Liverpool vs. Southampton | Aug 17th 13:30 GMY

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Post by Helmer on Sun 17 Aug 2014, 18:02

no that goal was not Skrtel's fault at all. That is way stupid way of thinking of covering each other in such closed spaces, leaving even more space for other players into box; it was a run from a FB and Lucas should have been aware of it.

But as Nishy said, it was BR's fault to play Gerrard and Lucas together and this all was to get Coutinho central, which didnt work anyways. I would be happy with 4-3-3

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Post by Curtinho on Sun 17 Aug 2014, 19:28

Agree to disagree. When you play you should be moving over to cover especially in a situation like that where Lovren pushes up. Wasn't the best game but we got it done.

Sterling, Henderson and Mignolet were fantastic. Lucas and Johnson were bad. I liked Allen, Studge, Lovren and Manquillo also. Coutinho left me wanting more.

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Post by Art Morte on Sun 17 Aug 2014, 19:32

Lucas wasn't bad, but he's not what we need in that position.

Johnson was good, imo. Didn't make defensive mistakes and got forward well.
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Post by Helmer on Sun 17 Aug 2014, 22:16

El Cujo wrote:Agree to disagree. When you play you should be moving over to cover especially in a situation like that where Lovren pushes up. Wasn't the best game but we got it done.

covering for each other creates chaos, specially when the opposition players are near to your box with the ball. You just have to stick to your position and do your job and the tracking is required from other players if someone is making a run from MF, specially that holds true in today's case because there are no rules but imo, covering for each other is done mostly on counters; because all our team players are out of position.

Most important thing is,
last season, same fixture 0 points and this season 3 points...each and every point earned before Boxing day is really really important.

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Post by Don't call me James on Sun 17 Aug 2014, 22:52

Shits lads, 5am I went down to the pub and it's 2pm now and I just got home.  drinking drinking drinking  Great day adn thank the football gods for the victory.

My views later aas I'm still not in a state at the momemt to discuss anything.

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Post by stevieg8 on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 05:26

A quality victory. Good to see us getting the win.

Interesting to see how Wanyama marked Coutinho out of the game... We need two mobile midfielders with him, I think with Can or Allen in for Lucas we'll see more from Cou. It'll be harder for an opposing DM to shadow his every move when he's flanked by Hendo + another MF, and Gerrard behind them.

Was incredibly impressed with Manquillo - looked very class aside from a few nervy passes. I think he's going to be very good for us this year.

Similarly impressed with how Lambert changed our game, he brought on quite a bit of energy and did a great job pressing from the top. Really made a difference in our set-up as a late game entrant.

Finally, want to mention how pleased I am that the two weak-links in our side today (Lucas and GJ), imo, both have ready replacements that we'd all feel comfortable seeing start next week. I think it's great to see that we're comfortable with a few of our second or third choice players in the squad. Our first 11 is that much better simply from the competition for spots. Although I'd prefer not to see names like Lucas in the starting 11, it doesn't make me worry the same way starting backups used to (Jonjo Shelvey as a number 9, anyone?). That's pretty massive.
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Post by Don't call me James on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 06:53

Liverpool vs. Southampton | Aug 17th 13:30 GMY - Page 3 14951517301_25f789fcd5_o

Liverpool vs. Southampton | Aug 17th 13:30 GMY - Page 3 14954712555_b257cea1ea_o

Their goal
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Liverpool vs. Southampton | Aug 17th 13:30 GMY - Page 3 14954411942_f7b3fe7185_o

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Post by Art Morte on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 07:51

@stevieg8 wrote:
Was incredibly impressed with Manquillo - looked very class aside from a few nervy passes. I think he's going to be very good for us this year.

Finally, want to mention how pleased I am that the two weak-links in our side today (Lucas and GJ), imo, both have ready replacements that we'd all feel comfortable seeing start next week.


How can you say that you were really impressed by Manquillo and next call Johnson a weak link in the game? Glen was the better one of our full-backs yesterday.
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Post by Nishankly on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 07:57

Seeing that goal and giving it percentages as to whose(right usage?) fault it was I'd give,

Skrtel 60%: Was ball watching the entire move, Activated only when Clyne was through, The moment Lovren had cushioned in on Pelle, Skrtel should have moved at least 2-3 yards to cover that IMO.

Lucas 20%: Could have tracked Clyne's run or no way he was going to stop Clyne doing that run or stop him from reaching the ball after the ball was played, Even if he had started running before that throw in that started the move.


Lovren 10%: Meh
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Post by Nishankly on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 07:58

@Art Morte wrote:
@stevieg8 wrote:
Was incredibly impressed with Manquillo - looked very class aside from a few nervy passes. I think he's going to be very good for us this year.

Finally, want to mention how pleased I am that the two weak-links in our side today (Lucas and GJ), imo, both have ready replacements that we'd all feel comfortable seeing start next week.


How can you say that you were really impressed by Manquillo and next call Johnson a weak link in the game? Glen was the better one of our full-backs yesterday.


Performance wise the bottom 2 were Lucas and GJ, Manquillo and Coutinho a close third and fourth.

I think you should lay off the lad, Its his first PL match and he's not even played 5 competitive games in the La Liga. He did ok.
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Post by DeletedUser#1 on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 08:04

@Art Morte wrote:
@stevieg8 wrote:
Was incredibly impressed with Manquillo - looked very class aside from a few nervy passes. I think he's going to be very good for us this year.

Finally, want to mention how pleased I am that the two weak-links in our side today (Lucas and GJ), imo, both have ready replacements that we'd all feel comfortable seeing start next week.


How can you say that you were really impressed by Manquillo and next call Johnson a weak link in the game? Glen was the better one of our full-backs yesterday.


Did you watch the same game as rest of us Art Very Happy ?

Manquillo blocked 3 crosses. I don't think GJ has blocked 3 crosses over the past 2 seasons... Laughing

Not to mention, when Tadic realized he isn't getting anything on Manquillo's side he switched..and no wonder, their best chances came from our left side (including their goal) and another chance identical which we survived.

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Post by Red Alert on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 09:38

Nishy wrote:Seeing that goal and giving it percentages as to whose(right usage?) fault it was I'd give,

Skrtel 60%: Was ball watching the entire move, Activated only when Clyne was through, The moment Lovren had cushioned in on Pelle, Skrtel should have moved at least 2-3 yards to cover that IMO.

Lucas 20%: Could have tracked Clyne's run or no way he was going to stop Clyne doing that run or stop him from reaching the ball after the ball was played, Even if he had started running before that throw in that started the move.


Lovren 10%: Meh


The goal was Lucas fault...

He didn't track the runner. Only reason Skrtel's to "blame" is because he's trying to cover the space behind Lovren/Lucas and comes in late. It was hardly his fault (although he made a mistake when they hit the bar in the 90th minute). Lovren and Lucas (and I guess Raheem too) were rooted to the spot so Martin had to try and fix their mistakes.

Leiva won't make it at Liverpool if he keeps playing with Gerrard next to him. It's as simple as that.

@Art Morte wrote:
@stevieg8 wrote:
Was incredibly impressed with Manquillo - looked very class aside from a few nervy passes.  I think he's going to be very good for us this year.

Finally, want to mention how pleased I am that the two weak-links in our side today (Lucas and GJ), imo, both have ready replacements that we'd all feel comfortable seeing start next week.  


How can you say that you were really impressed by Manquillo and next call Johnson a weak link in the game? Glen was the better one of our full-backs yesterday.


He could of scored the winner in the 94th minute and people would be blaming him for not passing it to a better option. Lol. He and Skrtel have become the biggest scapegoats in the Liverpool squad. And it's all because we don't know how to set up defensively which puts every single defender under pressure and they get the blame for it.

Lucas nor Gerrard gave our defence no cover at all or didn't offer anything really going forward. Their midfield dominated us. We didn't create anything worthy enough. All of our attacks came through one Raheem Sterling. Apart from Raheem, we didn't have a clue on finding any sort of avenue to goal. Hopefully Lallana can help take the load off Coutinho, as his presence was dominated by Wanyama, but the lack of creativity in this team right now is high. And we're still a defensive mess so I really don't understand how our midfield can be so redundant at times. It's pretty much just Jordan carrying us on his shoulders half the time. Laughing
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Post by DeletedUser#1 on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 09:49

That Lovren's Alonso-esque pass to Manquillo in first half though. GIF please DCMJ.

Surprised RA hasn't blamed their goal on Lovren Laughing

So RA...Tell us how badly we'll lose at Etihad.

3-0? or we'll beat Hodgson's record at Etihad ?

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Post by Red Alert on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 09:58

Why would I blame Lovren for the goal if he wasn't at fault? lol

As for my prediction:

Natalie Portman wrote:
...

BR has no game plan away from home. We're so pedestrian. And he can't complain about money when he spends it mostly on squad players/shit. Wish we had a decent manager

Sick of this clown....this is the best chance to get back to the top 4, but his persistence with out-of-form players and lacklustre away coaching is denying us this chance.

We'll lose worse than Spurs at Etihad. Quote me on that.

I think you may be onto something if we insist on playing Lucas next to Gerrard. hmm

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Post by Art Morte on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 10:04

Natalie Portman wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:
@stevieg8 wrote:
Was incredibly impressed with Manquillo - looked very class aside from a few nervy passes. I think he's going to be very good for us this year.

Finally, want to mention how pleased I am that the two weak-links in our side today (Lucas and GJ), imo, both have ready replacements that we'd all feel comfortable seeing start next week.


How can you say that you were really impressed by Manquillo and next call Johnson a weak link in the game? Glen was the better one of our full-backs yesterday.


Did you watch the same game as rest of us Art Very Happy ?

Manquillo blocked 3 crosses. I don't think GJ has blocked 3 crosses over the past 2 seasons... Laughing

Not to mention, when Tadic realized he isn't getting anything on Manquillo's side he switched..and no wonder, their best chances came from our left side (including their goal) and another chance identical which we survived.


Blocked 3 crosses, wow, what a performance  Rolling Eyes 

Johnson wasn't to blame for their goal or other dangerous attacks of theirs, did his defensive duties impeccably and provided a much better option going forward than Manquillo. Who, btw, got caught out of position a couple of times, but anyway, he had a fine debut, but Johnson was clearly the better player on the day.
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Post by DeletedUser#1 on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 10:30

@Art Morte wrote:
Natalie Portman wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:

How can you say that you were really impressed by Manquillo and next call Johnson a weak link in the game? Glen was the better one of our full-backs yesterday.


Did you watch the same game as rest of us Art Very Happy ?

Manquillo blocked 3 crosses. I don't think GJ has blocked 3 crosses over the past 2 seasons... Laughing

Not to mention, when Tadic realized he isn't getting anything on Manquillo's side he switched..and no wonder, their best chances came from our left side (including their goal) and another chance identical which we survived.


Blocked 3 crosses, wow, what a performance  Rolling Eyes 



Uhm. It's kind of the most important job of a fullback you know Very Happy

It's like saying..o Striker scored goals, wow...what a performance sarcastically Razz .

Actually agree with RA (Christ, it's happening) on that. There are few things I dislike more than Lucas-Gerrard pivot in a 4-2-3-1. Hope we're back to 4-3-3 next Monday.

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Post by Art Morte on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 12:35

Both Johnson and Manquillo did their defensive duties just fine - and it was a very fine debut for the lad, especially considering how little top level first-team football he's played - but Johnson did quite a bit more offensively - which is also important for our full-backs - and therefore was the better full-back, imo.
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Post by iftikhar on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 12:48

I think Rodgers didn't want to play too many new/untested players in the opening game. Otherwise we would have seen Enrique and Emre.
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Post by stevieg8 on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 14:09

Manquillo shut down Tadic on his side, blocked a number of crosses, and had an almost 90% passing accuracy. I don't remember any attacks really coming down Soton's left for a reason.

Meanwhile, crosses routinely came in from Johnson's side, he enjoyed skying 40 yard shots, misplaced quite a few passes in the attacking third, and according to at least one source made only one tackle (albeit a goal saving one) the entire game. Not a great performance in my opinion. Not to mention the majority of Soton's attack came on his side of the field, including all of their best chances aside from the 88th minute.

Regardless, the whole point of my post was how happy I was to see us winning despite having a few players who aren't first choice in the team. Glen is a very able backup, and I won't be upset to see his name on the teamsheet in a limited capacity this year. Not sure how that amounts to me scapegoating him, RA.

Also, the goal was clearly Lucas' fault. He needed to track that runner. If Skrtel moves over any earlier, they have two players free in the middle and score anyway, and we're blaming Skrtel for moving out of position. Lucas needs to track that run from the fullback.

Absolutely no idea how anyone can say Lovren was "rooted to the spot", though. He needed to stop the pass coming in, if he tried to track the fullback the guy with the ball would've been through on goal. His mistake was failing to stop the pass, but it was a hell of a backheel so I can't really blame him.
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Post by Curtinho on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 14:42

I don't know how anyone could think Lucas or Johnson had a good game. They won 0 tackles between them. They constantly missed coverage and while Lucas I think just won't return to form because of injury, Johnson just doesn't look like he cares. There were numerous 50/50 balls that he was just like 'nah, I don't feel like it' and didn't bother even trying. He gave the ball away numerous times in the offensive end, and kept taking ridiculous long shots wasting good possession.

Also if you play soccer you can see that while there was a breakdown in coverage Skrtel has to take responsibility for that goal (not full, but a large part). Watch as the play develops there is nobody on the left side for Skrtel to cover and he has 3 people in front of him on that side. As soon as Lovren moves up he should be shifting over because the ball is there and the only way they are coming to the net is if they play through on that side at the time. Skrtel's ability to read the game is woeful (but any time you are relying on Skrtel and Johnson on the same play, and the new Lucas, to keep you out of trouble well...) And no, Skrtel moving doesn't leave anyone free at all.

Anyway, this is going nowhere. We got the 3 points and that's that. Manquillo was good. Not great, but good...definitely better than Johnson.

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Post by BeautifulGame on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 15:53

@Art Morte wrote:

Blocked 3 crosses, wow, what a performance  Rolling Eyes 

Johnson wasn't to blame for their goal or other dangerous attacks of theirs, did his defensive duties impeccably and provided a much better option going forward than Manquillo. Who, btw, got caught out of position a couple of times, but anyway, he had a fine debut, but Johnson was clearly the better player on the day.

In the first half alone our attack broke down 6 or 7 times soles due to johnson.Twice becoz he took pointless shots at goal which ended in z row.GJ was decent defensively yesterday but was woeful in attack yesterday.

Manquillo was much better yesterday in attack


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Post by Art Morte on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 17:03

@BeautifulGame wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:

Blocked 3 crosses, wow, what a performance  Rolling Eyes 

Johnson wasn't to blame for their goal or other dangerous attacks of theirs, did his defensive duties impeccably and provided a much better option going forward than Manquillo. Who, btw, got caught out of position a couple of times, but anyway, he had a fine debut, but Johnson was clearly the better player on the day.

In the first half alone our attack broke down 6 or 7 times soles due to johnson.Twice becoz he took pointless shots at goal which ended in z row.GJ was decent defensively yesterday but was woeful in attack yesterday.

Manquillo was much better yesterday in attack



lol, at least Johnson got into positions to take a shot. Or what, you want to dribble it into the goal when we're struggling to create chances anyway?

Johnson had a good game. We'll see with who Rodgers agrees with when we see which one will be a starter in the next games.
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Post by BeautifulGame on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 18:20

@Art Morte wrote:
@BeautifulGame wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:

Blocked 3 crosses, wow, what a performance  Rolling Eyes 

Johnson wasn't to blame for their goal or other dangerous attacks of theirs, did his defensive duties impeccably and provided a much better option going forward than Manquillo. Who, btw, got caught out of position a couple of times, but anyway, he had a fine debut, but Johnson was clearly the better player on the day.

In the first half alone our attack broke down  6 or 7 times soles due to johnson.Twice becoz he took pointless shots at goal which ended in z row.GJ was decent defensively yesterday but was woeful in attack yesterday.

Manquillo was much better yesterday in attack



lol, at least Johnson got into positions to take a shot. Or what, you want to dribble it into the goal when we're struggling to create chances anyway?

Johnson had a good game. We'll see with who Rodgers agrees with when we see which one will be a starter in the next games.


Actually the other 3 or 4 times he lost the ball in 1st half he did exactly that.Dribble aimlessly towards the Sampton defenders and lost the ball.   Razz 

And no just becoz u are a decent position dont mean taking wild shots that ends in z row.U pass to other players who were in better position so that they can probe and put S'amton defence under continued pressure.Johnson just relieved any pressure on their defence with those aimless punts.

Also remember another instance when BR was furious with  Johnson when  passed the ball towards Mig when he should have passed into the attackers in space .

As i earlier said he was good defensively but attacking wise let down massively.

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Post by Curtinho on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 19:58

By the end of the season we should have Manquillo and Moreno/Enrique for fullbacks starting and I am more than ok with that.

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Post by Don't call me James on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 20:09

Well hopefully the starting left back is Moreno for majority of the season. And Manquillo/Flanno at RB depending on which oppositions we play.

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Post by RedOranje on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 01:22

Brief statistical overview of the fullbacks:

Touches:
Manquillo - 109
Johnson - 78

Passes:
Manquillo - 70
Johnson -  51

Passing Accuracy:
Manquillo - 85.7%
Johnson - 86.3%

Tackles:
Manquillo - 6
Johnson - 0

Interceptions:
Manquillo - 4
Johnson - 1

Clearances:
Manquillo - 5
Johnson - 3

Shots Blocked:
Manquillo - 1
Johnson - 0

Fouls Won:
Manquillo - 3
Johnson - 0

Fouls Conceded:
Manquillo - 1
Johnson - 1

Duels Won:
Manquillo - 11
Johnson - 4

Duels Lost:
Manquillo - 5
Johnson - 6

Aerially Duels Won:
Manquillo - 2
Johnson - 3

Aerial Duels Lost:
Manquillo - 1
Johnson - 0

Recoveries:
Manquillo - 5
Johnson - 4

Crosses (Successful):
Manquillo - 2 (0)
Johnson - 4 (0)

Shots (On Target):
Manquillo - 0 (0)
Johnson - 2 (0)

Dispossessed:
Manquillo - 1
Johnson - 1

Sources:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/fixtures.html#s2014-m755306
http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/829516/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2014-2015-Liverpool-Southampton

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