Torres Appreciation Thread

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Guest on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:33 pm

@Dante wrote:Seeing Essien and Muntari trying to assist Torres will be such a parody ffs

I do hope what best we have in feeding goals stays as fit as possible throughout the season , Torres is going to be in dire need of players like Ses , Honda or Poli.. Definitely Montolivo when he comes back from injury .

At least if Torres can manage the poaching .. I would be happy with that. Pippo should reveal his secrets to him , maybe that was the plan all along Proud


To be fair if Torres could manage the poaching he'd still be at Chelsea.

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Dante on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:40 pm

Betty La Fea wrote:
@Dante wrote:Seeing Essien and Muntari trying to assist Torres will be such a parody ffs

I do hope what best we have in feeding goals stays as fit as possible throughout the season , Torres is going to be in dire need of players like Ses , Honda or Poli.. Definitely Montolivo when he comes back from injury .

At least if Torres can manage the poaching .. I would be happy with that. Pippo should reveal his secrets to him , maybe that was the plan all along Proud


To be fair if Torres could manage the poaching he'd still be at Chelsea.


pls dont ruin it , Pippo will teach him his secrets Proud

he will , you'll see Proud

..

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Eivindo on Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:05 pm

I love Torres more than Balotelli alrdy lol
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by farfan on Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:51 pm

Betty La Fea wrote:I'm shocked Arsenal haven't snagged Remy already to be honest. French striker, quick, nearing prime…would be a good move by Arsene.


i don't get either .
arsenal can sign him for less than 10 million, and with giroud injured for 4 months he'll have plenty of time to prove himself .

seems like wenger doesn't rate him at all.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by pUsHa on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:55 pm

Stop fooling yourself Dante, Torres is just a replacement for Robinho's ridicoulous misses Proud
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Arquitescu on Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:07 am

Now I know why Gil even in his satirical support of Torres continued to defend him even during his darkest days in Chelsea. When you are a fan and support a man no matter what club, its extremely difficult to see such a downfall as Nando faced.

As for me, Torres infuriated me with his brilliant timing and decision to move to Chelsea, as it was more a personal bitterness that encapsulated my disdain towards him, as eventually like Mascherano post-Liverpool, my hate evaporated, soon to be just an indifference to their success, remembering their Liverpool tenures as a completely different entity.

Another side broke my heart seeing Torres' meteoric decline despite my main front finding laughter in his failure; as I have mentioned before I would support Fernando again if he moved to any other club outside the Premiership and Atletico Madrid.


Now, just as Balotelli moves to my Liverpool, Fernando Torres replaces him to go to my Milan. On paper it is a disgusting move seeing a 24 year old with a sky high ceiling being traded for a 30 year old who has become a butt of most jokes.

Yet, this move was exciting for me personally because I had always wanted to see Torres move to Milan and for over two years straight I have bet on Torres regaining his brilliance if he moves outside Chelsea.

Yet seeing Balotelli and the extreme headache he was for an enigmatic Torres while absurd on paper, holds a personal excitement for me to which does not have me lament Balo's loss, and actually applaud Torres' arrival. Hypocritical it may be but Torres' arrival to Milan has immediately regained the love I held for him and not just because he joined one of two of my clubs, yet the anticipation of what he can produce here.

You have Pippo Inzaghi who single-handedly took all excuses away from goal-draught strikers who struggled to find pockets of space, our manager is bound to gift a struggling Fernando his secrets and the passion that drove Pippo to score his clutch goals and the amount.

You have a club in decline to which STILL holds the 'Milan Effect' and the pedigree in which old legends past their best can reignite the final embers in their sinewy legs as this is why I feel despite the lack of direction in Milan; this Fernando Torres will find a sliver if not most of his best that is hidden within his body. Pippo in all of our club blunders has united a dressing room clearly just to focus on what matters as Fernando is bound to succeed in the pacy counter-system set up for Torres. A midfield of Bonaventura/Poli, Montolivo, de Jong to hold the crux, Honda, Menez, and El Shaarawy who just makes any player looks great is bound to afford space for Torres, unlike Balotelli who in all his ability would only crowd the box without understanding the consequence of his lack of movement.

So in essence, I say Fernando will succeed. We will see a player who will be a breath of fresh air up front, eliminating the static movement up front with his intelligence and multi-dimensional ability. Pippo aside I see Torres actually evolving his game into a more creative and substantial role deeper to which will allow him more freedom to influence the game.

Good news is, he has broken multiple fitness records for a known-to-be Milanello medical test which gives us hope on his physical condition.

I welcome Fernando into Milan, and back into my heart. Criticize this all you want, yet its fantastic to regain support in this fashion.

He will be a success for us.

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Curtinho on Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:26 pm

Yes, Torres will be a success. Looking forward to my Milan kit. Smile

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by LeSwagg James on Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:04 pm

Somebody probably banged his wife a while back.. I mean how can you decline that badly without any potential career threatening injury?

It's all mental, and that's the only logical explanation I can come up with that could destroy a man..

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by The Franchise on Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:03 pm

He has had multiple injuries to his hamstring, slowing him down gradually. Then he had knee surgery.

Just look at him sprinting now, he clearly isnt as explosive.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by LeSwagg James on Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:28 am

@The Franchise wrote:He has had multiple injuries to his hamstring, slowing him down gradually. Then he had knee surgery.

Just look at him sprinting now, he clearly isnt as explosive.


Ronaldo tore his ACL twice and was still fast as shit when he came back (before he got fat).. I don't think Torres had anything as severe as that

I know every player reacts differently to injuries, but this guy went from best striker in the world to bonafide scrub in like a few weeks

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by The Franchise on Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:35 am

Ronaldo was a freak of nature in all ways, but even he lost some of his speed. Yes he came back in shape and was still very fast, but that whole period of him recovering from injury and staying in shape didnt last long enough to really determine anything.

Still, that kind of comparison never works because as you said everyone reacts differently.

Plus Torres had hamstring injuries, which are the worst when it comes to flat out speed. Look at Michael Owen who had the same problem.

Ronaldo never had hamstring problems, it was as you know his knee.

Its never an exact science anyway. Robben had a series of hamstring injuries and you would expect it to have cost him his speed, but he looks as fast as ever.

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Arquitescu on Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:34 am

Quite frankly it has nothing to do with his pace. I never understood even the talk of his pace considering it came in short bursts and took relatively long to accelerate into a speed that can affect others, a substantial amount of his goals had little to do with utilizing his pace say like, Gareth Bale.

In fact, he was quite good a month before the Chelsea move, hence the furor on his move in full spectrum bafflement. The depth of the decision, price and backlash he recieved caused a mental downfall to which an already mentally volatile Torres was prone to. His best was through his finishing, skill, ability to weave within the box and use all corners of his feet as pace was a byproduct of his conviction on where and when to move, timing of the run.

Which is why I hoped he moved on from Chelsea, a mental block incurred from the incremental weight gained by all forces of pressure applied on him through his own failures and circumstantial.

Hence why I am in belief of a good spell at Milan.

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by The Franchise on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:06 am

Well I dont agree, I can see right in front of me he doesnt have the same explosiveness he had. He even talked about it himself in regards to his hamstrings. Cant be asked to go search for it but its there somewhere.

His confidence is shattered, but it's because he knows he is no longer what he used to be on a physical level.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Red Alert on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:08 am

His farewell letter to Chelsea has got to be the worst PR stints I've ever seen in my life. rofl

Glad he joined Milan, I can jump back on the bandwagon. He won't be as good as he was at Liverpool, but he can definitely help Milan out as I'm expecting him to explode and show his critics wrong. Apart from Mata's stint, he just didn't fit into that Chelsea side at all.

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Red Alert on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:12 am

@The Franchise wrote:Well I dont agree, I can see right in front of me he doesnt have the same explosiveness he had. He even talked about it himself in regards to his hamstrings. Cant be asked to go search for it but its there somewhere.

His confidence is shattered, but it's because he knows he is no longer what he used to be on a physical level.


I don't know. I think he did okay with Chelsea in the whole build up play and adapting to not playing off the last defender via his pace. He just lacked the final ball, which comes down to confidence tbh. His positioning is still okay, he still "has it" in him imo. I think a move away from his past environment will do him the world of good.

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Forza on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:17 am

I agree with Arq & Red Alert.

Pace has never been Torres' main weapon and he hasn't been ridiculed for being slow. However, he has been mocked for his poor finishing, particularly at close range. That is a confidence issue. It's not like Torres is having problems getting into dangerous places to be able to take those chances. He's just messing up when it comes time to aim and pull the trigger.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by The Franchise on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:27 am

@Red Alert wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:Well I dont agree, I can see right in front of me he doesnt have the same explosiveness he had. He even talked about it himself in regards to his hamstrings. Cant be asked to go search for it but its there somewhere.

His confidence is shattered, but it's because he knows he is no longer what he used to be on a physical level.


I don't know. I think he did okay with Chelsea in the whole build up play and adapting to not playing off the last defender via his pace. He just lacked the final ball, which comes down to confidence tbh. His positioning is still okay, he still "has it" in him imo. I think a move away from his past environment will do him the world of good.


Well for me his first touch is still inconsistent, which was said about him nearly a decade ago at Atletico. Sometimes he is capable of great pieces of control, other times he miscontrolled routine passes.

His movement is terrible now, he doesnt seem like he enjoys running into space any more (I wonder why..) and that in turn means he has to receive the ball to his feet more and his touch is as I said.

I dont buy the confidence thing. Obviously his confidence is WAY down, there is no arguing that. But why did it go in the first place and why has it been 4-5 years now? You think its simply because Chelsea? He was starting to get this way at the end of his Pool career, I saw it then and I saw it continue when he joined Chelsea. He came back from his last injury at Pool and I saw the difference right away.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by The Franchise on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:30 am

@Forza wrote:I agree with Arq & Red Alert.

Pace has never been Torres' main weapon and he hasn't been ridiculed for being slow. However, he has been mocked for his poor finishing, particularly at close range. That is a confidence issue. It's not like Torres is having problems getting into dangerous places to be able to take those chances. He's just messing up when it comes time to aim and pull the trigger.


Pace was Torres main weapon, so I dont agree on that first.

And no, he wasnt ridiculed for being slow. First because he so rarely runs behind the defence anymore and second because he isnt slow...he is just slower than he used to be.

Do you think the only difference with Torres today and Torres of Liverpool is he misses glaring chances now?

Because to me, that isnt the only difference.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by fatman123 on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:39 am

@The Franchise wrote:Pace was Torres main weapon, so I dont agree on that first.

And no, he wasnt ridiculed for being slow. First because he so rarely runs behind the defence anymore and second because he isnt slow...he is just slower than he used to be.

Do you think the only difference with Torres today and Torres of Liverpool is he misses glaring chances now?

Because to me, that isnt the only difference.


Listen to him kids, he's right more often then not on this type of stuff.

Although  i will say that with so many sides sitting back and putting 10 men behind the ball v Chelsea, Torres doesnt really get the opportunity to run off the CB into space nearly as much as he once did. Also, over the last few seasons Chelsea have typically had a very slow build up in attack (due to many reasons) which again has limited the opportunities for Torres to run past defenders

And like Franchise said, Torres isnt slow, hes slowER, look at that goal v barca, he chews that 50m up like its nothing

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Abramovich on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:42 am

I disagree with those who say pace wasn't a main weapon for Torres, it clearly was and you can see his speed decline over the years.
After seeing him run live in both a Liverpool and a Chelsea shirt you can notice it quite a fair bit. His return back from injury when Woy was in charge you could see the difference, but everyone thought it was due to the shit manager..,..Although that is only 1 of the downfalls for Torres at Chelsea.

This is a great read

http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2014/9/3/6096975/the-fernando-torres-odyssey-feature

I attribute many factors and here are some off the top of my head:
  • Confidence.

    Sturridge (yes I believe if he squared 15 of those chances he could have Torres may have been a more confident player again).
    Bad technical skills (his first touch really lacking sometimes or he miscontrols dribbles.

    Style / system not quite sure he fit in with us, those many goals you can see of Torres latching onto a Gerrard long through ball never really happened here.

    Amateur movement - if you compare his movement in the box to lets say Hernandez it's clear as day his movement is lacking.


I honestly have no ill feeling towards him, he did occasionally work really hard for us and he did try. He was unlucky with some things which really broke his confidence (Swansea red card after hot streak, THAT miss etc).
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Red Alert on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:43 am

@The Franchise wrote:

Well for me his first touch is still inconsistent, which was said about him nearly a decade ago at Atletico. Sometimes he is capable of great pieces of control, other times he miscontrolled routine passes.

His movement is terrible now, he doesnt seem like he enjoys running into space any more (I wonder why..) and that in turn means he has to receive the ball to his feet more and his touch is as I said.

I dont buy the confidence thing. Obviously his confidence is WAY down, there is no arguing that. But why did it go in the first place and why has it been 4-5 years now? You think its simply because Chelsea? He was starting to get this way at the end of his Pool career, I saw it then and I saw it continue when he joined Chelsea. He came back from his last injury at Pool and I saw the difference right away.


Well even when he was in his prime his first touch was still considered "inconsistent" to be fair.

His movement is fine. His time under Benitez at Chelsea showed that. He played in a counter-attacking football and surprise surprise he did well and guided Chelsea to a European trophy. He only played 2-3 games under Dalglish before moving to Chelsea, and iirc he scored 2-3 goals too. Not going to mention his time playing under the Owl, considering he was pretty much chasing long balls from the back half* and expected to deliver. (Iirc, he was rushed back from that hamstring in the World Cup final too as Hodgson had a "slow start" to the season.)

*that's when his whole body attitude showed to all Liverpool fans that his head wasn't at the club

His injury DID play apart yes, I'm not disputing that at all. But his biggest down fall comes down to confidence to me. Like I said, he's adapted to different ways to not use his pace as his main asset anymore.

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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Forza on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:44 am

I don't dispute that there are other differences between then and now. Of course a player is going to change over the years. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. But let's not avoid the core of the issue: what is preventing Torres from scoring goals? Whilst there are a plethora of potentially correct answers, it's undeniable that confidence is far and away the number one on that list. At Milan, what will be asked of him is that he works hard; tracks back; and when he gets a chance served to him on a silver platter, that he buries it into the back of the net with no hesitation.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by The Franchise on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:52 am

@Forza wrote:I don't dispute that there are other differences between then and now. Of course a player is going to change over the years. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. But let's not avoid the core of the issue: what is preventing Torres from scoring goals? Whilst there are a plethora of potentially correct answers, it's undeniable that confidence is far and away the number one on that list. At Milan, what will be asked of him is that he works hard; tracks back; and when he gets a chance served to him on a silver platter, that he buries it into the back of the net with no hesitation.


Yes, that stops him scoring goals. But what stops him being the Torres of old?

He used to score goals, but he also used to be a threat in behind the defence which gave midfielders more space because the CB's dropped back 5m every single time it looked like Torres may run behind. Them dropping back opened up space in between the lines for midfielder's to work in. Now people arent so afraid of Torres running behind and he doesnt offer movement so they can pass it into his feet. And even when they do get it to his feet his inconsistent touch lets him down.

Basically what I am saying is, his declining speed has changed him into playing a different style of play which he doesnt play very well because it relies on things he isnt quite as good at.

Thats all seperate from his missing of chances, which you can only put down to confidence at this point. And I dont think his confidence is magically gone just "because", I think its gone because he no longer feels great and that in the end is because he probably knows physically he isnt.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Forza on Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:36 am

Whether Torres is reborn as "Liverpool Torres" or not is on the periphery of relevance. What is much more important from my perspective is that Torres can still be an effective player. Significantly, Torres' reduced pace will not render him useless as a striker at Milan. There are many quick players in the team who can compensate for that and Serie A is typically not as fast-paced as the EPL. What will make Torres a success or failure at Milan is his finishing ability. I can't speculate as to why his confidence is gone because I don't know. However, what we all understand is that once you miss one easy chance followed by another, it's easy to lose the self-belief that all strikers need in order to get on with business as usual.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by The Franchise on Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:10 am

But the question wasnt "is he going to be good for Milan", it was "why has he declined so badly". Thats what Leswagg posted and what I replied to.
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Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

Post by Forza on Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:23 am

@The Franchise wrote:But the question wasnt "is he going to be good for Milan", it was "why has he declined so badly". Thats what Leswagg posted and what I replied to.

I think we're still talking about the same topic. My angle is the extent of this decline. Was pace so integral to Torres' game that he has now been stamped with a "damaged goods" label in indelible ink? In other words, is his decline irreversible? I think that perhaps the reason for his fall from grace may be his failure to justify his huge price tag at Chelsea. He moved to a rival club for an enormous transfer fee and crumbled under the weight of expectation. At Milan, he will be removed from that environment and maybe he will flourish again.
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