Re: Borussia Dortmund 2 - 0 Arsenal: What a mess

by RealGunner Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:10 pm

dat self torture

by Jay29 Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:14 pm

Call it intellectual curiosity.

I've watched the first three minutes so far and Arsenal don't get out of their half once. Dortmund were all over us. It wasn't until Koscielny dribbled out and just played it over the top for Welbeck that we finally got into their half. Kept the ball for about five seconds after that before losing it. Laughing

by DeletedUser#1 Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:18 pm

GJ...where did you get your avatar ??

I want one for 4-4-2 diamond...I'm having the exact same issues with manager changing a winning and proven formation :facepalm:

by Jay29 Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:25 pm

Just google 442 diamond and take your pick.

by Shed Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:31 pm

Natalie Portman wrote:GJ...where did you get your avatar ??

I want one for 4-4-2 diamond...I'm having the exact same issues with manager changing a winning and proven formation

Spoiler:

Borussia Dortmund 2 - 0 Arsenal: What a mess - Page 2 DIAMOND_MIDFIELD1

by 6unner Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:21 pm

Raptorgunner wrote:
EL Patron wrote:
Eman wrote:I won't comment on the game because I didn't see it. I will be working during champions league hours for the whole of the group stages, but I just hope I can actually see some champions league football come 2015 if we're going to play like that. I know, we'll still qualify, but ffs; the highlights alone have me cringing.

I hate to harp on the most obvious source for improvement, but since I can't quite comment on the game, man we really screwed up this summer. I'm not really convinced we're any better of a team than we were last year. Ospina vs. Fabianski, Debuchy vs. Sagna, Chambers vs. Vermaelen - none of these new signings are really better than the guy they replaced, or if they are, it's arguable, and it's also arguable that they could be worse. I'm willing to give him a chance, but before he signed here, I didn't rank Welbeck that much higher than Bendtner ffs.

We're basically the same team as before with Alexis Sanchez, with the same obvious weaknesses and frustrating lack of consistency so far this campaign, and more injuries than we can possibly handle. We needed to bring good players in for vital positions and we didn't do it, and now we have been mediocre at best since the start of the season. I haven't been completely happy with any of our performances.

We need to figure our shit out.

+1

biggest worry is that we haven't won since the palace game

And that Palace game was a fluke win.

We can blame any player we want in our team but manager is the one responsible for the players in our team and and responsible for who to play. We Have the quality, at least offensively, our BANK Manager is clueless on how to use and motivate that quality. We wont win shit with redundant tactics. Put any decent manager in charge of this Arsenal squad would cause havoc for any team, home or away.

If Klopp was in charge of this Arsenal team and Wenger in charge of Dortmund what you think the score line would have been?

I actually think that Klopp or just about any manager would want to replace most of this team. The team as a whole is unbalanced and lacking quality.

We have 3 teams worth of average of CM's, CAMs that are wasted on the wings, no prolific striker, 1 healthy winger, no DM/holding MID that will put the fear in anyone, average FBs. For some reason we seem to be more worried about a "British Core" than about getting the players in that can actually win anything. Then modifying our tactics to be able to use as many average players as possible.

by Jay29 Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:29 pm

Okay, so having watched parts of the game back, the conclusion I've reached is that Arsenal had no defensive plan based on their opposition, and stupidly kept doing the same things despite their being clear warning signs. Big shocker, I know.

Spoiler:

by LeBéninois Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:15 pm

I have not much to say. The previous analysis are spot on. If you guys can see it so clearly , I guess Wenger is also well aware too. The question is why are the same mistake made ? Imo Wenger doesn't have the ABILITY to make a defensive plan based on his opponent's strenghts. Last year the reason we had a great run in the league is because our defensive line were terrific. Sagna-Mert-Kos were very solid defensively allowing guys like Ramsey to roam forward.

by Twoism Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:16 pm

Agree with Jay, for shorter version: we are clueless mess, such a way to start a freaking week

by djoe26 Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:20 pm

We needed a real DM but wenger didnt buy one then he changes his tactic refuses to change it while we are losing. He doesnt have a plan B.

by Twoism Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:24 pm

I'm pretty sure even if we have prime Makelele, we would still lose maybe not total 20 shots on goal but still lose. Problem is deeper than that and Wenger need to get a clue sooner than later

by Raptorgunner Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:20 pm

6unner wrote:
I actually think that Klopp or just about any manager would want to replace most of this team. The team as a whole is unbalanced and lacking quality.

We have 3 teams worth of average of CM's, CAMs that are wasted on the wings, no prolific striker, 1 healthy winger, no DM/holding MID that will put the fear in anyone, average FBs. For some reason we seem to be more worried about a "British Core" than about getting the players in that can actually win anything. Then modifying our tactics to be able to use as many average players as possible.

I agree, if we had a real manager who would motivate our players and they would go out there and fight for their manager. Wenger will never live up to the modern requirements of a football, at his age we will see games like this until 2017. Good managers get the best out of average players but Wenger manages to get the worst out of quality players. :facepalm:

by Raptorgunner Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:29 pm

Twoism wrote:I'm pretty sure even if we have prime Makelele, we would still lose maybe not total 20 shots on goal but still lose. Problem is deeper than that and Wenger need to get a clue sooner than later

The same manager who signed an injured player to replace another injured player. He’s clueless, taking us all for a ride.

@IanWright0

Arsene get Ozil in the middle, get the team to play around him! He's 42 mill worth of player for a reason! Do something with him PLEASE.

by sportsczy Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:15 am

The script for Arsenal is pretty much set for the season and has been for several years:
- 4th in EPL
- 2nd place in CL pool and crash out in first elimination round
- Chance at either FA or Carling Cup

That's pretty much it.

by Twoism Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:18 am

I wonder how the club can change that #akb

by Jay29 Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:34 am

We'll be lucky to get fourth playing this way.

Wenger has to make a decision on which one of Wilshere or Ramsey he wants to play because until one of them learns how to defend, or until the team starts pressing more, they cannot play together. Not in a 4-1-4-1, nor in a 4-2-3-1.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 am

GoonerJay29 wrote:We'll be lucky to get fourth playing this way.

Wenger has to make a decision on which one of Wilshere or Ramsey he wants to play because until one of them learns how to defend, or until the team starts pressing more, they cannot play together. Not in a 4-1-4-1, nor in a 4-2-3-1.

Yep. Could phrase that "Not in a 4-2-3-1, and so sure as hell not in a 4-1-4-1".
Because it really is kind of hilarious that Wenger chose to address the defensive midfield frailties last season's big away games showed, by not adding anyone but by doing away with one of the CDMs altogether Laughing

In effect he's doubling down on your weakness rofl

Really strange that he doesn't realize for the 4-1-4-1 to work you need to keep possession, press hard when losing it, and most of all keep spaces tight, all of which you're astonishingly bad at.

by DuringTheWar Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:16 am

GoonerJay29 wrote:We'll be lucky to get fourth playing this way.

Wenger has to make a decision on which one of Wilshere or Ramsey he wants to play because until one of them learns how to defend, or until the team starts pressing more, they cannot play together. Not in a 4-1-4-1, nor in a 4-2-3-1.

Ramsey is playing as a pseudo striker, I don't see what this has to do with his or wilsheres ability to play together. It's just weird.

by Jay29 Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:56 am

I'm of the view that in the current set-up, neither are providing enough midfield protection. That's why I think that unless they learn how to be more disciplined and improve their tactical understanding they're better off not playing with each other. The team would be better served with a more reserved central midfielder in there instead.

And we know there's no room for both of them in a 4-2-3-1 unless one becomes a holding player or an attacking midfielder which just isn't going to happen.

Really strange that he doesn't realize for the 4-1-4-1 to work you need to keep possession, press hard when losing it, and most of all keep spaces tight, all of which you're astonishingly bad at.

You may or not know that Wenger's way of playing is to basically leave all the decision making to the players. He doesn't study the opposition and doesn't work on specific gameplans with the team before games. So when the players don't perform as well as they should be, there's no structure there for them to fall back on and everything goes to hell quickly, which is why we repeatedly make the same mistakes in certain matches.

So instead of working with the team in training on keeping spaces tight and pressing, he's sending the team out there in a new shape that has different requirements and telling the players "you sort it out". The only reason he changed shape was so he could include an extra creative player. I doubt there were any other tactical considerations when he made the decision.

In this sense, he's astonishingly similar to Harry Redknapp.

by sportsczy Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:06 am

I can understand why Wenger is putting Ramsey in scoring positions tbh... Welbeck is not a good scorer. He's never scored 20 goals (all competitions) for a club in his career. He got 17 once.... but has been in the 10-15 goal range mostly. That's not enough. Arsenal need Sanchez and someone else to each pitch 15-20 goals to make the attack work.

by Raptorgunner Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:30 am

BILD'S RATING SYSTEM

1 - World class

2 - Strong performance

3 - Average

4 - Adequate

5 - Weak

6 - Didn't earn his money

Borussia Dortmund 2 - 0 Arsenal: What a mess - Page 2 1410943925430_wps_4_image001_png

Borussia Dortmund 2 - 0 Arsenal: What a mess - Page 2 1410943925430_wps_4_image001_png

by Raptorgunner Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:46 am

Mesut Ozil is not to blame for his poor performances at Arsenal, he needs to play through the centre

Place Ozil in the right environment, in the right position, with the right players around him, and there are still few better No 10s in the world

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11101885/Mesut-Ozil-is-not-to-blame-for-his-poor-performances-at-Arsenal-he-needs-to-play-through-the-centre.html
------------------------------
The media telling Wenger what to do is not good for Arsenal, now he will keep playing him on the wings till he has a good game and proves the world wrong. :facepalm:

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:48 am

For having such a small squad, Wenger is pretty damn exceptional at finding ways to keep key players away from their actual positions.

by Lex Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:55 am

Don't be surprised if you see Walcott trying to protect the back four when he returns. Or possibly operating as a makeshift RB

by sportsczy Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:50 am

Bild are shat though... that's not really a good reference.

by 6unner Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:53 am

sportsczy wrote:Bild are shat though... that's not really a good reference.

Against us yesterday it was.

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