The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:44 pm

Exactly lol.

I'd take a healthy Rose led Chicago over Golden State anyway.

But not over a healthy Dallas, San Antonio and OKC (yes they are making the playoffs and yes they are going to be a bitch to get through)

Don't think people should underestimate Portland and Memphis either even though they continue to do so.

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Post by dmize Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:47 pm

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/conversation/_/id/4594934

...

rofl ROFL
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:50 pm

Why is this a debate lol? People can make jokes about 76ers all they want but fact is they have like 12 NBA players where as Kentucky maybe has 4 or 5 if that.

Wroten would go off lol, these guys have graduated through college to the pros for a reason. As a rule the pro team would always win imo.
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Post by McAgger Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:07 pm

You guys jelly we be winning it this year if Pop gives us his blessing Proud
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Post by The Franchise Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:12 pm

Best players in each position, right now are?


Best performers 10-12 (?) games in, in each position are?

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Post by McAgger Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:15 pm

best performers top 5

Curry
Klay
LeBron
Davis
Cousins

I have to have a think over the overall best in each position. Other than LeBron, it's a tough one.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:45 pm

I disagree on Klay tbh, fine with the rest although Lebron hasn't been great either but who else at SF is there lol?

Maybe Tyreke or Hayward lol.
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Post by McAgger Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:56 pm

Who would you put ahead of Klay though?

Wade? Laughing Kobe? Laughing
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:05 am

Harden, I know it's fashionable to hate him but he's by far the best 2 guard in the league not called Wade/Kobe.

Defence isn't even in a factor as there's only one game changing 2 guard in the league defensively and his name is Jimmy Butler and he's nowhere Harden offensively.

Klay is a decent defender but this notion that he's a lock down defender is utter nonsense.

I would have included DeRozan in the discussion but considering Butler made him his bitch I can't in good conscience do that.

Kobe too but he's surrounded by so much shite it's hard to rate him properly.
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Post by McAgger Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:34 am

Defense isn't a factor rofl

Harden is probably the worst defender in his position if not in all of basketball.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:34 am

Harden vs Klay is an intresting one which is gathering some steam.

I dunno, I like Klay alot..but he cant create his own shot to the level I like from the SG position.

He "can" create his own shot, dont mistake me for saying he cant..its just there he isnt nearly the isolation play a Harden is. Its actually a positive aswell as negative, but in a bubble, it makes Harden the superior offensive player. Also we cant ignore Harden is a much better passer.

But I have to say, his defence is so bad..and Klay is one of the better wing defenders in the league. It makes it close. I still edge towards Harden, even though I truly hate the way he plays.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:57 am

Don't call me James wrote:Defense isn't a factor rofl

Harden is probably the worst defender in his position if not in all of basketball.


No he isn't he just doesn't try lol and despite that he still averages more blocks and steals than any other shooting guard.

The reason it isn't a factor is because Harden is much better offensively compared to Klay being better defensively.

I'm also quite sick and tired of how overrated Klay is getting, he's a perfect complimentary piece but let's be real he's where he is right now because of Curry.

Replace him with Harden on the Rockets and they are so inferior it's not even funny, he just doesn't do an awful lot besides shooting the basketball.

I'm also getting sick of hearing how great of defender he is.... Why what has he done? He doesn't lock anyone down for any extended period of time.

He's not better defensively than Wes Matthews or Nic Batum and there's many more I could name, speaking of Wes Matthews he's closer to Klay than Klay is to Harden.

Oh and btw why doesn't anyone ever mention Ellis in these discussions? He's so much better than Klay it's not funny.

INB4 hater.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:02 pm

BTW you can all disagree and tell me I'm wrong I really couldn't care less.

As far as I'm concerned he's the most overrated player in the league and I'm not going to waive from that opinion.
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Post by Guest Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:34 pm

Yeah, but having more blocks and steals doesn't mean anything without the effort. I don't watch a ton of basketball these days, but I've seen the videos dmize has posted on Harden. For all those steals/blocks, he sure gives up a lot of easy buckets. You shouldn't just discount defense like that in one post and then throw out some statistics that don't prove the point. A large aspect of defense is effort and while you can say he is lazy, that doesn't change the fact that he is a piss poor defender.

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Post by The Franchise Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:18 pm

Matthews and Ellis are underrated in this btw, I agree with that and I think they are a similar level to Klay. They both would put up more points in different situations.

I also agree that replace Klay with Harden on the Rockets and they are a considerably worse team.

I would say Klay is the best defender of this group of guys though. I dont think he is a "lockdown" defender, I dont think he is as good as Igoudala, or Leonard, or Tony Allen...but he is better than Ellis, slightly better than Matthews due to his length and quite alot better than Harden.

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Post by McAgger Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:25 pm

Whilst agree with the consensus on the defensive end, Klay's offense is getting massively underrated here. I only have to let the rest of the season speak for my stance.

Btw having watched a lot of Ellis and Klay, Ellis is not better in anything than Klay other than creating his own shot. The fact that he's like 6'2 for a SG already puts him at a disadvantage.

DeRozan over a lot of the names mentioned here. Heck maybe even Beal. Specially since Matthews is getting mentioned.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:29 pm

Creating your own shot is kinda REALLY important though.

Like what "else" is there on the offensive end?

I can imagine Mole saying, the only thing Klay is better than Ellis at is spot up shooting.
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Post by McAgger Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:38 pm

You speak as though Klay is ONLY a spot up shooter. He's improved immensely on this aspect of his game since coming to the league. Hell Kerr has him running the floor a lot in his system and has Curry off the ball.

His creativity and passing is underrated and the fact that he can get a shot off a dribble as well.

Ellis is a UBER volume shooter. Klay is a better shooter than Ellis off the dribble or spot up, I don't care what you think I've seen a lot more more of both to know how inconsistent and frustrating Ellis' shot is. Ellis can penetrate the lane better, I'll give you that.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:45 pm

BTW I was going to mention DeRozan and Beal both with better all round games than Klay although I will be fair I want to see more from both of them before I commit to the idea they are actually better.

Also about Ellis he's not the erratic chucker he was in Golden State, he's actually really efficient now and let's be honest is straight unguardable at times due to his penetrating and mid range game.

One last thing Klay is not just a spot up shooter no, but his all round game isn't good enough for me to take him over someone who effects the game in a lot of other different ways.

But like I said there probably isn't anyone I'd take over him to partner with Curry but just in general themes there are.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:49 pm

Now for the real reason I came into the thread...

We put a lot of pieces together that wasn't here last year," James said. "I don't want to say 'rebuilding.' I think [when] people think of rebuilding, they think of starting from the ground up. But we are a team that wasn't together last year so [we have] the same struggles as the [Philadelphia] 76ers or as the Miami Heat right now and us, we have some of the same qualities as far as putting new guys together.

"It's my biggest test," James said Friday morning in advance of the Cavs' game against the Washington Wizards (ESPN, 8 p.m.). "My patience isn't [endless]. I have a low tolerance for things of this nature. So it's something I'm working on as well, which I knew from the beginning that that was going to be my biggest test to see how much patience I got with the process.

Dude needs to shut the *bleep* up honestly....

Comparing it to Philly and Miami is downright ridiculous and pathetic and the stuff about his patience is also pathetic when he's been crap more often than he's been good.
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Post by dmize Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:48 pm

I still think Thompson is a suped up 3&D guy, which is a great thing to have.

Harden is better offensively and overall the better player but his game is just so horrid to watch, he's a turnstyle on defense, flops like a fish outta water, has zero game between 5 and 22 feet. I just wouldn't want him on my team. No team with him starting will EVER win a title, which is why I laugh when people say OKC should've kept him. Even if they got back to the Finals, he'd fold like a la-z-boy just like last time.

But this discussion is really an indictment on the weakness of the SG position right now.

Honestly if it's for one game, I would seriously consider Wade still, but probably take Thompson.

Although I did have to laugh at the quote on TNT last night. Ernie says something like "when Wade gets healthy". Charles: "He’s not gonna get healthy. Old people don’t get healthy. They die." Shocked Laughing

Brad Beal if he keeps progressing is the guy I have my eye on to be the best SG 2-3 years from now.

I agree with Mole(was it?) about Jimmy Butler, the way he's been playing he deserves mention. He really impressed me offensively last night against the Kings, we already knew about his defense. Been a big fan of his since Marquette.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:07 pm

I have been hyping Butler quite a bit so probably lol.

If he keeps this up he's going to be in the discussion, not many SG's who straight bully people in the post like he does nowadays.

Not to mention he's been fantastic at cutting to the basket, gotta keep it going though.
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Post by McAgger Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:17 pm

I would have agreed with you on Thompson being a suped up 3&D guy last season but his progression this season has been a spectacle. I don't know how often you guys watch us play with regularity but I have to disagree because it simply isn't true this season. Moal, when you say overall game, you ONLY talk about offense. Harden's overall offensive game maybe more polished than Klay but when you actually bring in the other 50% of basketball in play (defense) Klay really surpasses Harden.

The fact that no one would take Harden over Klay to put in their championship team already speaks volumes.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:43 pm

Basically every SG in the game is better defensively than Harden yet the ones who are more well rounded than Klay are not mentioned as better.

If someone said DeRozan or whatever was better than Harden you'd look at me like I'm crazy.

As for Championship team it's ironic because Klay was straight ass in the playoffs last year so if we are going to call out Harden for that ( as we should he's been awful at times)  then so we should Klay.

BTW I only talk offense because I don't consider Klay to be this game changer there like he's claimed to be. He's decent/good there like Matthews is but he's not a lockdown defender like Butler is and Butler hasn't proven for long enough he has the offence to be compared.

Also I have watched Golden State this year, maybe 4 or 5 times and he has improved but not to the extent where his offensive game is more well rounded than Ellis, DeRozan, Beal and so on.

I don't feel we should ignore Wade and Kobe as well, they are still doing work because they are old don't mean they don't exist. It's the same when best PFs are discussed are nobody mentions Duncan and Dirk I really don't get that.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:47 pm

Don't call me James wrote:You speak as though Klay is ONLY a spot up shooter. He's improved immensely on this aspect of his game since coming to the league. Hell Kerr has him running the floor a lot in his system and has Curry off the ball.

His creativity and passing is underrated and the fact that he can get a shot off a dribble as well.

Ellis is a UBER volume shooter. Klay is a better shooter than Ellis off the dribble or spot up, I don't care what you think I've seen a lot more more of both to know how inconsistent and frustrating Ellis' shot is. Ellis can penetrate the lane better, I'll give you that.

Mate, I clearly said I WAS NOT saying Klay is just a spot up shooter.

And your talking about Ellis in Golden State, not Ellis in Dallas. There is a difference. Its called a system. He frustrates NOBODY in Dallas.
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Post by McAgger Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:52 pm

Well at the end of the day it's all subjective. We can agree to disagree.

You can't tell me my opinion is wrong and yours is right when really the difference isn't that big at all either way.
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