Scotland Independence Thread
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RedOranje
BeautifulGame
VivaStPauli
Jonathan28
Robespierre
DuringTheWar
VendettaRed07
McLewis
McAgger
iftikhar
Tomwin Lannister
Nishankly
Art Morte
DagenhamDave
ProXima
RealGunner
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
ProXima wrote:Scotland Independence means disconnect from criminal organization called European Union. I hope that will work out.
I will put 5 euros on Scotland immediately integrating further into the EU than England ever has, and another 5 euros on Scotland joining the Eurozone within 10 years.
VivaStPauli- Fan Favorite
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/cameron-clegg-miliband-emergency-visit-scotland
Screwing urselves up panic button lol
Screwing urselves up panic button lol
BeautifulGame- First Team
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Due purely to academic curiosity I'd like to see the vote pass and Scotland gain their independence. It would be quite intriguing to see how relations changed and how Scotland and the UK changed following such a move.
RedOranje- Admin
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Tomwin Lannister wrote:DuringTheWar wrote:McLewis wrote:Historically, Scotland have been fighting for independence for just under a millenia now. To achieve that after so much bloodshed over the centuries as well as to do it without said bloodshed would be a momentous occasion.
Did you mean to say; "51%" of Scotland have been fighting for independence for a millennia
Thought it was pretty obvious that a vast, vast majority of Scotland wanted independence a long time ago
Not just the current alleged 51% on the 2014 polls
I was simply highlighting the irony. I like pointing out irony.
DuringTheWar- First Team
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
DuringTheWar wrote:Tomwin Lannister wrote:DuringTheWar wrote:McLewis wrote:Historically, Scotland have been fighting for independence for just under a millenia now. To achieve that after so much bloodshed over the centuries as well as to do it without said bloodshed would be a momentous occasion.
Did you mean to say; "51%" of Scotland have been fighting for independence for a millennia
Thought it was pretty obvious that a vast, vast majority of Scotland wanted independence a long time ago
Not just the current alleged 51% on the 2014 polls
I was simply highlighting the irony. I like pointing out irony.
RedOranje- Admin
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
RedOranje wrote:DuringTheWar wrote:Tomwin Lannister wrote:
Thought it was pretty obvious that a vast, vast majority of Scotland wanted independence a long time ago
Not just the current alleged 51% on the 2014 polls
I was simply highlighting the irony. I like pointing out irony.
I don't think I mean what you think I mean. Or, you just don't know what it means.
DuringTheWar- First Team
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
There's nothing ironic about what he posted. It is both factually and thematically accurate.
RedOranje- Admin
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
I was referring to the situation he described rather than his own comments being ironic. If you consider the history of Scotland, which he did, then consider the day they get independence, its by a predicted vote landslide of 1%, that's ironic right.
DuringTheWar- First Team
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
DuringTheWar wrote:I was referring to the situation he described rather than his own comments being ironic. If you consider the history of Scotland, which he did, then consider the day they get independence, its by a predicted vote landslide of 1%, that's ironic right.
Ah, I misinterpreted your comment. My mistake.
RedOranje- Admin
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
This referendum will decree not only the future of Scotland, but also that of Labour Party anyway imo.
The Scotland is a crucial stronghold of Labour Party . Always an impressive contribution of votes.
if UK loses the Scotland, the Labour Party risks seriously to die.
The Scotland is a crucial stronghold of Labour Party . Always an impressive contribution of votes.
if UK loses the Scotland, the Labour Party risks seriously to die.
Robespierre- World Class Contributor
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
It seems to me that if Scotland wanted out it shouldn't really be down to a 1% margin, things this important need a super majority (3/5 at least imo).
Anyways if they go through, and want to join the EU, they will have to give up the pound for the euro. Not a smart move imo.
Anyways if they go through, and want to join the EU, they will have to give up the pound for the euro. Not a smart move imo.
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
All new members of the EU are required to join the eurozone so it's really just one bet.VivaStPauli wrote:ProXima wrote:Scotland Independence means disconnect from criminal organization called European Union. I hope that will work out.
I will put 5 euros on Scotland immediately integrating further into the EU than England ever has, and another 5 euros on Scotland joining the Eurozone within 10 years.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/09/10/1963991/scotland-and-sterling-whose-currency-is-it-anyway/ (loginwall, but can be accessed through google)
BarrileteCosmico- Admin
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Salmond is wasting everyones time with fantasy dreams and empty promises that have all been debunked by experts. Come Thursday I am sure Scotland will still be in the UK
halamadrid2- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
VivaStPauli wrote:
I will put 5 euros on Scotland immediately integrating further into the EU than England ever has, and another 5 euros on Scotland joining the Eurozone within 10 years.
Barroso told that reconnect independent Scotland to UE will be "extremely difficult". But who know what they really think, most politicians from EU commission are ordinary liars, thieves, incompetent morons etc. (Anyway, they fit to organisation perfectly).
ProXima- Prospect
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Had some rare motivational moment so did some reading.
Scottish people are being lied heavily about their economical situation by Alex Salmond. He is either sweeping it all away or he is just not letting people hear the truth. I really think that patriotism is getting over people's rational judgement. I am not bothered if Scotland gets independence. But I am bothered about my Scottish friends being lied to and eventually getting deceived once the independence takes place.
Salmond could have increased the spending power of NHS for the last 3 years. Didn't do it. He is one of the biggest reason NHS is in this state atm. NHS is done if Scotland is independent and Scottish people themselves weren't even aware of this. NHS is as much part of Scotland as it is to England. Salmon hilariously tried to call it nonsense but IFS has already refuted it.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmonds-nhs-claims-have-been-shredded-ifs
On the other hand, £27billion left the Scottish Financial System last week and Salmond once again sweeped that under the rug. Scotland will have a huge debt and deficit at the time of separation which would result in years of recession and unemploment. The YES movement have failed to address that to the Scottish people.
A good read about another of Salmond's policy which is dubious at best.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/economics-blog/2014/sep/14/independent-scotland-economic-global-ireland-new-zealand-struggles
Research by spread betting company Capital Spreads found that 65% of investors expect Scotland’s economy to be weaker five years after independence, falling to 63% after 10 years.
http://www.scotsman.com/business/scottish-independence-will-weaken-economy-1-3541825
Scottish people are being lied heavily about their economical situation by Alex Salmond. He is either sweeping it all away or he is just not letting people hear the truth. I really think that patriotism is getting over people's rational judgement. I am not bothered if Scotland gets independence. But I am bothered about my Scottish friends being lied to and eventually getting deceived once the independence takes place.
Salmond could have increased the spending power of NHS for the last 3 years. Didn't do it. He is one of the biggest reason NHS is in this state atm. NHS is done if Scotland is independent and Scottish people themselves weren't even aware of this. NHS is as much part of Scotland as it is to England. Salmon hilariously tried to call it nonsense but IFS has already refuted it.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmonds-nhs-claims-have-been-shredded-ifs
On the other hand, £27billion left the Scottish Financial System last week and Salmond once again sweeped that under the rug. Scotland will have a huge debt and deficit at the time of separation which would result in years of recession and unemploment. The YES movement have failed to address that to the Scottish people.
A good read about another of Salmond's policy which is dubious at best.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/economics-blog/2014/sep/14/independent-scotland-economic-global-ireland-new-zealand-struggles
Research by spread betting company Capital Spreads found that 65% of investors expect Scotland’s economy to be weaker five years after independence, falling to 63% after 10 years.
http://www.scotsman.com/business/scottish-independence-will-weaken-economy-1-3541825
RealGunner- Admin
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
The No campaign seems to be almost entirely fear-based instead of trying to remind Scots of the good reasons to stay together.
Forza- Fan Favorite
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Only the politicians want Scotland to stay and that's because most of the big two's (Labour and Tories) MPs are Scottish. The rest are indifferent because be it Scotland are in the UK or not they will still pay taxes through their noses and get nothing in return.
Scotland blame their unemployment crisis on Westminister when they get more money the rest of the uk and contributing the least. Most of the big companies in Scotland such as RBS want to relocate to England if Scotland become independent. Says it all about Salmonds fantasy dreams tbh
Most of the experts that have called Salmond out for his lies aren't even English. The scots seem to think there is bias from the media and bbc against them but all they are doing is call the facts just because all the facts indicate Scotland will be worse off on its own does not mean they are biased
Salmond has no plans whatsoever post-independence. He thinks they will be able to keep the pound, join EU immediately and thinks they have infinity reserves of oil bless his soul. He will drag them into recession Spain style but in alot less time
Scotland blame their unemployment crisis on Westminister when they get more money the rest of the uk and contributing the least. Most of the big companies in Scotland such as RBS want to relocate to England if Scotland become independent. Says it all about Salmonds fantasy dreams tbh
Most of the experts that have called Salmond out for his lies aren't even English. The scots seem to think there is bias from the media and bbc against them but all they are doing is call the facts just because all the facts indicate Scotland will be worse off on its own does not mean they are biased
Salmond has no plans whatsoever post-independence. He thinks they will be able to keep the pound, join EU immediately and thinks they have infinity reserves of oil bless his soul. He will drag them into recession Spain style but in alot less time
halamadrid2- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Scotland are in the top 15 wealthiest countries in the World. I fail to see how Scotland is going to collapse all of a sudden. If it was all bad news for Scotland I doubt David Cameron would be out begging the people to 'not leave'
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Scotland have included the north sea oil in that "estimate" which makes up most of the GDP. Fact is the oil is UKs and not Scottish so if they were to become independent the North sea oil won't be theirs.
This isn't even mentioning the fact that they won't be able to use the pound and hence will have to start from scratch. Scotland have a very small population compared to England so large share of the cash they get has been able to cover for all their needs if they become independent they will have to pay their own taxes, there won't be any of the free services they have now and with the unemployment crisis god knows who's going to pay their taxes
Also didn't UK bail Scotland out after they got themselves in mountain debt??
UK will be fine with or without Scotland and that's a fact.
This isn't even mentioning the fact that they won't be able to use the pound and hence will have to start from scratch. Scotland have a very small population compared to England so large share of the cash they get has been able to cover for all their needs if they become independent they will have to pay their own taxes, there won't be any of the free services they have now and with the unemployment crisis god knows who's going to pay their taxes
Also didn't UK bail Scotland out after they got themselves in mountain debt??
UK will be fine with or without Scotland and that's a fact.
halamadrid2- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
The North Sea oil will still be flowing long after we're gone, unless you believe the other side who have been telling people that it's going to run out at any minute for the last 40 years
Nobody said the UK would be in major trouble without Scotland. But the idea that Scotland are doomed because they want independence is ridiculous.
Nobody said the UK would be in major trouble without Scotland. But the idea that Scotland are doomed because they want independence is ridiculous.
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Forza wrote:The No campaign seems to be almost entirely fear-based instead of trying to remind Scots of the good reasons to stay together.
Agreed.
Tomwin Lannister wrote:Scotland are in the top 15 wealthiest countries in the World. I fail to see how Scotland is going to collapse all of a sudden. If it was all bad news for Scotland I doubt David Cameron would be out begging the people to 'not leave'
Misleading stat.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26614122
halamadrid2 wrote:Scotland have included the north sea oil in that "estimate" which makes up most of the GDP. Fact is the oil is UKs and not Scottish so if they were to become independent the North sea oil won't be theirs.
This isn't even mentioning the fact that they won't be able to use the pound and hence will have to start from scratch. Scotland have a very small population compared to England so large share of the cash they get has been able to cover for all their needs if they become independent they will have to pay their own taxes, there won't be any of the free services they have now and with the unemployment crisis god knows who's going to pay their taxes
Also didn't UK bail Scotland out after they got themselves in mountain debt??
UK will be fine with or without Scotland and that's a fact.
The real truth about the North Sea Oil.
http://www.offshore-publication.com/index.php/projects/1518-north-sea-oil-giants-speak-out-against-scottish-independence
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/09/14/it-would-be-impossible-for-an-independent-scotland-to-establish-a-sovereign-oil-fund/
There is no denying that UK is stronger with Scotland in it, however there is also no denying that Scotland benefits far far far more with being part of the UK than the other way around. UK will recover in matter of years with any financial loss from Scotland being independent. But the NO campaign needs to realise that this referendum is forever. There is no going back. We all rather live together than becoming foreigners to each other.
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Hyperbolic at the end there, RG. In the EU no nation is really that "foreign" from another and the cultural ties that bind together the peoples of the British Isles will endure long beyond this vote, regardless of results (just as the animosities and issues that drive it and other independence movements remained long after the initial subjugation/combination of the peoples happened). The fact of the matter is, Scotland has everything it needs to succeed as an independent nation should it so desire, and while it may benefit both parties for Scotland to remain a part of the UK you should not and indeed CANNOT disregard the cultural and historical motivations at play.
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
Scottish Referendum Poll Gives 'No' Camp Win By 54% To 46%
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/18/scottish-referendum-poll-gives-no-win-by-54-to-46_n_5845930.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/18/scottish-referendum-poll-gives-no-win-by-54-to-46_n_5845930.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
I think it's good that Scotland voted 'no' - well, some 55% of Scotland did.
The Yes campaign's supporters seemed to be too much inspired by "independent identity" and patriotic feelings, but I thought that was unnecessary and misguided because Scotland already has as strong an identity as any nation on Earth. I also don't believe becoming totally independent would have made the grass greener in Scotland - from an economic point of view - so in the end it seemed to me that there were very few actually good reasons for Scotland to leave the UK.
The Yes campaign's supporters seemed to be too much inspired by "independent identity" and patriotic feelings, but I thought that was unnecessary and misguided because Scotland already has as strong an identity as any nation on Earth. I also don't believe becoming totally independent would have made the grass greener in Scotland - from an economic point of view - so in the end it seemed to me that there were very few actually good reasons for Scotland to leave the UK.
Art Morte- Forum legendest
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
I think the yes vote was always more about many Scots being dirt poor (apparently - I've never been there) than it was about a search for independent identity. Let's not pretend that the Scots had no reason to break away in the first place - you don't get all the way to a referendum without some strong basis for it occurring.
The question now will be how politicians can resolve the problems that the Scottish people continue to have there. If the situation is not remedied, there's nothing stopping another vote being held in say 7 years time.
The question now will be how politicians can resolve the problems that the Scottish people continue to have there. If the situation is not remedied, there's nothing stopping another vote being held in say 7 years time.
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Re: Scotland Independence Thread
The Scots wanted out because they felt they had "no say" in UK policies when in fact a good number of the MPs in Westminister are actually Scottish. They have their own assembly where they discuss "in-country" problems something England for ex do not have. Their government get a significant cut of money they can spend on anything but instead of spending it on helping young get into work, they spend it on a number of freebies like free prescriptions, free pension et al. People who live in England don't get that instead the money is spent on jobs, apprenticeships for those who don't like education and other pointless stuff like highspeed railway which nobody bar the politicians actually want
Salmond and his SNP cronies have tried to brainwash their people by claiming their hands are tied and Scotland will be better off making their own policies when that's an outright lie because if I am not mistaken Scottish MPs represent nearly HALF of the British parliament. Those are the ones choosing policies for Wales, NI, England and Scotland themselves. When there was a vote on tuition fees for people like me in ENGLAND these were the ones who voted and potentially swayed the yes vote. Funny thing is there is no tution fee in Scotland
If anyone has been hard done by it's the English imo who have no say in anything. It's funny how a country with 5 million in population have more say than a country with over 55 million.
SNP are like spoilt kids wanting more and more. I knew the Scots were too smart than to listen to Salmond and his lies
Salmond and his SNP cronies have tried to brainwash their people by claiming their hands are tied and Scotland will be better off making their own policies when that's an outright lie because if I am not mistaken Scottish MPs represent nearly HALF of the British parliament. Those are the ones choosing policies for Wales, NI, England and Scotland themselves. When there was a vote on tuition fees for people like me in ENGLAND these were the ones who voted and potentially swayed the yes vote. Funny thing is there is no tution fee in Scotland
If anyone has been hard done by it's the English imo who have no say in anything. It's funny how a country with 5 million in population have more say than a country with over 55 million.
SNP are like spoilt kids wanting more and more. I knew the Scots were too smart than to listen to Salmond and his lies
Last edited by halamadrid2 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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