Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by CBarca on Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:56 am

@alexjanosik wrote:
Fußball wrote:
@alexjanosik wrote:I refuse to blame the players much when this loss is clearly our managers fault.


Yes, clearly. Bayern, Brazil, Netherlands, Real Madrid, 6 consecutive games against Atletico Madrid with 0 wins. What do these games all have in common? The same core players. What do they not have in common? The coach, there have been 4 different ones. LOL


But wasnt Enrique supposed to be different?The drill sergeant who was going to fix our positioning and pressing.What happened there?
The games you mentioned were different and none of them were this embarrassing.Tata had his faults but he never got schooled like this.
Enrique got the players in he wanted over the summer.If he cant get the result then and puts on a shocker,then yes the blame is entirely on him.


The pressing was absolutely abysmal...

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by Winter is Coming on Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:58 am

@alexjanosik wrote:futbol
I would love to hear your spin on this.Kindly elaborate how this wasnt Enrique's fault.


All tho I agree Enrique deserve blame as you can see in my response, but lets not make it seem like the players don't deserve the blame. I highly doubt Enrique told Pique to slide and give away a stupid PK and I highly doubt he told them not to defend Pepe in the set piece goal.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by futbol on Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:00 am

@alexjanosik wrote:
Fußball wrote:
@alexjanosik wrote:I refuse to blame the players much when this loss is clearly our managers fault.


Yes, clearly. Bayern, Brazil, Netherlands, Real Madrid, 6 consecutive games against Atletico Madrid with 0 wins. What do these games all have in common? The same core players. What do they not have in common? The coach, there have been 4 different ones. LOL


But wasnt Enrique supposed to be different?The drill sergeant who was going to fix our positioning and pressing.What happened there?
The games you mentioned were different and none of them were this embarrassing.Tata had his faults but he never got schooled like this.
Enrique got the players in he wanted over the summer.If he cant get the result then and puts on a shocker,then yes the blame is entirely on him.


What are you talking about? This game was a carbon copy of last season's Bernabeu Clasico. Barca took the lead, Benzema should have scored 3 or more goals but because he's worse than Higuain/Falcao he only scored 1, Ronaldo scored a penalty, Barca's right side with Alves got raped by Di Maria/Marcelo, Madrid scored 3 goals. It was the same game except Barca didn't get 2 penalties and Messi missed from 5 yards.

Problem is the same as ever. Pique isn't Barca level, Alves gets beaten one on one 9 out of 10 times, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta are too slow and unphysical if they can't dominate games (which they can't do anymore), collective pressing non-existent.

I'd put blame on Lucho for the lack of collective workrate but he clearly, CLEARLY wants his team to do just that, he's talking about nothing else but the players aren't doing it anymore. Haven't done it under Tata, Tito or del Bosque either. Why would they? Pep was just the first one who saw it early, see his autobiagraphy. Iniesta has won 5 European Cups and a World Cup alongside half a dozen league titles and shared the top 3 Ballon d'Or podium for consecutive seasons. Isco is a youth player who wants to earn a starting spot at Madrid and Spain, he has no guaranteed place. That's why he puts in 7 tackles against Liverpool. Who does that at Barca? Mascherano and who else? Neymar already pulling rainbow flicks after 15 minutes of football. Summing up the attitude of the team. And no, it's not just Messi, even though he's the easiest target.


ter Stegen
Montoya Bartra Mathieu Alba
Mascherano
Rakitic Rafinha
Suarez Messi Neymar

The rest doesn't deserve to get on the field unless they die on the pitch and can't breath properly after 60 minutes. It's far from a world class team, it might win f all, but they won't annoy me as much as seeing Alves' and Pique's faces week in week out, Iniesta doing endless pirouettes with 0 end product, Busquets trying to shield the ball and draw a foul and getting his pocket picked and all the other things which I've seen a thousand times in the past 2 years. Bartra, Rakitic, Mascherano, Rafinha. They will all fight. If they don't we can start blaming Enrique.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by DuringTheWar on Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:46 am

@Winter is Coming wrote:
@DuringTheWar wrote:
@Winter is Coming wrote:but midfield theres hardly service nowadays.


You dominated the ball and got your attacking players into a lot of good positions. From an attacking perspective what more do you want from your midfielders than that?

We had a good control and chances for the first 20-30 mins at most that was about it after that we looked like Getafe.


No you didn't. You quite regularly got your attacking players in good positions and I'm surprised you didn't score more than one. I imagine you would have scored a few if your front three had all been on form.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by Winter is Coming on Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:57 am

@DuringTheWar wrote:
@Winter is Coming wrote:
@DuringTheWar wrote:
You dominated the ball and got your attacking players into a lot of good positions. From an attacking perspective what more do you want from your midfielders than that?

We had a good control and chances for the first 20-30 mins at most that was about it after that we looked like Getafe.


No you didn't. You quite regularly got your attacking players in good positions and I'm surprised you didn't score more than one. I imagine you would have scored a few if your front three had all been on form.

I'll have to go see some highlights in bit. I don't recall really seeing this, especially in the second half.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by sportsczy on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:17 am

My two cents...  your managers don't adjust to game conditions ever.  If you have control, no problem.  But when you don't, you'd want a manager to adjust a few things.  For example, how in the world do you think defending with 7 (or 6 if you rightly say that Xavi can't defend) against a team like Madrid would work?  We scored 3 and it should have been 5 or 6.

I now realize the impact of an in-from Xavi.  Both NT and club have gone down the toilet since his level has dropped.

The Barca managers need to manage and stop arrogantly thinking that it's one way or the highway.  You can adjust within a possession-style system.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by futbol on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:31 am

@sportsczy wrote:I now realize the impact of an in-from Xavi.  Both NT and club have gone down the toilet since his level has dropped.

The Barca managers need to manage and stop arrogantly thinking that it's one way or the highway.  You can adjust within a possession-style system.


The Barca directors would have allowed Xavi to leave if he wanted to, they left it to him to decide (I think only reason he stayed is because he's going to end up at NYC FC but they start the season next year). 2 months later he's starting a Clasico in the Bernabeu. So what is he? Surplus or ready to start the biggest fixture of the year? Inconsequential management.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by sportsczy on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:42 am

I'm not criticizing Xavi. I'm praising him. Every player gets old and drops form... i'm just pointing out that he was the most important player for both NT and club. Both systems have fallen apart since his level has dropped. It can't be a coincidence.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by futbol on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:01 am

@sportsczy wrote:I'm not criticizing Xavi.  I'm praising him.  Every player gets old and drops form... i'm just pointing out that he was the most important player for both NT and club.  Both systems have fallen apart since his level has dropped.  It can't be a coincidence.


No, I understood your post and I agree. I just went off on a tangent a bit to highlight the real problem - the upper management of the club. No one has a clear sporting vision. They went from "Xavi can leave if he wishes" to Xavi starting in the Bernabeu within 2 months because he's apparently still the best we've got (or the coach is stupid which too would be on the management, they appointed him).

I have sympathy for Tata now more than ever. The management threw him under the bus and the man didn't want to take it and left. Hope people like free_cat enjoy it, we haven't had less than 50 % possession yet, all is well.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by eelir on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:22 am

There is a lot to be blamed here.

Upper management? Perhaps.

Enrique? Yes!

Most of the players? Definitely!

Enrique has proved he cant adjust the game when thing go south two times we faced a real opponent.

Most of our "star" players seam to have lost the ability to press completely. I can say this is Enriques fault, but Pep's biography and Enriques comments make me think we should go with fußbal's line up (couple of posts up) for at least next 3-4 games, and start including our "stars" again based on the merit they show on the training ground.
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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by alexjanosik on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:42 am

Fußball wrote:
@alexjanosik wrote:
Fußball wrote:


Yes, clearly. Bayern, Brazil, Netherlands, Real Madrid, 6 consecutive games against Atletico Madrid with 0 wins. What do these games all have in common? The same core players. What do they not have in common? The coach, there have been 4 different ones. LOL


But wasnt Enrique supposed to be different?The drill sergeant who was going to fix our positioning and pressing.What happened there?
The games you mentioned were different and none of them were this embarrassing.Tata had his faults but he never got schooled like this.
Enrique got the players in he wanted over the summer.If he cant get the result then and puts on a shocker,then yes the blame is entirely on him.


What are you talking about? This game was a carbon copy of last season's Bernabeu Clasico. Barca took the lead, Benzema should have scored 3 or more goals but because he's worse than Higuain/Falcao he only scored 1, Ronaldo scored a penalty, Barca's right side with Alves got raped by Di Maria/Marcelo, Madrid scored 3 goals. It was the same game except Barca didn't get 2 penalties and Messi missed from 5 yards.

Problem is the same as ever. Pique isn't Barca level, Alves gets beaten one on one 9 out of 10 times, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta are too slow and unphysical if they can't dominate games (which they can't do anymore), collective pressing non-existent.

I'd put blame on Lucho for the lack of collective workrate but he clearly, CLEARLY wants his team to do just that, he's talking about nothing else but the players aren't doing it anymore. Haven't done it under Tata, Tito or del Bosque either. Why would they? Pep was just the first one who saw it early, see his autobiagraphy. Iniesta has won 5 European Cups and a World Cup alongside half a dozen league titles and shared the top 3 Ballon d'Or podium for consecutive seasons. Isco is a youth player who wants to earn a starting spot at Madrid and Spain, he has no guaranteed place. That's why he puts in 7 tackles against Liverpool. Who does that at Barca? Mascherano and who else? Neymar already pulling rainbow flicks after 15 minutes of football. Summing up the attitude of the team. And no, it's not just Messi, even though he's the easiest target.


ter Stegen
Montoya Bartra Mathieu Alba
Mascherano
Rakitic Rafinha
Suarez Messi Neymar

The rest doesn't deserve to get on the field unless they die on the pitch and can't breath properly after 60 minutes. It's far from a world class team, it might win f all, but they won't annoy me as much as seeing Alves' and Pique's faces week in week out, Iniesta doing endless pirouettes with 0 end product, Busquets trying to shield the ball and draw a foul and getting his pocket picked and all the other things which I've seen a thousand times in the past 2 years. Bartra, Rakitic, Mascherano, Rafinha. They will all fight. If they don't we can start blaming Enrique.


Fußball wrote:
@alexjanosik wrote:
Fußball wrote:


Yes, clearly. Bayern, Brazil, Netherlands, Real Madrid, 6 consecutive games against Atletico Madrid with 0 wins. What do these games all have in common? The same core players. What do they not have in common? The coach, there have been 4 different ones. LOL


But wasnt Enrique supposed to be different?The drill sergeant who was going to fix our positioning and pressing.What happened there?
The games you mentioned were different and none of them were this embarrassing.Tata had his faults but he never got schooled like this.
Enrique got the players in he wanted over the summer.If he cant get the result then and puts on a shocker,then yes the blame is entirely on him.


What are you talking about? This game was a carbon copy of last season's Bernabeu Clasico. Barca took the lead, Benzema should have scored 3 or more goals but because he's worse than Higuain/Falcao he only scored 1, Ronaldo scored a penalty, Barca's right side with Alves got raped by Di Maria/Marcelo, Madrid scored 3 goals. It was the same game except Barca didn't get 2 penalties and Messi missed from 5 yards.

Problem is the same as ever. Pique isn't Barca level, Alves gets beaten one on one 9 out of 10 times, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta are too slow and unphysical if they can't dominate games (which they can't do anymore), collective pressing non-existent.

I'd put blame on Lucho for the lack of collective workrate but he clearly, CLEARLY wants his team to do just that, he's talking about nothing else but the players aren't doing it anymore. Haven't done it under Tata, Tito or del Bosque either. Why would they? Pep was just the first one who saw it early, see his autobiagraphy. Iniesta has won 5 European Cups and a World Cup alongside half a dozen league titles and shared the top 3 Ballon d'Or podium for consecutive seasons. Isco is a youth player who wants to earn a starting spot at Madrid and Spain, he has no guaranteed place. That's why he puts in 7 tackles against Liverpool. Who does that at Barca? Mascherano and who else? Neymar already pulling rainbow flicks after 15 minutes of football. Summing up the attitude of the team. And no, it's not just Messi, even though he's the easiest target.


ter Stegen
Montoya Bartra Mathieu Alba
Mascherano
Rakitic Rafinha
Suarez Messi Neymar

The rest doesn't deserve to get on the field unless they die on the pitch and can't breath properly after 60 minutes. It's far from a world class team, it might win f all, but they won't annoy me as much as seeing Alves' and Pique's faces week in week out, Iniesta doing endless pirouettes with 0 end product, Busquets trying to shield the ball and draw a foul and getting his pocket picked and all the other things which I've seen a thousand times in the past 2 years. Bartra, Rakitic, Mascherano, Rafinha. They will all fight. If they don't we can start blaming Enrique.


Once more you keep brushing over his pathetic tactics in this game.
Madrid have one of the most devastating wings in the world.
And yet he lets our fullbacks to the wolves leaving them completely unexposed.
I assume he must have thought something something along the lines of.
"Hmm,So I have got Neymar,Suarez and Messi upfront.What else do i need.I will just ask them to stay upfront and they will do their thing and win."
Why did he decide to leave all 3 players up top with no workrate?If they dont press then atleast ask the wide players to track back and cover the fullback.You cant get away with doing neither.
This isnt 1970.You cant get away with defending with 7 players( 6 and a half as Xavi is not very good) against a team like Madrid.The wings will inevitably get exposed and thats exactly what happened.Our fullbacks got double teamed all night long and they destroyed us down the wings.And yet Fraudrique does nothing.The solution was simple enough.
Answer me why Fraudrique did nothing and please dont go off on tangents again.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by alexjanosik on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:45 am

@sportsczy wrote:My two cents...  your managers don't adjust to game conditions ever.  If you have control, no problem.  But when you don't, you'd want a manager to adjust a few things.  For example, how in the world do you think defending with 7 (or 6 if you rightly say that Xavi can't defend) against a team like Madrid would work?  We scored 3 and it should have been 5 or 6.

I now realize the impact of an in-from Xavi.  Both NT and club have gone down the toilet since his level has dropped.

The Barca managers need to manage and stop arrogantly thinking that it's one way or the highway.  You can adjust within a possession-style system.


Precisely.He did nothing all game to change it.All he had to do was ask the wide forwards to track their fullbacks and not allow our fullbacks to be double teamed.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by alexjanosik on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:47 am

And your team is hilarious.You talk about effort and commitment and dying and then you include Fraudessi in the lineup and exclude Alves.The irony.
Watch the last 30 min of the match when we were down.There was only player from our side who was trying and that was Alves.
While your precious Fraudessi went into hiding.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by sportsczy on Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:44 am

Fußball wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:I'm not criticizing Xavi.  I'm praising him.  Every player gets old and drops form... i'm just pointing out that he was the most important player for both NT and club.  Both systems have fallen apart since his level has dropped.  It can't be a coincidence.
No, I understood your post and I agree. I just went off on a tangent a bit to highlight the real problem - the upper management of the club. No one has a clear sporting vision. They went from "Xavi can leave if he wishes" to Xavi starting in the Bernabeu within 2 months because he's apparently still the best we've got (or the coach is stupid which too would be on the management, they appointed him).

I have sympathy for Tata now more than ever. The management threw him under the bus and the man didn't want to take it and left. Hope people like free_cat enjoy it, we haven't had less than 50 % possession yet, all is well.
Yeah... but it would be foolish to try and replace Xavi with one player.  All time great players are irreplaceable.  Barca (and Spain) need to adjust their system (not change, adjust) to accentuate the strengths of the team without Xavi.  Barca's midfield is no longer dominant.  So what does the club need to do?  Upgrade the defense since the midfield can't protect it as well.  Also, focus on getting the ball to the forwards and allowing them to attack.  Neymar, Messi and Suarez are at their best when they are attacking the opponent... let them take players on.  Passing it around until there's the perfect opportunity no longer fits this team.  There's ways to play possession football with a measure of directness in the end.

None of this happens easily or immediately btw.  It took Madrid 7 years to fix its midfield after Zidane left.  We fixed our defense which allowed us to win along the way... also had great invidual talent.  But until this past year, our midfield was always weak.  Took 8 years for France NT to adjust too.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:33 pm

alex is right on the money with the wing situation. Fußbal i recall arguing with you about how that whole tactic would work when suarez, neymar and messi all starts.

yesterday was a clean demonstration of that, they don't work like wingers, and leave your fullback exposed to counters. Marcelo going forward had a field day running down that side.

It's funny because few years ago, we had CR wide and Alves was pummelling that side... tactically whatever LE cooked failed miserably. I don't think there was ever a point in the game you were able to stop us. Right after you scored you were already under assault from both wings because mathieu and alves had no support, and we took advantage of the mismatch all game long, with no adjustment from your side.

All and all, pathetic coaching from your side imo, the way LE apologized after the game suggests to me that he knew that situation could occur, but just did a lot of wishful thinking with no adjustment.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by Collblanc on Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:16 pm

Matthieu got the ball 10 times to the front, lost it 9 times. Beast. :bow:
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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by The Franchise on Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:45 pm

I cant read all the posts, I dont have the energy. I read enough to get people's general opinion. I wont argue any of them, bit like beating a dead horse in some cases, ill just say some thoughts and leave it there.

-Leftback is still a huge problem. Alba cant defend, Mathieu can. But Mathieu isnt good enough on the ball to play the position, a ton of lost balls because of poor passes. He must play CB for us from here on out, he is much better there. But Alba cant be trusted vs elites or even very good players (see Lucas for PSG). I dont know what we are going to do about this but if I know anything, I know this will continue to be a problem against the better sides. Still, I would have subbed Alba on at half time, the problem was so clear. But Enrique seems clueless.

-Spent 40m, still starting Pique and Mascherano. What more can I say? Pique's penalty was unlucky for him, but the rest of his performance was not. 3 VERY poor games in a row, 1 of them a big one. Time to hit the bench and think about what your doing. Mascherano did his best, but that third goal was just typical of him at CB.

-Iniesta and Messi didnt play well, Messi invisable and Iniesta looked off the pace. Hard to play well when your two best players are that poor.

-Busquets was doing very well up untill somewhere between 1-1 and 2-1. Some great passes between the lines and some great defending outwide on Isco (to cover up that poor defensive shape, more on that later). But sometime between the 1st and 2nd Madrid goals he fell apart and got worse and worse. I dont worry about him still though, what I saw at the start convinces me. But he has to stop the extra's, especially when its not going out way.

-Starting Suarez was a poor choice. If I was on here before the game, I was have said so then. I dont want to believe my favourite all time Barca player is a coward, especially not after the career he had. I will choose to believe he was naive, but not scared and took the easy option of starting a star name.

-I had great concerns about Suarez signing and already I am feeling "I told you". What kind of defensive shape are we expecting to have? Defending with a back 4 and 3 mid fielders only? Neymar was the only one remotely interested in helping out. However, this was even counter productive because he spent all his energy helping Mathieu (or helping in the middle and Iniesta helping out wide, again just like PSG, a shape which makes zero sense) and when he actually got the ball he was 20m inside his own half and already tired.

I get it, Suarez doesnt have the energy to track back after his 4 month absence....thats not his fault so to speak...but then what are we starting him for?

Everyone, maybe Enrique too, was too busy with "even at his worst, Suarez will give me than Pedro"..what nobody talked about was defending. Pedro would have got back and give us an actual defensive shape.

-Compare our defensive shape to Madrid's, its laughable. James and Isco did very little, but they worked really hard and got back into shape to give 2 banks of 4 and solid cover for Modric and Kroos. One of Cristiano or Benz trailed the play and came back to help overload whichever side the ball was on. A very good and simple plan. What was ours? Suarez and Messi stay high up conserving what little energy they have, Neymar (also our only counter attack threat aside from Messi) killing himself trying to get back to help 3 (un-athletic) midfielders trying to cover the entire width of the pitch.

-Nothing but praise to Madrid and Benzema in particular. He was fantastic for them and even with Cristiano doing nothing and wasting balls, they were by a distance the better side and 3-1 was more than fair. In fact, I was in the end happy Carlo started subbing their offensive players because it easily could of been 4 and 5.
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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by farfan on Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:05 pm

Fußball wrote:Calma. Vermaelen will be back soon.

it's bad news when your long awaited solution in defense is an arsenal flop and a perennial bench warmer .
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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by alexjanosik on Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:37 pm

@The Franchise wrote:I cant read all the posts, I dont have the energy. I read enough to get people's general opinion. I wont argue any of them, bit like beating a dead horse in some cases, ill just say some thoughts and leave it there.

-Leftback is still a huge problem. Alba cant defend, Mathieu can. But Mathieu isnt good enough on the ball to play the position, a ton of lost balls because of poor passes. He must play CB for us from here on out, he is much better there. But Alba cant be trusted vs elites or even very good players (see Lucas for PSG). I dont know what we are going to do about this but if I know anything, I know this will continue to be a problem against the better sides. Still, I would have subbed Alba on at half time, the problem was so clear. But Enrique seems clueless.

-Spent 40m, still starting Pique and Mascherano. What more can I say? Pique's penalty was unlucky for him, but the rest of his performance was not. 3 VERY poor games in a row, 1 of them a big one. Time to hit the bench and think about what your doing. Mascherano did his best, but that third goal was just typical of him at CB.

-Iniesta and Messi didnt play well, Messi invisable and Iniesta looked off the pace. Hard to play well when your two best players are that poor.

-Busquets was doing very well up untill somewhere between 1-1 and 2-1. Some great passes between the lines and some great defending outwide on Isco (to cover up that poor defensive shape, more on that later). But sometime between the 1st and 2nd Madrid goals he fell apart and got worse and worse. I dont worry about him still though, what I saw at the start convinces me. But he has to stop the extra's, especially when its not going out way.

-Starting Suarez was a poor choice. If I was on here before the game, I was have said so then. I dont want to believe my favourite all time Barca player is a coward, especially not after the career he had. I will choose to believe he was naive, but not scared and took the easy option of starting a star name.

-I had great concerns about Suarez signing and already I am feeling "I told you". What kind of defensive shape are we expecting to have? Defending with a back 4 and 3 mid fielders only? Neymar was the only one remotely interested in helping out. However, this was even counter productive because he spent all his energy helping Mathieu (or helping in the middle and Iniesta helping out wide, again just like PSG, a shape which makes zero sense) and when he actually got the ball he was 20m inside his own half and already tired.

I get it, Suarez doesnt have the energy to track back after his 4 month absence....thats not his fault so to speak...but then what are we starting him for?

Everyone, maybe Enrique too, was too busy with "even at his worst, Suarez will give me than Pedro"..what nobody talked about was defending. Pedro would have got back and give us an actual defensive shape.

-Compare our defensive shape to Madrid's, its laughable. James and Isco did very little, but they worked really hard and got back into shape to give 2 banks of 4 and solid cover for Modric and Kroos. One of Cristiano or Benz trailed the play and came back to help overload whichever side the ball was on. A very good and simple plan. What was ours? Suarez and Messi stay high up conserving what little energy they have, Neymar (also our only counter attack threat aside from Messi) killing himself trying to get back to help 3 (un-athletic) midfielders trying to cover the entire width of the pitch.

-Nothing but praise to Madrid and Benzema in particular. He was fantastic for them and even with Cristiano doing nothing and wasting balls, they were by a distance the better side and 3-1 was more than fair. In fact, I was in the end happy Carlo started subbing their offensive players because it easily could of been 4 and 5.


Agree except substituting Alba on.Sure he would have been better with the ball but they were killing us out wide by double teaming the fullback.Alba would have been killed.Mathieu did relatively well.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by The Franchise on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:11 pm

I dont think either are great solutions, with both you lose one thing and you gain another.

I understand, Mathieu can actually defend his position even if he gives the ball away 9 of every 10 passes. Whereas Alba himself gives the ball away almost as much and cant defend the position. So I understand.

But within Enrique's system (which I assume he wont change) I would have preferred Alba for 2 reasons, 1 being that he gives the away a bit less and the more we keep the ball, the less Madrid have it. Second to that, I dont know if you noticed but when Mathieu lost the ball, he gave up on it and got back to his position, even when he had the chance to instantly pressure and win it back. I think his mentality is still that of a Valencia player.

Also something else I noticed, in the second half, Messi especially, but also others..they stopped passing to him when he made runs forward. In the second goal, he ran forward, they didnt pass to him, we quickly ran out of options, Madrid countered and got a corner which they scored from. I think everyone has no problems passing to Alba and they always pass it in front for him to run onto. So a counter is harder to start.

If its me, I play 3 at the back for that game. Mathieu being a left of the back 3, but in Enrique's system I would have preferred Alba...and believe me, you wont find someone who rates Alba less than I do.
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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by The Franchise on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:14 pm

Oh and also, people I think mentioned Messi's miss from Suarez great crosss which would have made it 2-0 and therefore a different game. I agree, but there are 2 points to make there.

1. Benzema was very unlucky to hit the bar twice. We cant play the what if game.

2. More importantly, it was a good save from Iker. For me, the biggest mistake Messi made was sometime in the first half we made a great passing move, Xavi ran down the right, he was in on goal for a certain 1 v 1...Messi ignored him to dribble for no reason. That was Messi from last season, this "new" Messi should be playing that pass. I dont know if he missed Xavi, I dont think he did..he was just selfish on that play.
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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by Winter is Coming on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:04 pm

Thats typical Messi tho when he's close to breaking a record. He wanted it at Madrid, but he should've just been himself.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by futbol on Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:33 am

@alexjanosik wrote:

but they were killing us out wide by double teaming the fullback.Alba would have been killed.Mathieu did relatively well.


Typical armchair analysis as per usual, analysing theory rather than reality, followed by the typical hipster "sell Messi" conclusion. Fullbacks double-teamed is definitely not what happened. Let me show you what happened.



See the situation? If not put on your glasses, maybe you'll understand better. Suarez and Alves marking Isco. Xavi and Busquets on Marcelo. It's a 4 vs. 2 situation. Job of the coach is done here, he's ensured numerical superiority, more than necessariy even. You want to see what's happening next however? Here we go:



Marcelo walzing past Xavi and Busquets with ease. My grandma could walz past Xavi and Busquets at this point so why wouldn't Marcelo? Think this would have happened with Rakitic and Mascherano instead? PU-LEASE. Rolling Eyes

Madrid's double woodwork chance? Let's take a look.



Ronaldo vs. Xavi and Alves. 2 vs. 1. Numerical superiority ensured. You want too see what's happening next however?



Little sidestep and off goes the cross which Alves can't stop. Alves couldn't keep my grandad from crossing so why would he Ronaldo? Mascherano gets expectedly beaten in the air by Benzema as per usual.

Fast forward to the situation for Madrid's first goal:



2 vs. 2. All it needs is basic communication. Alves needs to read Marcelo's run (or Iniesta needs to tell him) while Iniesta stays with James. Simplest defensive move ever. What happens however is that both Alves and Iniesta are ball watching the same player when the ball is at James' feet, Marcelo runs free, Alves reacts too late and trails and Pique throws himself to the ground and handballs a simple cross a 6 year old would clear by just staying on his feet.

I could go on and on but what's the point? Same people applying the same mantra over and over again to every bad game. "Sell Messi, sack the coach, Alba can't defend". Luckily for Cesc he got out of here. He would have been scapegoated so hard in this one if he had played. Laughing Imagine if he pulled what Iniesta did. rofl

What's happened in this game is simple. The player material on the pitch can't defend. They don't even communicate during the simplest defensive moves. Lucho's biggest mistake was the lineup. But I don't blame him. Xavi's performances in La Liga can really deceive people that he still might have it if rested properly.

Realizing that Busquets is useless when the team isn't totally dominating isn't easy to grasp given his acomplishments. Slow, no muscle, useless in the air. A DM who only excells on the ball can only be a world class DM in a heavily ball dominant possession team which Barca isn't anymore. Peak Xaviesta is gone and won't return.

Iniesta is past it since Martinez ruined him in 12/13. Also not easy to grasp but it is what it is.

Pique's uselessness is well documented so no point dicussing this.

He'll get it right eventually. Too early not to. He'll learn a lot from this. Rather get exposed now than later. People need to stop living in dream land however with statements like "Mascherano can't play DM for Barca". This holds true for peak Xaviesta Barca where he would have slowed down every move and got exposed in tight spaces. But that Barca doesn't exist anymore. We aren't lacking technique in the buildup. We are lacking muscle, grit, speed and balls. Mascherano has it. Busquets doesn't.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by Donuts on Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:41 am

still too early to count enrique out though, he showed us that he changes the names when things don't work out, after psg, mathieu was installed in the lb position for example we must see what the next step is
if we regress then so be it but so long as we're changing and trying to find something that fits i'll give it some time.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by Doc on Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:18 am

@Futbol
For both the 2nd and 3rd scene in your (personally) lovely post, yes, proper awareness, communication and closing down were really lacking. But the 1st scene is sort of different. You can say that Mascherano and Rakitic would have done better and I feel they would have but sometimes, genuine skill on the ball can throw a wrench in any tactical set up.

Also, even the most pessimistic of Cules would agree the 1st half was a decent to good one for Barcelona. The 2nd half is where the meltdown really occurred considering your post only had 1st half highlights. Even I, with my bad eyesight saw the lack of assistance for the full backs. Not that excuses Dani Alves' performance.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 3 - FC Mehcelona 1

Post by futbol on Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:00 am

Referee transitioning back in position quicker than Xavi and Iniesta.



Laughing

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