UEFA Champions League : Olympiakos vs Juventus | 22.10.2014 |

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Post by salmano9 Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:40 pm

inderbaby wrote:Only thing positive from this game is that Morata can be a terrific player with the right service!
True dat... Their keeper had some really good saves, but we should have done better tbh... We should *bleep* them apart in the home game!!!

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Post by dronte Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:40 pm

I wonder why we only started to play in the last 20 minutes.. And wasting every chance there.

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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:41 pm

if we don't make the next round please Beppe and co #Allegri_out by December and get someone who knows what it takes to win in Europe and that is someone who is willing to use the attacking players we have and not defend till 80th min to realize that playing 4-3-3 actually works Laughing
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Post by DeviAngel Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:42 pm

Are you seriously thinking Allegri is the problem for the 3-5-2? I am 1000% sure its the board not allowing him to change it. He played 4-3-1-2 in Milan changed 4-3-3 hell he even tried 3-5-2.

Pirlo is the biggest problem. If he gets benched than its Allegri hating him and the media will jump on him and the fans something our board doesn't want right now
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:43 pm

dronte wrote:I wonder why we only started to play in the last 20 minutes.. And wasting every chance there.


what we should be wondering is why Allegri doesn't have any balls to play 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1 till its 80th min when its already too damn late....
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Post by salmano9 Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:43 pm

elm_baraja_shaman wrote:if we don't make the next round please Beppe and co #Allegri_out by December and get someone who knows what it takes to win in Europe and that is someone who is willing to use the attacking players we have and not defend till 80th min to realize that playing 4-3-3 actually works Laughing

We played 325 in the end...
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:46 pm

DeviAngel wrote:Are you seriously thinking Allegri is the problem for the 3-5-2? I am 1000% sure its the board not allowing him to change it. He played 4-3-1-2 in Milan changed 4-3-3 hell he even tried 3-5-2.

Pirlo is the biggest problem. If he gets benched than its Allegri hating him and the media will jump on him and the fans something our board doesn't want right now


i don't think its the board, he has always made excuse upon excuse why he doesn't play it, first from Barzagli to when Ogbonna, Chiellini, Caceres all play fine in a 4 man back....

methinks he was banking on 3-5-2 to save his first year career, but thank God there is Europe where you cannot get away with 3-5-2 nonsense..... unluckily for him he either from now on switches formations or it will cost him his job by December after we've been lampooned by the rest of the group........
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:48 pm

salmano9 wrote:
elm_baraja_shaman wrote:if we don't make the next round please Beppe and co #Allegri_out by December and get someone who knows what it takes to win in Europe and that is someone who is willing to use the attacking players we have and not defend till 80th min to realize that playing 4-3-3 actually works Laughing

We played 325 in the end...


we always play that when its already late what does he expect magic?  Laughing

if we had started with a 4-3-2-1 their goalie wouldn't be in superman mode for 90mins and at least 2 of those shots would have gone in.....

we waited till the 80th min...


Last edited by elm_baraja_shaman on Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by GIGItheBest Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:48 pm

Why's everyone so negative, we aren't out just yet, and hopefully we won't be out either. We MUST win our next game and hope that Atletico beat Olympiacos. This is a wake up call, switch formation, start Marchisio and Morata. Hopefully we still advance, we played really well at the end but their goalkeeper saved them on multiple occasions, which always seems to happen when we face any team. I just hate that I have to wait two weeks for the next game. Btw, is UCL head to head or GD? We must not concede next game. Next two games in Serie A we need to play 4-3-3. I really don't think we're a bad team in a shit league, I think the league is good and we're a good team, it's just that, like elm said, the 3-5-2 isn't for Europe, maybe in Serie A sure, but it's not for Europe. at time Lichsteiner is overrated because he's so predictable. Again, let's all hope we advance from the group stages.
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Post by Juveman17 Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:56 pm

Unbelievable. Same story every year.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:58 pm

I'm not even going to bother analysing it, it's a replica of almost all our european away games in the last 3 years.

Pathetic is an understatement.
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Post by inderbaby Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:08 pm

I am fed up of defending serie a so im just gonna say it. Seria a is shit! That's why we are shit, we have mediocre players in the league, shit stadiums, shit turn outs to game, hardly any world class players in the league and dinosaur coaches who are sheep and just follow tactics of the next best thing. We are the best team in a shit league so we shouldn't be disappointed when we get out played by a better team!

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Post by Luca Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:08 pm

well guys, we suck again Proud


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Post by DeviAngel Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:20 pm

Tevez: 'Juve need new mentality'



Carlos Tevez said Juventus “have to change” mentality in the Champions League after a defeat to Olympiacos.

“Roberto put in an incredible performance and Olympiacos can thank him for the victory,” the striker told Sport Mediaset after a 1-0 result.

“We have to turn over a new leaf and find something within ourselves. We must remember that we are Juventus. We certainly didn’t come here to lose.”

The Bianconeri are so dominant domestically, yet have won the Champions League only once.

“The history of Juventus have always been a bit like this, they do well in Serie A and struggle in Europe. If we want to become a great team then we have to turn that around and I believe we can change it.

“I think it is an issue of mentality and it depends only on us to change.”
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Post by DeviAngel Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:21 pm

Allegri: 'Juve good chance of qualifying'


Max Allegri defended Andrea Pirlo and assured Juventus “have a very good chance of qualifying” despite defeat to Olympiacos.

“I imagined this game differently above all in terms of the first half,” the Coach told Sport Mediaset after a 1-0 Champions League loss in Athens.

“We were bad technically, didn’t move enough and allowed three or four counter-attacks, which were what Olympiacos wanted.

“In the second half we wasted too many scoring opportunities. We leave here with a bitter result and regrets over the first half, but I maintain we still have a very good chance of qualifying.”

It’s a complicated situation, as Atletico Madrid and Olympiacos now have six points, while Juve and Malmo have three apiece.

“I think we made a lot of unforced errors in the first half and couldn’t control the game. Olympiacos pressed us a lot and in fact lost a lot of intensity as time wore on.

“We were too deep and stretched out between the sections in the first half, so we can only take the blame for having played like that.”

Pirlo was particularly disappointing, giving away possession several times, including on the incident that led to the goal.

“I am not worried, as Andrea was out for a long time and just needs match fitness. I played him tonight because I needed someone in front of the defence who could slow the game down and keep the ball while Olympiacos pressed us.

“I’m certain that with time and more fitness work Andrea will return to being the player we all knew.

“Morata proved he had great quality tonight, both in the first and second half.”

Allegri moved to the 4-2-3-1 system in the final 15 minutes, but should Juventus adopt that shape from the start in Europe?

“The idea tonight was to get the ball high up the field, but you need to stay tight and we left some gaps in midfield, staying too stretched out.”
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:23 pm

Problem with 3-5-2, is that being correlational to Allegri's preference for possession and slow build-up from the midfield, it does not possess the characteristics to succeed in a CL which requires a more simple, direct and streamlined system. Pace, width, vectors and what not are needed within Europe as what does not work in Serie A for Juve, has proven to work for them in Europe as Conte failed to make that distinction; resulting in his demise vs Bayern and in the group stages 2nd year. Allegri who HAS actually made a number of distinct differences tactically, is also failing to realize that. Not only the 3-5-2 has limited strikers such as Àlvaro Morata and Llorente due to it being incongruent for them, it simply cannot work within this group.

Allegri cannot be at fault tonight aside from the decision to bench their player of the season (so far) in Marchisio for an unfit Pirlo.

Solace for Juve is that Roberto single-handedly made miraculous saves to stop at least 4 clear cut chances for goals. Along with facing Atleti and Olympiakos at home are incredibly tough tasks, the latter being highly overlooked as well.
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:25 pm

DeviAngel wrote:Allegri: 'Juve good chance of qualifying'



Allegri moved to the 4-2-3-1 system in the final 15 minutes, but should Juventus adopt that shape from the start in Europe?

“The idea tonight was to get the ball high up the field, but you need to stay tight and we left some gaps in midfield, staying too stretched out.”


he is still gonna cling to 3-5-2 brethren Proud
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Post by salmano9 Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:41 pm

I loved how we played in the end tbh... I hope that we switch to my favorite 4231 Sad
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Post by marottalad Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:22 am

Here's my ideas for drastic change on how to improve the squad:

- Get rid of pirlo first and foremost, he will free up wages for a quality winger or attacking midfielder.

- Build the attack around tevez or turn him into a forward in a 3 man attack or attacking midfielder behind morata.

- Bring back Berardi

- Trust Coman

-Play morata ahead of llorente, possibly get rid of llorente for funds and to free up wages if we need to.

- Purchase up and coming talents to play in a " new formation " or even buy "quality rejects" from big clubs e.g mata, isco,pedro to fit a new formation.

just my two cents.. what do you guys think?
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Post by Cotes Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:32 am

I said it before it happened...Pirlo was the problem today
When Marchisio entered the field...the midfield dominance changed...
He didn't need to be on the ball as even the Olympiacos players could realize they had less space and time.
He provides so much assistance tracking back that Vidal had more freedom to roam and attack.
When Pirlo is on the field, Pogba & Vidal were asked to do too much as he couldn't track back when he made his mistakes. This messes with the shape of the team when they have to leave their position to cover his.
Lichtsteiner & Asamoah also had more freedom on the wings..
Pirlo atm is more of a liability than an asset...
He really should be starting from the bench or in less important matches.

It is too painful to see us lose match which we dominated in shots, passes, possession and overall better performance than the opposition.

On the bright side...Morata is a beast!
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Post by Luca Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:39 am

I wouldn't build around Tevez, but I would prefer an attack which doesn't rely so much on one player- we would basically be switching Pirlo reliance to Tevez reliance.

About Pirlo, I believe he has a role, he's not going to be around forever as it is anyways, I don't see him as a burden but I understand what you mean on that point.

We shouldn't sacrifice Pirlo, who is literally one of the best in the world at his position, to free up wages- those wages must be found elsewhere in my opinion.

Berardi, Zaza, Boakye, Gabbiadini, there are a lot of potential Juventus forward- any which I would love to see get a chance.

Coman is very raw, but hopefully we see him play some.

Morata and Llorente, I don't think Llorente is the problem- as underwhelming as he's been so far, with that being said Morata has been a spark when he plays.

The quality rejects also come with big wage packets, that's the problem with that idea. The up and coming talents, well, Juventus has been pretty good at that recently, Pogba, Coman of course, Morata. Ties to Zaza, Immobile, Boakye, Berardi, Gabbiadini- but I hope this trend continues.

Overall, not very 'drastic' changes but some ideal ones and some nice ideas overall brother

I know a lot of us has been blaming the 3-5-2, me, especially, but when the players play as they did today or against Sassuolo I don't think it matters what system, they were underwhelming in both games. With that being said, I do not like the system for different reasons- it is too reliant on a combination of wing play from Lichtsteiner and Asamoah/Evra, and on Pirlo from deep as well as Tevez dropping deep to create. This is a handicap, as there is always an extra defender on the field with three center backs and also, always one less attacker. That's just how I feel

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Post by marottalad Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:03 pm

Luca wrote:I wouldn't build around Tevez, but I would prefer an attack which doesn't rely so much on one player- we would basically be switching Pirlo reliance to Tevez reliance.

About Pirlo, I believe he has a role, he's not going to be around forever as it is anyways, I don't see him as a burden but I understand what you mean on that point.

We shouldn't sacrifice Pirlo, who is literally one of the best in the world at his position, to free up wages- those wages must be found elsewhere in my opinion.

Berardi, Zaza, Boakye, Gabbiadini, there are a lot of potential Juventus forward- any which I would love to see get a chance.

Coman is very raw, but hopefully we see him play some.

Morata and Llorente, I don't think Llorente is the problem- as underwhelming as he's been so far, with that being said Morata has been a spark when he plays.

The quality rejects also come with big wage packets, that's the problem with that idea. The up and coming talents, well, Juventus has been pretty good at that recently, Pogba, Coman of course, Morata. Ties to Zaza, Immobile, Boakye, Berardi, Gabbiadini- but I hope this trend continues.

Overall, not very 'drastic' changes but some ideal ones and some nice ideas overall brother

I know a lot of us has been blaming the 3-5-2, me, especially, but when the players play as they did today or against Sassuolo I don't think it matters what system, they were underwhelming in both games. With that being said, I do not like the system for different reasons- it is too reliant on a combination of wing play from Lichtsteiner and Asamoah/Evra, and on Pirlo from deep as well as Tevez dropping deep to create. This is a handicap, as there is always an extra defender on the field with three center backs and also, always one less attacker. That's just how I feel


With the " top class rejects from other clubs" e.g the de bruynes, matas and kagawas of this world of course are going to come with high wages but if we want to match the top clubs in europe we haveto pay with our wallets or we will just continue on a downward spiral. Juventus has 250 million fans estimated world wide and a growing healthy reveue, i think we can afford to add the necessary world class players without spending over the top and going broke.

Another thing about players like coman and berardi yes they may be raw but if we add them into the team with experienced players and a couple of solid signings ( top club rejects) we can mould them into world class players we haveto take some risks or we will fall behind even further then we are from the top european clubs.

Look how talanted and stacked the attacking the top teams are in europe.. barca,psg,chelsea,madrid etc we might match them all over the park and even strikers we are up their but in terms of wingers and attacking mids we are so far behind even teams like fiorentina and napoli are greater then us in that sense, until we adress this problem we will not move forward i believe
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:16 pm

We need to sell half the team. Serie A is nothing, absolutely nothing. And there's no point having an overly stacked midfield if it gets us nowhere.


Llorente - Sell

Pirlo - gone

Ogbonna - sell

Vidal or Pogba - cash in

Giovinco - sell

Replace Licht. Use Asa as a CM or sell him.

We need to change for a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 and stop playing slow motion static football, we can grind results in Serie A but it's a *bleep* pathetic league right now and we should not be happy being a half decent team dominating a slightly buffed up SPL.


We need a pair of young, solid full backs. We need a pair of Wingers. We could use a holding midfielder and our bench would need a couple of minor adjustments to go along with the change in system


Now if we can't afford to do that, after a bunch of sales plus our ever increasing budget then we're clearly not ambitious and we'd be better off under new ownership.


OR we could hold on to our players who are (quickly) regressing with age and lack of motivation, and pretend that it's somehow going to help us improve.
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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:47 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:We need to sell half the team. Serie A is nothing, absolutely nothing. And there's no point having an overly stacked midfield if it gets us nowhere.


Llorente - Sell

Pirlo - gone

Ogbonna - sell

Vidal or Pogba - cash in

Giovinco - sell

Replace Licht. Use Asa as a CM or sell him.

We need to change for a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 and stop playing slow motion static football, we can grind results in Serie A but it's a *bleep* pathetic league right now and we should not be happy being a half decent team dominating a slightly buffed up SPL.


We need a pair of young, solid full backs. We need a pair of Wingers. We could use a holding midfielder and our bench would need a couple of minor adjustments to go along with the change in system


Now if we can't afford to do that, after a bunch of sales plus our ever increasing budget then we're clearly not ambitious and we'd be better off under new ownership.


OR we could hold on to our players who are (quickly) regressing with age and lack of motivation, and pretend that it's somehow going to help us improve.


Exactly what I was saying yesterday. We are simply over rated coz we play in a shit league! We need to try and get Isco from Madrid coz damn that boy could be some player and he is just rotting on the bench. I agree on cashing in on the above players but I would keep Pogba another season as I think he is getting better! Vidal is at the top of his game and we should sell him for as much as we can get either in January or the summer.


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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:50 pm

We should build our midfield around Pogba going forward, however unless we give him a lot of money or at least a fair bit of money and the promise of ambition then he'll be off before long.
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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:52 pm

I would also add Bonucci to that List to sell!

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