Villarreal vs Real Madrid

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Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:09 pm

Although we won we played really poor. Our defending with this midfield is pathetic but we already know that right??

Bale needs to either play cf or hit the bench, tired of his crap performances
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:32 pm

Illarra is a must. Kroos isn't a DM

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by shadexticos on Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:34 pm

Honestly, d reason I came online today was to talk about Bale.
The coach isn't helping. If he isn't benched, he would think he has been playing well. He has scored goals because he received good passes asides that, he has been our worst player this season alongside average james.

We tot we wud get something better than what he offered last season
when he wasn't fit but now he is fit and worse dan last season.
Ancelotti needs to fix it and it can only be fixed by benching him.
He dint even av one shot off target, talk less of on target.

Ancelotti had better bench him cos he is only getting worse by the day.
He has accepted that he can't find a way through or connect with his players and he just plays lackadaisically now.
Can't stand him.

Btw
We played a good game today. Its villareal, we have always had problems with them right from 2008 or so, since the day of pellegrini.
We suffered there last season and if not for diego Lopez's heroics, we wud av been embarrased.
Despite the loss of pellegrini, they still maintained their philosophy as a dynamic and quick passing team.
0-2 away to villareal, trust me, dats a good result

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by LeSwagg James on Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:47 am

shadexticos wrote:We tot we wud get something better than what he offered last season when he wasn't fit but now he is fit and worse dan last season.

Laughing

I wouldn't mind seeing him on the bench next game tbh


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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:30 am

bale's inconsistent, i'm not sure how riding the bench will help him though. we seem to have this idea that if a player goes through a slump they should ride the bench. if a player is playing pathetic football and causing the team to either fail or slouch at a constant rate, then they should ride the bench....if a player is just inconsistent and playing like a headless chicken, that's where the tactics and man management of a coach should come into play....glad we won, and that modric scored, people were about making him the next scapegoat
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by Cyborg on Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:07 am

agreed @ titosantill. the tactics are the reason why.

bale is playing as a right centre midfielder.

on the other hand isco has been playing really well of the bench. he is making a good case to be in the starting line up.

this team at the moment versus barca will be interesting. barca hold the ball. we dont have anyone in midfield to pressure and tackle. plus they wont be missing chances in front of goal.


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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by shadexticos on Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:28 am

@titosantill
When a player warms the bench, he feels he has done poorly and puts in more effort to adjust to them system: isco, illaramendi, casillas, higuain and benzema in their prolific season with mou.
He is only lucky jese is not fit.
He doesn't have competition for his spot and hez gettin to comfortable with just being a starter in the great real madrid team.


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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by shadexticos on Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:48 am

@Cybord

I have watched Luis' barca and they are nothing as special as their stats.The only barca that was worth fearing is Guardiola's Barca.

My deductions:
1 they comfortably win the small to middle-table teams Just like the Basels, deportivos and Elches we beat too.
2 They struggle against teams that park the bus or teams that don't respect the name and attack.
Granada giften them the 6th and first goal which set the tempo for the rest of the game and besides, granada's defensive system was horrible
3 Their passes are not as accurate and their build up is slower which means they lose the ball easily and can't carve out an opening in a tight game as shown in their match against malaga where they had no shot on target.

4 They are still susceptible to the same counter-attack and we can even match them without recourse to counter-attack.

But they have some qualities we should be worried about:
1 Messi has taken a more secondary role of assisting and he almost always finds his target.
2 Messi and neymar are combining better
3 Neymar has finally found his feet
4 They have a midfielder who can score in Rakitic
5 They have tall defenders now.

We have some qualities to get them worried.
1 Pepe is injured and Varane is starting: varane is good with defending when the ball is played on the ground like barca, as opposed to aerial threats.
2 we have 3 midfielders who ensure we keep possession
3 james: The positive: as he doesn't go for the risky like di maria, he therefore helps ensure we keep the ball longer enuf till we find an opening.
4 BBC

And the qualties to get us worried
1 James: The negative: he doesn't have the penetrative skills of di maria to help find an opening in a tight game.
2 Bale: he is lost
3 coentrao: the prefered choice for big games is injured and there is a 50pct chance he wud be injured then or wud
4 most worrying of them all, our entire defensive system, that's why it wud be safer to player a 4-4-2 defensive game with them for now till we find our perfect balance.


The main problem we always had with them was messi and their accurate passes so all we have to fear now is messi and maybe neymar, but we need not worry about them outclassing us, except we choose to counter.

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:53 am

We have too many underperforming players right now. And Modric scoring does NOT excuse his poor performances, thought he played better after the goal but defensively we let Villarreal cut through us with ease, if they could finish they would easily have won today. We didn't really create any clear cut chances beyond our two goals. That Marcelo side is begging to be torn to shreds by a better side. I don't understand why Carlo plays a line up he most possibly won't use against Barca only to experiment against them with somebody who has never played DM to play there
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:41 am

shadexticos wrote:@titosantill
When a player warms the bench, he feels he has done poorly and puts in more effort to adjust to them system: isco, illaramendi, casillas, higuain and benzema in their prolific season with mou.
He is only lucky jese is not fit.
He doesn't have competition for his spot and hez gettin to comfortable with just being a starter in the great real madrid team.



not every player reacts the same to sitting on the bench, and most of those players, especially casillas lost a lot of confidence after riding the bench. I do agree that a rotational system might suit bale's inconsistencies, but carlo has to be careful how he handles it....and i trust he will do it carefully, he has handled benzema well, and players need that kind of trust. the occasional rotation here and there is good, but even then he'll need to be careful as to what games and opponents bale sits on the bench for.
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:45 am

halamadrid2 wrote:We have too many underperforming players right now. And Modric scoring does NOT excuse his poor performances, thought he played better after the goal but defensively we let Villarreal cut through us with ease, if they could finish they would easily have won today. We didn't really create any clear cut chances beyond our two goals. That Marcelo side is begging to be torn to shreds by a better side. I don't understand why Carlo plays a line up he most possibly won't use against Barca only to experiment against them with somebody who has never played DM to play there


we let them cut through us cos we have no muscle in the middle of the park, that's not entirely on modric or even kroos; try as they might neither is dm, nor bursting with energy, so, unfortunately, the opposition will continue to have fun with them......i think ancelotti is just being cautious in how he remedies the midfield, we'll need to exercise lots of patience. and hope if and when he finds a balance, we don't ruin it again in next season.
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by Bankz on Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:49 pm

Wonder what happened to bale. He was quite impressive at times last season even if he's overall technical ability/ball mastery lets him down generally. However, i like the fact that he produced when it mattered most last season and most especially he's will power to fight on, it's just that these days he plays like he needs to prove he's abilities to himself and teammates (maybe a quest to maybe stat-pad) thus, he's headless chicken performances. Whats more curious is that he is doing this while being 100% fit..so in my personal opinion, bale would improve if he's put on the bench trust me, it works for most players, except for the fact that carlo needs to do it wisely given the lack of options for now..maybe he isnt the type to get himself motivated or maybe he's just become comfortable being a starter..that not withstanding, lets try and keep our expectations realistic, as bale has never being the type to dribble two or multiple players nor is he known for his ball wizardry, nor is he the type to bamboozle a complete defence line..a top level player for me, but one who might become burdened with unrealistic expectations (similar to benzema). I believe he'll be back to he's best.
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by Zealous on Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:17 pm

Not sure why you guys are complaining. We won 2-0 in a tough stadium, that's a perfect scenario all things considered.

Granted it was touch and go for a while there but that's to be expected against a good team like Villarreal. At the very least we've gotten past that super shaky start and are playing much better.


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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:19 pm

What's worrying is not what happened in this game, it's the fact thet we have not improved at all defensively until now. On another day Villarreal would've won.

Apart from against Elche we have never really looked solid despite scoring shitloads of goals. There are wins and then there are thd performances as a team, atm we are doing the former but failing at the latter. We play like this against Barca and they would hand us another manita. I would have no qualms if this was a one off or if we've shown how solid we can be against good attacks but have we?? Not at all

Still early but persisting with this line up will make it harder for the those who should players to be trusted when going gets tough after January/February
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by shadexticos on Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:05 am

@titosantill
You use casillas as an example but you also need to know that even when he had has full confidence, he was awful. He had been average before mou came, it just took someone with his mou's balls to bench him.
His performance dint drop as a result of loss of confidence.

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:49 am

shadexticos wrote:@titosantill
You use casillas as an example but you also need to know that even when he had has full confidence, he was awful. He had been average before mou came, it just took someone with his mou's balls to bench him.
His performance dint drop as a result of loss of confidence.


c'mon you are overreacting, he was not or never average before mourinho came. hell, even in mourinho's second season mourinho hailed him as the best and candidiate for wpoty with cristiano. he had a stint of poor form at the beginning of mourinho's last season. the only problem iker has constantly had was with free kicks. and a lot of mistakes he's  made in the last year or two are mistakes he would have never made in the past; benching him for ADAN, ADAN :facepalm: and saying ADAN was playing well wit people calling him a mole, definitely dented his confidence

even the other players you mention, sitting on the bench never got them to the heights they were; benz hit form when pipita had surgery, and mou had to give him a chance- sitting on the bench wasn't what got him to form

isco has never hit the heights he did at malaga, illara played well two games ago, but hasn't had a consistent run of form (even though I do rate the lad highly, and feel he deserves a chance)

higuain, never hit the heights he did in the old days by lounging on the bench. player's need confidence. i understand ancelotti, i'm frustrated with bale too, but put yourself in carlo's shoes, he must be thinking that if he benches him and the result turns awry the media will skin him alive; also if he benches him and the team starts winning, florentino will skin him alive for benching a 100 mil signing.
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by shadexticos on Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:59 pm

@titisantill
Anywayz, I understand ur point of view and I believe benching a player is not the only way to bring out the best in a player but its one of the most reliable ways and works with most players.

Casillas had been making mistakes every since and costly mistakes at that.
I still remember that del piero's goal sometime in 2009 where he chipped a shot over casillas while he was in his post and he didn't even move and so many others.
He has been making too many mistakes for a world class goal keeper before mou benched him, it just got to the point that mou cudnt take it anymore.
I remember I had always been complaining about casillas to my madridista friends even before mou came so it dint take me as a surprise.

Benzema hit form during pipita's injury because he wanted to stake a claim in the starting line-up and made sure he wudnt be benched when pipita came back.

Illaramendi's game is more aggressive and faster than he used to play last season. He knows why he isn't starting and the idea of not warming the bench has made him up his tempo.
I remember watching him last season and saying that I didn't think he could ever produce anything special but this season, he looks like he can.

Higuain's style of game changed. He was an all-round player in the old days: he passed, he crossed, controlled better, pressured opponents, but his style of game evolved from the all-round player to that of a box 18 striker and he was accepted for that. the bench could only have made him more of a poacher not to revert to his old style.

Isco can't exactly hit the heights he hit at malaga where he was the most superior player and had the luxury of holding the ball for 10 seconds or more without getting a backlash from his teammates or coach.
Isco played a free role at malaga (no.10)
Isco didn't have much defensive work to do at malaga
The paramaters used to judge his performance in madrid are way more than in malaga..

But Florentino could be such a bitch tho. He makes everything harder for Ancelotti.

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by Zealous on Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:09 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:What's worrying is not what happened in this game, it's the fact thet we have not improved at all defensively until now.

Are you serious? We've definitely improved defensively overall. That game at Anoeta was a horror show. Watch that again and tell me we haven't improved a little bit lol.

halamadrid2 wrote:On another day Villarreal would've won.

But they didn't so that's all that really matters.

halamadrid2 wrote:Apart from against Elche we have never really looked solid despite scoring shitloads of goals. There are wins and then there are thd performances as a team, atm we are doing the former but failing at the latter. We play like this against Barca and they would hand us another manita. I would have no qualms if this was a one off or if we've shown how solid we can be against good attacks but have we?? Not at all

We'll have to wait and see how we do against better teams I agree. However, so long as we are winning games then we shouldn't be panicking too much.

I trust this group of players, they have character (although Carlo doesn't inspire me with confidence in the league).

halamadrid2 wrote:Still early but persisting with this line up will make it harder for the those who should players to be trusted when going gets tough after January/February


Last season we won the CL and Copa thanks to our quality. That quality is still there and as long as it is we'll always be within touching distance of success. It's obviously up to the coach now to put us in a position to succeed but I honestly don't mind us blowing teams away offensively if it means risking some defensive solidity (as long as we win of course).

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by FalcaoPunch on Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:25 pm

I don't think we've improved that much defensively.
It was so easy for Villarreal to make it onto our side of the pitch and crest dangerous opportunities.

I'm glad we won but that shouldn't excuse the fact that we got off a bit lucky with some of the chances that Villarreal choked away.
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by Zealous on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:21 pm

Look we're going to concede chances, that much is an absolute certainty so stop complaining about that because that won't go away completely. However we will most likely create more chances on the other end and the gamble the coach is taking is that we will finish off our chances when they come and put the game to bed early.

It's a gamble but with the firepower that we have it's one we can realistically pull off.

It'll put a lot of pressure on Ramos/Pepe/Varane but if they can hold steady (and of we see a return of San Iker) then who knows, this might just pay off.

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:01 pm

Yes because that's how we will win trophies right Rolling Eyes we didn't win the two cups last season by being content with "simply outscoring our opponents" we won them because we conceded very few goals on our way to the finals and in the finals we conceded from set pieces and let very few chances away. If you think our performances up until now are somewhat acceptable because *surprise surprise* with an attack costing billions happened to have outscored our average opponents so far then you need a reality check. The moment we were up against a proper big team we failed to beat them in three goes(something that has never happened to us until now) so with all due respect don't give me the crap that we are playing well because we are "winning"
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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by Zealous on Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:16 pm

We won trophies last season because of individual quality so don't fool yourself there. Our defense was just Pepe and Ramos playing to their full potential with Xabi and Modric being able to provide extra solidity in the middle.

Last season the entire squad gave it everything they had and their quality showed through. The actual football we played was rather straight forward and wasn't complex at all.

Playing a tight 4-4-2 counter attack is not rocket science in big games for this team and it's not something we couldn't do tomorrow if we wanted and I'd argue it would actually be a lot easier than what we are trying to do right now. However in the league we have to seriously try to win every game if we are serious about winning it and imo the best way to do that is just overwhelm the opponent offensively.

This team is supremely gifted up front. We should make use of that.

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:53 pm

I don't agree with that.  We figured out a very specific team style and we executed that...  we went to a 433 with Di Maria covering Ronaldo on the left and allowing CR to stay very high without losing anything defensively.  Angel also acted as the link for our strikers with Modric.  Alonso played the deep mid role and organized the defense.  Pepe and Ramos without Alonso was a complete and utter disaster because they don't have half a brain between them...  Alonso was the general.  We were worse than this year defensively when Alonso was out last season in the early part.  In fact, i thought we were mostly garbage last season until after the new year.

It took us until the end of November to show a few signs of life and Jan to get going...  but once we did, we started rolling.  Problem of course was that we were way behind in La Liga and Carlo had to play our starting XI to death to catch up.  We caught up but then paid for the playing time overload in the last 2 months.

Individual talent will put you over the top ONCE you get an effective team shape and team identity when you play the top teams.  Talent alone will only make the difference against the lower level teams MOST TIMES.  But as we have proven over many years, if you only rely on talent, you will not only struggle against the top teams, you will also lose games to teams you shouldn't because team play can overcome the talent gap in games...

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by shadexticos on Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:57 am

@sportsczy
Nicely put
Sportsczy has said it all. No more posts, this thread is closed.
So what's ur analysis about this season and your prediction?

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Re: Villarreal vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:58 am

shadexticos wrote:@titisantill

Casillas had been making mistakes every since and costly mistakes at that.
I still remember that del piero's goal sometime in 2009 where he chipped a shot over casillas while he was in his post and he didn't even move and so many others.
He has been making too many mistakes for a world class goal keeper before mou benched him, it just got to the point that mou cudnt take it anymore.
I remember I had always been complaining about casillas to my madridista friends even before mou came so it dint take me as a surprise.
.


that's one example, and i said before, iker's kryptonite has always been free kicks and long shots, he's been like that since his debut, even when he was at the peak of his powers. that year, we faced liverpool and lost 4 nil, if not for iker we could have lost by 9, no exaggeration. pepe, heinze, ramos, gago were extremely pathetic in that game.....not to mention its not like del piero was a scrub, he was among the top 10 even top 5 dead ball specialists in his time
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