Let's talk about the 3-4-3

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Curtinho on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:24 pm

Which is why I said 'the last few games' and 'if he can carry his form'.

Though I'm not sure if you are joking or not with the fickle thing, given the source. hmm

Let's not forget Lucas has had his fair share of stinkers. Meh against the likes of Leicester, Swansea (a match we dominated), Arsenal and was woeful against Basel. I would like to play whichever one is in better form, and to be honest Allen is just now starting to gain confidence again. Lucas will be returning from injury and we've seen before what he can look like in those cases (Allen also).

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Art Morte on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:34 pm

Allen has more energy and tries to do more with the ball, has better close control, so I might prefer him to Lucas, but perhaps start Lucas in some tougher games. But I hope both will be put down a notch in the pegging order by a new CM signed in the summer (plus hopefully Can if he's moved to midfield).
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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:35 pm

But that's not what we were talking about.

We were talking about our overall best starting Xi with everyone available and Lucas would get on that team every day of the week and twice on Sundays over Allen.

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Art Morte on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:45 pm

I don't know, I don't think Lucas does anything special, especially not in a two-man central midfield. The only reason I'm not sure which one would be better is the fact that Allen's not good enough to start for us, either.
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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:49 pm

Morty we've been down this road before. I know you don't rate Lucas that high. But the guy is top 3 midfield enforcer in the league. His job goes unnoticed but the difference he makes is so huge that it's scary to compare when he plays and when he doesn't.

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Curtinho on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:53 pm

I would start Allen on current form over Lucas. Whether he can keep that form up is another story, but the talent is there. Also, on his current form he's absolutely good enough to start for us.

Also Allen was great against Southampton, and against Besiktas as well.

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:50 pm

No he wasn't. Go read over the Soton thread and you'll get a gist of how the majority felt over his performance at St. Mary's.

And please quit using the word great for every performance. Zidane was great in 2006 World Cup against Brazil. What Allen did vs Soton, well it sure as hell wasn't great.

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Helmer on Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:47 pm

you cant tell me that Lucas would have done the same thing what Allen did against City Laughing the fact is, we tend to dominate the ball in recent games and Allen is a better option than Lucas because teams are defending deep against us.

Swansea game will be interesting because Rodgers will most likely play counter attacking tactics. So my eyes will be on Allen if he can perform that role when we are playing such tactics.

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Curtinho on Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:36 pm

So he was brilliant against City though? Ok. Ronaldinho was brilliant against Madrid when they have him a standing ovation, stop throwing around the term brilliant for good performances.

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Red Alert on Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:46 am

1. Firstly, you guys are really cute. But with all due respect, please stop. Although I did laugh at this...


El Cujo wrote:So he was brilliant against City though? Ok. Ronaldinho was brilliant against Madrid when they have him a standing ovation, stop throwing around the term brilliant for good performances.

@Don't call me James wrote:

And please quit using the word great for every performance. Zidane was great in 2006 World Cup against Brazil. What Allen did vs Soton, well it sure as hell wasn't great.




OH NO HE DID NOT JUST GO THERE

eco smileeco smileeco smile


2. Lucas >>>>>>>>>>> Allen. Joe is a nice tidy squad player who's suited to a pass and move sort of role, but if you're going to compare the two in that "controller role" it's like comparing Xabi Alonso with Charlie Adam in terms of quality. lmao

And Allen is just as useless as Lucas going forward, so the only thing "Welsh Xavi" has over Leiva is redundant because well... Joe's not very good in the final third. (inb4 he scores a 30 yarder against his former club)

3.
HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:you cant tell me that Lucas would have done the same thing what Allen did against City Laughing the fact is, we tend to dominate the ball in recent games and Allen is a better option than Lucas because teams are defending deep against us.

Swansea game will be interesting because Rodgers will most likely play counter attacking tactics. So my eyes will be on Allen if he can perform that role when we are playing such tactics.


You are aware Lucas has always been a top 3 / MOTM for us when playing against City right? Laughing

You make it sound like Lucas can't pass ffs.

The only flaw Lucas has is he's totally headless when it comes to playing in the final third. Apart from that he's arguably the best anchor/DM in the league. The only player that rivals him is Matic, really.

He's great at linking the whole team together too, and he plays it to the final third quick, but yeah, just no idea what happens once he roams forward. You wouldn't believe he'd started as an attacking midfielder. Laughing

Swansea won't be interesting at all. Monk is arguably the worst manager in the league and always bends over backwards for old mate. You can play our reserves and we'd get 3 points...


4. Sort of feel like this, now.


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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Curtinho on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:21 pm

Lucas is a great anchor, but Joe Allen definitely plays the ball quicker, and does at times have better forward passes (which we've seen more of as his confidence has grown).

For what it's worth over the last 4 games Allen leads the team in tackles + interceptions (Lovren is 2nd, and Can is 3rd) as well as passing %. Anyone with eyes can see how on form he's been for us during his current run, and if he can keep that up I'm all for giving him as much playing time as he can get.

Lucas will need easing back into the squad anyway coming back from injury, and if he's anything like the form he's had before after injury I don't want him being given the starting spot when we're in the home stretch of the season trying to win the FA Cup and make top 4.

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:35 pm

Monk the worst manager in the league rofl

how in this world has he done the double over LVG, beat Wenger and Koeman as well ? hmm

not to mention he gave us one of the hardest matches in our 11-game winning run in that 4-3 win at Anfield...I thought he was supposed to fold and throw the match for his old mate ? drunken

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by Helmer on Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:01 pm

no any blind man can tell that our speed in the midfield passing is better than when Lucas plays the same role. I would tell you how I comapre them

Both: good at that role

Lucas: defensively more disciplined and has more sense of positioning as a defensive midfielder. He does play forward passes but he does it slow and you can see other midfielders dropping deep when Lucas is playing because of the less movement in the midfield.

Allen: he does what he did against City. His passing through the midfield line is better and faster than Lucas. The reason is also because there is more movement in the midfield when Allen is playing. Against City, how many times two-three players were pressing Allen and he still managed to get the ball through to Coutinho or Lallana. Another problem with Allen is he is inconsistent. Highly that too !! And I am sure Allen is going to disappear soon with his form. He just cant keep it.

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Re: Let's talk about the 3-4-3

Post by iftikhar on Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:48 pm

Would you prefer if Rodgers keep fielding the same starting XI for the reminder of the season? We will have between 11 & 14 games till the season ends.
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