UEFA Champions League : Olympiakos vs Juventus | 22.10.2014 |

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Post by marottalad Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:22 am

Here's my ideas for drastic change on how to improve the squad:

- Get rid of pirlo first and foremost, he will free up wages for a quality winger or attacking midfielder.

- Build the attack around tevez or turn him into a forward in a 3 man attack or attacking midfielder behind morata.

- Bring back Berardi

- Trust Coman

-Play morata ahead of llorente, possibly get rid of llorente for funds and to free up wages if we need to.

- Purchase up and coming talents to play in a " new formation " or even buy "quality rejects" from big clubs e.g mata, isco,pedro to fit a new formation.

just my two cents.. what do you guys think?

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Post by Cotes Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:32 am

I said it before it happened...Pirlo was the problem today
When Marchisio entered the field...the midfield dominance changed...
He didn't need to be on the ball as even the Olympiacos players could realize they had less space and time.
He provides so much assistance tracking back that Vidal had more freedom to roam and attack.
When Pirlo is on the field, Pogba & Vidal were asked to do too much as he couldn't track back when he made his mistakes. This messes with the shape of the team when they have to leave their position to cover his.
Lichtsteiner & Asamoah also had more freedom on the wings..
Pirlo atm is more of a liability than an asset...
He really should be starting from the bench or in less important matches.

It is too painful to see us lose match which we dominated in shots, passes, possession and overall better performance than the opposition.

On the bright side...Morata is a beast!
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Post by Luca Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:39 am

I wouldn't build around Tevez, but I would prefer an attack which doesn't rely so much on one player- we would basically be switching Pirlo reliance to Tevez reliance.

About Pirlo, I believe he has a role, he's not going to be around forever as it is anyways, I don't see him as a burden but I understand what you mean on that point.

We shouldn't sacrifice Pirlo, who is literally one of the best in the world at his position, to free up wages- those wages must be found elsewhere in my opinion.

Berardi, Zaza, Boakye, Gabbiadini, there are a lot of potential Juventus forward- any which I would love to see get a chance.

Coman is very raw, but hopefully we see him play some.

Morata and Llorente, I don't think Llorente is the problem- as underwhelming as he's been so far, with that being said Morata has been a spark when he plays.

The quality rejects also come with big wage packets, that's the problem with that idea. The up and coming talents, well, Juventus has been pretty good at that recently, Pogba, Coman of course, Morata. Ties to Zaza, Immobile, Boakye, Berardi, Gabbiadini- but I hope this trend continues.

Overall, not very 'drastic' changes but some ideal ones and some nice ideas overall brother

I know a lot of us has been blaming the 3-5-2, me, especially, but when the players play as they did today or against Sassuolo I don't think it matters what system, they were underwhelming in both games. With that being said, I do not like the system for different reasons- it is too reliant on a combination of wing play from Lichtsteiner and Asamoah/Evra, and on Pirlo from deep as well as Tevez dropping deep to create. This is a handicap, as there is always an extra defender on the field with three center backs and also, always one less attacker. That's just how I feel

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Post by marottalad Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:03 pm

Luca wrote:I wouldn't build around Tevez, but I would prefer an attack which doesn't rely so much on one player- we would basically be switching Pirlo reliance to Tevez reliance.

About Pirlo, I believe he has a role, he's not going to be around forever as it is anyways, I don't see him as a burden but I understand what you mean on that point.

We shouldn't sacrifice Pirlo, who is literally one of the best in the world at his position, to free up wages- those wages must be found elsewhere in my opinion.

Berardi, Zaza, Boakye, Gabbiadini, there are a lot of potential Juventus forward- any which I would love to see get a chance.

Coman is very raw, but hopefully we see him play some.

Morata and Llorente, I don't think Llorente is the problem- as underwhelming as he's been so far, with that being said Morata has been a spark when he plays.

The quality rejects also come with big wage packets, that's the problem with that idea. The up and coming talents, well, Juventus has been pretty good at that recently, Pogba, Coman of course, Morata. Ties to Zaza, Immobile, Boakye, Berardi, Gabbiadini- but I hope this trend continues.

Overall, not very 'drastic' changes but some ideal ones and some nice ideas overall brother

I know a lot of us has been blaming the 3-5-2, me, especially, but when the players play as they did today or against Sassuolo I don't think it matters what system, they were underwhelming in both games. With that being said, I do not like the system for different reasons- it is too reliant on a combination of wing play from Lichtsteiner and Asamoah/Evra, and on Pirlo from deep as well as Tevez dropping deep to create. This is a handicap, as there is always an extra defender on the field with three center backs and also, always one less attacker. That's just how I feel


With the " top class rejects from other clubs" e.g the de bruynes, matas and kagawas of this world of course are going to come with high wages but if we want to match the top clubs in europe we haveto pay with our wallets or we will just continue on a downward spiral. Juventus has 250 million fans estimated world wide and a growing healthy reveue, i think we can afford to add the necessary world class players without spending over the top and going broke.

Another thing about players like coman and berardi yes they may be raw but if we add them into the team with experienced players and a couple of solid signings ( top club rejects) we can mould them into world class players we haveto take some risks or we will fall behind even further then we are from the top european clubs.

Look how talanted and stacked the attacking the top teams are in europe.. barca,psg,chelsea,madrid etc we might match them all over the park and even strikers we are up their but in terms of wingers and attacking mids we are so far behind even teams like fiorentina and napoli are greater then us in that sense, until we adress this problem we will not move forward i believe
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:16 pm

We need to sell half the team. Serie A is nothing, absolutely nothing. And there's no point having an overly stacked midfield if it gets us nowhere.


Llorente - Sell

Pirlo - gone

Ogbonna - sell

Vidal or Pogba - cash in

Giovinco - sell

Replace Licht. Use Asa as a CM or sell him.

We need to change for a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 and stop playing slow motion static football, we can grind results in Serie A but it's a *bleep* pathetic league right now and we should not be happy being a half decent team dominating a slightly buffed up SPL.


We need a pair of young, solid full backs. We need a pair of Wingers. We could use a holding midfielder and our bench would need a couple of minor adjustments to go along with the change in system


Now if we can't afford to do that, after a bunch of sales plus our ever increasing budget then we're clearly not ambitious and we'd be better off under new ownership.


OR we could hold on to our players who are (quickly) regressing with age and lack of motivation, and pretend that it's somehow going to help us improve.
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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:47 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:We need to sell half the team. Serie A is nothing, absolutely nothing. And there's no point having an overly stacked midfield if it gets us nowhere.


Llorente - Sell

Pirlo - gone

Ogbonna - sell

Vidal or Pogba - cash in

Giovinco - sell

Replace Licht. Use Asa as a CM or sell him.

We need to change for a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 and stop playing slow motion static football, we can grind results in Serie A but it's a *bleep* pathetic league right now and we should not be happy being a half decent team dominating a slightly buffed up SPL.


We need a pair of young, solid full backs. We need a pair of Wingers. We could use a holding midfielder and our bench would need a couple of minor adjustments to go along with the change in system


Now if we can't afford to do that, after a bunch of sales plus our ever increasing budget then we're clearly not ambitious and we'd be better off under new ownership.


OR we could hold on to our players who are (quickly) regressing with age and lack of motivation, and pretend that it's somehow going to help us improve.


Exactly what I was saying yesterday. We are simply over rated coz we play in a shit league! We need to try and get Isco from Madrid coz damn that boy could be some player and he is just rotting on the bench. I agree on cashing in on the above players but I would keep Pogba another season as I think he is getting better! Vidal is at the top of his game and we should sell him for as much as we can get either in January or the summer.


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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:50 pm

We should build our midfield around Pogba going forward, however unless we give him a lot of money or at least a fair bit of money and the promise of ambition then he'll be off before long.
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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:52 pm

I would also add Bonucci to that List to sell!

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:56 pm

I would agree as he pissed me off last season to no end however only if we have some serious replacements lined up

Barzagli will be finished fairly soon, Chiellini has been so inconsistent in the back 3, hopefully he would quickly regain what made him so good in a back 4 but who knows?

So we can sell Ogbonna and replace him with whoever we want on the bench tbh, Bonucci should be sold only if we find a Barzagli replacement who can start most of our games in a back 4 alongside Chiellini.
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Post by marottalad Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:01 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:We should build our midfield around Pogba going forward, however unless we give him a lot of money or at least a fair bit of money and the promise of ambition then he'll be off before long.


Excactly that's another downside to us not investing on difference makers in the transfer market if we do not invest the likes of pogba and vidal will leave us.

If pogba leaves it won't be the end of the world but a sign that italian football is absolutley dead, knowing marotta we wouldn't re-invest the money on " top players" we might get afew up and coming players or good,deceant players but not pogba and vidal level players
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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:05 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:I would agree as he pissed me off last season to no end however only if we have some serious replacements lined up

Barzagli will be finished fairly soon, Chiellini has been so inconsistent in the back 3, hopefully he would quickly regain what made him so good in a back 4 but who knows?

So we can sell Ogbonna and replace him with whoever we want on the bench tbh, Bonucci should be sold only if we find a Barzagli replacement who can start most of our games in a back 4 alongside Chiellini.


You know what f*cks me off the most. Why are our defenders seeing so much of the ball. They just pass it amongst each other. Chiellini is a good defender but it drives me nuts when I see him playing the ball back and forth with his hook of left f*cking leg! Asamoah and Licht aint doing shit on the wings and neither of them are really contributing to holding down the fortress so whats the point in playing them. They don't attack good and they don't defend good either coz one is a RB sked to play as a winger and one is a CM!


Last edited by inderbaby on Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:06 pm

It's way too early to list a proper prediction but roughly we should aim to get a pair of full backs and a pair of wingers above all else

We should definitely buy a quality CB to play alongside Chiellini when Barzagli goes the way of Pirlo too.

Static, big slow target men are a thing of the past, as is slow motion repetitive football that's easy to shut down

So Llorente needs to go ASAP, and we should aim to be far more fluid as opposed to relying on 1 or 2 players to create for us, making us disgustingly predictable.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:09 pm

Like I said almost 2 years ago now, the fundamental flaw with our team and the system it's operating in, is how we play extra defenders.

And then what comes next is f*cking pathetic

We ask defenders to perform a midfielders job, Chiellini and Bonucci see way too much of the ball

We rely on defenders in wide positions, to do the job of a WINGER. Hence technically shit players who are defenders and ONLY defenders a la Lichtsteiner constantly recieving the ball in the oppositions final 3rd. And THEN we have midfielders who are amongst the very best, having to play in advanced positions and create + score.


The very best B2B midfielders are not as effective as a decent playmaker at PLAYMAKING

The best full backs are nowhere near as good at attacking wing play when compared to a DECENT winger and a *bleep* technically terrible, ball winning CB should NOT be playing keep ball in the oppositions half with no aim other than passive, useless possession.
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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:12 pm

You see I'm not even sure how good Vidal and Pogba actually are. The players who look dynamite in serie a are barely making waves when moving to big clubs in better leagues, maybe our players are just good/average but the weak league makes them look great. Jovetic, Lamela, Balotelli, Immobile (so far), Pastore, Even Cavani for the money they paid is a flop for me. These players all looked top notch in serie a, they ain't done shit at their new clubs coz they aint the world class players they looked like in serie a!

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Post by marottalad Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:14 pm

It's not reality but i would LOVE to see a brand spanking new team something like this..

buffon
lich-new cb-chiellini-rodriguez/schmelzer
vidal pogba/isco asamoah/marchisio
berardi/pedro morata/tevez coman/ left winger

sell pirlo, maybe sell llorente sell vidal if we haveto pereyra can play in his position, sell bonucci, barzagli will retire soon.

a straight swap with madrid for isco and vidal we should also try and get coentrao i still believe he is a top left back, well... good enough for juve anyway or isco and money for vidal.

a top left winger or another attacking mid would improve the side IMMENSELY can't stress this enough

A new centre back to sure things up at the back( the defence is the last area i would adress personally) but it still needs to be improved after we adress the creativity issues......



These requests or suggestions will be to hard by the incompetent juventus management i am sure of this but we can all dream right? As a fed up fan I think we are all on the same page here we want a new modern Juventus, while we are being realistic we also want an upgrade. Juventus has a huge history new stadium huge fan base and a growing revenue surely it can't be too hard of a job to sign bench warmers from top clubs and prospects right?
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:15 pm

Yeah it's shocking, Serie A.

Pogba I guess is the real deal as he's turning heads even in his national team and he's barely in his 20's

Vidal is fantastic but we rely on him far too much in an attacking sense, the rest...

Yeah apart from them 2 and Barzagli we're pretty damn overrated for the most part.

Tevez is not consistently World Class, Llorente I simply do not rate as a footballer. Even if he is a very hard working player.

Licht is a solid full back, or was a solid full back. He's shit at attacking

Asamoah is a decent CM, who is only doing well at LWB because of the abundant lack of opposition in this crap league.

Our defence is clueless in general when a pacey, direct player is running at us. Funnily enough the exact same type of player that WE need and Serie A has almost none of.
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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:21 pm

We need to see a back 4 in our next 3 serie a games regardless of how many points we drop so atleast we supporters can get an accounting of what our players are capable of when played in their correct positions atleast.

Buffon
licht--bonu--chiello--evra
vidal---marchisio--pogba
pereyra/coman--tevez
--------morata

For me something like this for Sunday against Palermo

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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:24 pm

marottalad wrote:It's not reality but i would LOVE to see a brand spanking new team something like this..

buffon
lich-new cb-chiellini-rodriguez/schmelzer
vidal pogba/isco asamoah/marchisio
berardi/pedro morata/tevez coman/ left winger

sell pirlo, maybe sell llorente sell vidal if we haveto pereyra can play in his position, sell bonucci, barzagli will retire soon.

a straight swap with madrid for isco and vidal we should also try and get coentrao i still believe he is a top left back, well... good enough for juve anyway or isco and money for vidal.

a top left winger or another attacking mid would improve the side IMMENSELY can't stress this enough

A new centre back to sure things up at the back( the defence is the last area i would adress personally) but it still needs to be improved after we adress the creativity issues......



These requests or suggestions will be to hard by the incompetent juventus management i am sure of this but we can all dream right? As a fed up fan I think we are all on the same page here we want a new modern Juventus, while we are being realistic we also want an upgrade. Juventus has a huge history new stadium huge fan base and a growing revenue surely it can't be too hard of a job to sign bench warmers from top clubs and prospects right?


Isco and Coentrao/Marcelo for Vidal = SOLD

Isco is potentially one of the prospective best players in the world for me, what a talent and he was destroying all oppositions placed before him before he moved to madrid!

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:26 pm

I'd do that too

Madrid could use a ball winner in their team, it's one of the very few improvements I can see.

They certainly don't need 2 versions of James Rodriguez in their team, and we could use a proper left back that isn't ancient and crap.
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Post by marottalad Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:26 pm

inderbaby wrote:We need to see a back 4 in our next 3 serie a games regardless of how many points we drop so atleast we supporters can get an accounting of what our players are capable of when played in their correct positions atleast.

Buffon
licht--bonu--chiello--evra
vidal---marchisio--pogba
pereyra/coman--tevez
--------morata

For me something like this for Sunday against Palermo


we could feesibly play a 4-3-3 if we bought back berardi in january but it would be very risky putting faith in a 21 year old and a 18 year old but i think berardi-morata-coman would be a nice youthful attack if tevez didn't fit as a winger or the lone striker.
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Post by marottalad Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:28 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:I'd do that too

Madrid could use a ball winner in their team, it's one of the very few improvements I can see.

They certainly don't need 2 versions of James Rodriguez in their team, and we could use a proper left back that isn't ancient and crap.


Reality: Isco goes to the epl, madrid buy vidal for 40 mil off us, we use that money to pay for co-own deals that we owe and we bring back sturaro.
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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:35 pm

marottalad wrote:
inderbaby wrote:We need to see a back 4 in our next 3 serie a games regardless of how many points we drop so atleast we supporters can get an accounting of what our players are capable of when played in their correct positions atleast.

Buffon
licht--bonu--chiello--evra
vidal---marchisio--pogba
pereyra/coman--tevez
--------morata

For me something like this for Sunday against Palermo


we could feesibly play a 4-3-3 if we bought back berardi in january but it would be very risky putting faith in a 21 year old and a 18 year old but i think berardi-morata-coman would be a nice youthful attack if tevez didn't fit as a winger or the lone striker.


I don't rate Berardi at all and Coman needs a full 90 mins playing as either a winger or attacking mid to see what he has.

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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:36 pm

marottalad wrote:
Tomwin Lannister wrote:I'd do that too

Madrid could use a ball winner in their team, it's one of the very few improvements I can see.

They certainly don't need 2 versions of James Rodriguez in their team, and we could use a proper left back that isn't ancient and crap.


Reality: Isco goes to the epl, madrid buy vidal for 40 mil off us, we use that money to pay for co-own deals that we owe and we bring back sturaro.


Damn you really are the Marotta lad hahaha

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Post by juvealbanian Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:38 pm

Creativity is the answer....

We need someone to make the right pass at the right time upfront and a pure poacher to kill this type of matches.
The team is built completely wrong for UCL.
Nowadays speed,passes,vision and killer striker win the games and we miss most of it,if not all.
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Post by marottalad Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:41 pm

juvealbanian wrote:Creativity is the answer....

We need someone to make the right pass at the right time upfront and a pure poacher to kill this type of matches.
The team is built completely wrong for UCL.
Nowadays speed,passes,vision and killer striker win the games and we miss most of it,if not all.


bring me an isco or cuardrado( even if he is from the purple rats)
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Post by inderbaby Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:41 pm

Champions league football is actually quite simple. Press the opposition hard for 90 mins, quick direct passing and movement and the most obvious tactic = TAKE YOUR CHANCES! It also helps if you know how to park the bus!

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