub

by Kick Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:37 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:MOrata will do well because he will actually be the premier option at Chelsea to score goals. There is a difference between playing with CR and trying to set him up, and playing with guys trying to set you up.

In your example Sports, you described exactly that. even if the opposition was weaker, when he was featured a the lead guy, he delivered, and I'm not worried about who he played against because he already demonstrated he can score against bigger teams on the bigger stage.

I joke a lot but i think Chelsea struck a great deal, some guys deserve a break to show just how magnificent they truly can be, and Morata just earned his break. If there was interest on the market for him imo it's because teams see exactly that.

Time will tell, but i think time will be on Morata's side, Chelsea will feed him from all directions and he will score abundantly, or at least like a normal elite striker.

By the way, Mr 40 goals per season Auba stayed where he is, overrated scrub

In a world where Walker goes for ~50m, Lukaku for at least 75m, and Mbappe could be over 150m, Morata for 60m is a good deal for Chelsea. Especially when he supposed price was closer to 80m a few weeks ago.

All I can say is that he will get chances, no doubt about it. This team is too good to not create chances for him.

by Mr Nick09 Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:49 am

It's 80 millions + 5 mil in bonuses lmao, 60 mil lol. You paid market value for him, not some kind of discounted fee

even Di Marzio who broke the news reported the correct fee, english medias lol

by Kick Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:54 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:It's 80 millions + 5 mil in bonuses lmao, 60 mil lol. You paid market value for him, not some kind of discounted fee

even Di Marzio who broke the news reported the correct fee, english medias lol

I trust the Telegraph and the BBC over any other media, and they're reporting 60m pounds. That's roughly 70m euros.

by Mr Nick09 Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:56 am

i trust Di Marzio, and Marca more than british rags

by rincon Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:58 am

I'm not sold on Bakayoko, doesn't look like anything special. Seems limited but should work fine at Chelsea. Fabinho looked muuuch more impressive for Monaco.

by Kick Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:02 am

rincon wrote:I'm not sold on Bakayoko, doesn't look like anything special. Seems limited but should work fine at Chelsea. Fabinho looked muuuch more impressive for Monaco.

Based on the two games against Juve? Or his entire season?

by rincon Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:16 am

In the two games against Juve he was really poor so I'm not judging him just on those. I saw maybe ~10 Monaco games or so, so its not much, just the impression I got.

by Blue Barrett Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:24 am

sportsczy wrote:With Juve, his crucial goals were on the counter attack... again, with space. Bayern and Real Madrid obviously would take over the games and Italian managers/tactics work best as a counter team. It was the perfect scenario.

If Chelsea intend to sit back and suck opponents in and then hit them with a counter, he will do well. His struggles happen in tight spaces. His technique and movement aren't very good in traffic.

Chelsea had the most goals on the counter last season in the PL. We're absolutely devastating on the counter. We actually should have had a few more goals if it wasn't for Costa who kept breaking down our moves. Replace that with Morata and you can see why he's likely to do well.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Bakayoko is not an upgrade on Matic, come on Kick, he reminds me of Kondogbia, another elite athlete but mediocre footballer. He played in a system at Monaco that hid his weaknesses, as long as you plan on doing the same, ok. if not, if you want him to be a bit more ambitious he will struggle simply because the football played at chelsea with the pressure, will be of a higher difficulty than at monaco.

It always makes me laugh when non Chelsea fans try to paint Matic as some great player. Trust me, if you watched Matic week in week out the way we did the past 2 and half years, you'd realise that Bakayoko IS an upgrade, especialy since he's 22 and has a lot of room for improvement. Conte not only sent scouts to watch Bakayoko, but also went to about 3 Monaco games himself last season to watch Bakayoko before making the decision to move for him. Obviously he sees something in the player. I've learned not to doubt Conte's judgement of a player. Notice how Conte's also trying to get rid of Matic? He wouldn't do that if Matic is as good as you lot claim Laughing

Matic will do well in Serie A though. That league won't expose his weaknesses nearly as often so he'll be a good signing for Juve.

by Blue Barrett Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:28 am

£58m (€65.5m) rising to £70m (€80m) as add ons is the deal. So it could in fact end up being €80m. And if it ends up being €80m, it means the player has realised all the targets set with the add ons.....which means he'd have been successful in a Chelsea shirt. Which would make it well worth it.

This is the same as saying Lukaku is £100m. You're not entirely wrong but as of now, he cost £75m.

by halamadrid2 Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:44 am

Why are people squabbling over transfer fee?

British media say it is 60mill and spanish media say it is 80mill. We won't know until well after the deal is signed.

Lol at sport explaining away his goalscoring record as "scoring against the weak teams". I remember clearly how ZZ put Benz in against one of these weak teams be cause his drought was getting embarrassing and he still failed to score. Yet again we sell the better striker, in favour of the inferior one.

If we wanted our CF to be solely a support striker and not scorer, I am sure we could've kept James and have him play that role. Like the previous seasons we will be fine because Ronaldo will score all our goals or Bale in Ronaldo's absence but when Ronaldo regresses to the point we can't rely on him for goals, reality will hit us hard in the face because there aren't many quality strikers on the market and we just let one go

When Isco leaves next season because Bale and Benz are blocking his playingtime (he was in the leave boat last Jan with Morata) I will look forward to how his time with us will explained away by saying "he was only good against the smaller teams" Laughing

by iKIDSTER Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:15 pm

sportsczy wrote:Asking Morata to score 15-20 goals as the featured striker is hopeful as opposed to realistic. Reasons he went on a scoring run at Madrid:
- He didn't start any of the difficult games
- When he did come in against top opponents, he did well as he could use his speed against tired defenses
- Benzema and Ronaldo were often rested together.... so Morata was the one that receiving all the scoring opportunities (not always the case; but often to end the season).

Just look at the opponents against he scored his last 7 goals:
- Hat trick against Leganes
- Sporting Gijon
- Deportivo La Coruna
- Double against Granada

And you know the common thread in all those games? No Ronaldo or Benzema playing next to him.

If you have ever heard about xG (Expected Goals), here's some Morata's numbers for you:

2016/17 - 0.70 xG/90 + 0.22 xA/90 (add he's not a penalty or set piece taker) - it's extremely awesome numbers even against weak teams. Also you say that "the common thread..No Benzema No Ronaldo" - so what? In Chelsea it's only Hazard and his xG is much smaller than Morata's teammate who he played with in La Liga - James.

Also if we take Morata stats for Juventus in 2015/16 it's still very decent numbers:

0.48 xG/90 + 0.24 xA/90; Open Play 0.35 xG/90 + 0.17 xA/90

Same season Juventus forwards:

Dybala Open Play 0.33 xG/90 + 0.18 xA/90
Mandzukic Open Play 0.26 xG/90 + 0.11 xA/90

I don't get your skepticism.

by Turok_TTZ Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:25 pm

Morata will do fine... As long as he is focal point he will be fine. Though I've never rated conte begin with, if he is actually worth his reputation, he will figure out the best way to maximize Morata's game.

Whether Conte is up to the task remains to be seen.

by chad4401 Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:04 pm

Anyway on a more serious note good luck to morata, should do OK at Chelsea since they have no other real striker to bench him, he will get plenty of games prove if he is elite or not, then people can stfu about him already.

Lastly isn't funny hala and the squad haven't said word about chokeguain all summer, but constantly giving benzema crap, 4 seasons as a starter 3 cl won and the guy gets nothing but butthurt Laughing

, you and the rest lost the war and the battle after the 10th, top President flo knows how to separate elite from shit, hopefully bench warmer scrubsco leaves, just so I can read how amazing that is too Proud

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