The Official Balon d'Or 2014 Thread

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Post by Be/\/ceCALI Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:21 am

Give the award to Zlatan or Robben and it would be a
The Official Balon d'Or 2014 Thread - Page 12 Goodbye-Goodyear-blimp_3

The constant Messi/Ronaldo BS is annoying.

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Post by Forza Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:18 am

One thing is clear, this is the return of the undisputed worst thread in GL.
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Post by LeVersacci Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:21 am

I don't understand how people care so much about this award lmao.

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Post by Curtinho Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:25 pm

Why do people find it annoying that it's always Messi or Ronaldo? I know it's hard to appreciate because they've been around for a while, but they are arguably the two best players of all time and playing out their primes before our eyes. The media shoves them down our throats, yes, but that's because of how ridiculous what they are doing is. Nobody else is close to them.
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Post by rwo power Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:39 pm

Really? What about Philipp Lahm who excels as LB, RB, DM, CM or whatever position he is thrown in bar goalkeeper? Only because he doesn't score goals, his playing intelligence isn't worth anything?
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Post by Zealous Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:12 pm

Philipp Lahm is a boring player who will be forgotten very quickly though, at no point was he ever the best player in the world. He's was never even the best player on his team.

Much much much better players than him have not won the Balon D'Or lol.
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Post by Forza Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:24 pm

As I said, worst thread on GL.
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Post by Freeza Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:26 pm

Forza wrote:As I said, worst thread on GL.


It isn't even as good as that tbh.
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Post by Zealous Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:43 pm

Forza wrote:As I said, worst thread on GL.


You think Philip Lahm is the best player in the world? Laughing
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Post by sportsczy Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:03 pm

Lahm was and is insanely good... one of the best fullbacks of the modern era and it's not even in doubt.  Plays BOTH fullback positions at a WC level and even holding mid now.

To me, he's a legend.  Given how crap modern fullbacks are, it's refreshing to still have someone like Lahm around who would be one of the best in any era.

That said, has a fullback ever made it on a podium let alone win the BdO? Laughing If Maldini, Cafu and Abidal couldn't make it, neither should Lahm. He's not as good as those 3.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:14 pm

rwo power wrote:Really? What about Philipp Lahm who excels as LB, RB, DM, CM or whatever position he is thrown in bar goalkeeper? Only because he doesn't score goals, his playing intelligence isn't worth anything?

I don't understand what you are arguing here. That just because a player is best at their position, and is versatile, that they deserve the Ballon d'Or? I thought it was reserved for the best player in the world. There's no question that when it comes down to it the best players in the world are Messi and Ronaldo then everyone else. Nobody else is close.

Maybe people think it's unfair because there are a lot of great players in the world, but that's just reality.
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Post by Zealous Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:18 pm

Roberto Carlos came second behind Ronaldo in 97 but that was the FIFA World Player of the year award.

In 2002 Roberto came second, again behind Ronaldo, in the Balon D'Or vote.
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Post by rwo power Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:19 pm

Well, what does "best player" actually mean? Could CR7 play holding mid on world class level? If not, why is he considered the best overall then? Lahm can play several positions at world class level - wouldn't he be more complete and thus better then?
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Post by Zealous Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:26 pm

rwo power wrote:Well, what does "best player" actually mean? Could CR7 play holding mid on world class level? If not, why is he considered the best overall then? Lahm can play several positions at world class level - wouldn't he be more complete and thus better then?


By this logic John O'Shea is the best player of all time Laughing

I don't see Lahm playing CF either so your versatility argument holds no water.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:36 pm

rwo power wrote:Well, what does "best player" actually mean? Could CR7 play holding mid on world class level? If not, why is he considered the best overall then? Lahm can play several positions at world class level - wouldn't he be more complete and thus better then?

I think that if Ronaldo wanted to he could probably play any position well though obviously he is more suited to what he is doing now.

The thing is that the hardest thing to do in soccer is score goals. Why would you want Ronaldo to play a different position? Obviously it's difficult to compare across positions but most of the best players in the world want to play some kind of offensive position. For Ronaldo and Messi to be so far ahead of their peers even in that sense, when they play in the positions that have the most competition, just speaks to how good they are.

Not to take anything away from Lahm who is amazing, but it's not like he has a lot of competition for being the best at his position. Plus, I wouldn't say he's the best at several positions.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:38 pm

Well, Roberto Carlos wasn't as good as Maldini, Cafu or Abidal either Laughing  but Brazil won the WC in 2002.  WC years can be weird so i can see Lahm getting some serious consideration since Germany won it.  Neuer would be far more deserving if it's going to go to someone on Germany.

And "best player" in football had a big team component to it in BdO before FIFA took over and basically ruined it. That's why it had nothing to do with the individual abilities of a player solely... you not only had to be good but you had to take your team to the greatest heights. WC being the toughest tournament out there... a player taking a NT to a WC win gets a huge boost.

Ronaldo won CL and CDR. Lahm/Neuer won Bundi and WC. Since it's a FIFA award, not a UEFA one, i can see Blatter pushing it to go to one of the WC winners. I don't have a problem with any of them winning it tbh.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:45 pm

My problem with that philosophy is that because it is a team game and managers actually do have a profound impact on the team itself (not to mention teammates) I don't feel like judging an individual based on team awards is the way to go. Do you really think that Portugal had a similar chance to Germany of winning the World Cup based on their rosters alone?

Look at their individual contribution on the pitch and then maybe use team awards (WC, CL, domestic titles) to break any kind of deadlock.

To me there's no question, at least as long as they continue to play at their levels exhibited over the last 7 years, Ronaldo and Messi should be 1 and 2 every year (interchangeable depending on who is on better form). But that's just my opinion.


Last edited by El Cujo on Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Zealous Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:46 pm

First of all Roberto was one of the greatest if not the greatest Leftback of all time. Of course he's as good as those guys come on now lol

Anyway if a German player has to win why not Kroos? Aside from the cagey final he was one of the stand out players for Germany in every game they played. Plus he has a legitimate claim to being one of the best in his position.

Everyone is saying Lahm/Neuer/Muller etc. but Kroos/Schweinsteiger were just as important.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:48 pm

Kroos was not very influential in the CL or the Bundi this year though. He's played really well in the WC and at RM but he shouldn't be in the top 5. Neuer is the only German I would say should have a chance at the top 5.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:55 pm

Roberto Carlos was always overrated to me because he was crap defensively mostly...  his attack was great and he had a flamboyant playing style.  Very good player no doubt and among the greats.  But for me, a fullback can't be compared to the top tier of all time greats unless he's at least decent at his main job.... namely, defending.  Too many blunders to go with great play by Roberto.  He's the fullback version of Iker Casillas.

Maldini and Cafu did it all... Abidal was the best defensive fullback I have ever seen.
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Post by Zealous Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:59 pm

El Cujo wrote:Kroos was not very influential in the CL or the Bundi this year though. He's played really well in the WC and at RM but he shouldn't be in the top 5. Neuer is the only German I would say should have a chance at the top 5.


But he was fantastic at the world cup which is basically the only reason Neuer and Lahm are being mentioned...

Winning the Bundesliga when you play for Bayern Munich is an irrelevant accomplishment, especially considering that they wrapped it up by April. Not to mention Bayern Munich got embarrassed in the CL by Madrid.

My point is if people are seriously going to support the "A German should win the Balon D'Or" Kroos is as strong a candidate as anyone. But no one who thinks like that is actually going to support Kroos because he bad mouthed Bayern and chose to join Madrid.

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Post by sportsczy Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:01 pm

@El Cujo... think about the MVP awards in the US in the NBA, NFL or NHL. Usually goes to the superstar who is on the best eastern or western team of the regular season regardless of not being the overall best player. If those teams don't have a superstar that can individually claim it within reason, then they go to the next 2 teams... That's kind of how BdO used to work. Since it's a FIFA award, they're going to look to give it to a star on the WC winning squad if they can reasonably do it.

Team sports awards have always been like that until recently in football.
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Post by Zealous Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:04 pm

sportsczy wrote:Roberto Carlos was always overrated to me because he was crap defensively mostly...  his attack was great and he had a flamboyant playing style.  Very good player no doubt and among the greats.  But for me, a fullback can't be compared to the top tier of all time greats unless he's at least decent at his main job.... namely, defending.  Too many blunders to go with great play by Roberto.  He's the fullback version of Iker Casillas.

Maldini and Cafu did it all... Abidal was the best defensive fullback I have ever seen.


Let's agree to disagree there, I'd take prime Roberto Carlos over any left back in history.

He was one of those rare players you could justify asking for people to pay money in order to watch him. He's Madrid greatest LB (just ahead of Camacho),one of Brazil's best ever players (part of the 4 R's) and he's won it all at Club and International level.

He literally has nothing to envy from those other guys. It all comes down to preference I guess.
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Post by Curtinho Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:06 pm

sportsczy wrote:@El Cujo... think about the MVP awards in the US in the NBA, NFL or NHL. Usually goes to the superstar who is on the best eastern or western team of the regular season regardless of not being the overall best player. If those teams don't have a superstar that can individually claim it within reason, then they go to the next 2 teams... That's kind of how BdO used to work. Since it's a FIFA award, they're going to look to give it to a star on the WC winning squad if they can reasonably do it.

Team sports awards have always been like that until recently in football.


I don't follow the NBA or NFL very much, but I know in the NHL it doesn't work that way at all. Plus their awards are a little different too (not to mention it's not across multiple leagues or competitions so you can't really compare to soccer). I like that the NHL has the Pearson trophy which allows the players in the NHL to vote on who they think is the best player in the league that season.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:08 pm

Brazilians don't rate Roberto Calos that high Z... ask Ganso here. He made some major blunders that cost them games in WCs (1998 and 2006) and they hold him responsible for those tournament-ending losses. A bit unfair in 1998 although we wasn't faultless; but definitely true in 2006.
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Post by M99 Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:09 pm

Maldini finished 3rd once in the 90s iirc
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