Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Twoism on Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:03 am

I see no point whatsoever to discuss tactic at this point, the attitude of the players was absolutely wrong and unprofessional. I can forgive if the team play the wrong plan but give it all, I can forgive if the team get smashed by elite team but dare to try. I do not forgive the way we played this game, everybody was walking around, watching balls, no intensity, no desire. Call it complacence, arrogance or whatever but Arsenal players as the team do not have the right to be, we haven't accomplish dick to play the game with that mentality.

The four players I give it a pass are Bellerin, Le Coq, Sanchez & Giroud, that's right Giroud. Sure he's donkey, he pissed me off but he got into position and tried and failed. And the other three, one youngster who just got into 1st team and fighting against 2 senior players for the spot, one also got into 1st team after 5 god damn years and had everything to prove, and one new genuine fighter through and through. But you know what, wait for sometimes once these players settle in and cement their places, they will turn into this Arsenal mindset like the rest of the team, a god damn virus spread around.

It's unbelievable how the team pissed their goddamn pants whenever they play against elite teams ( boohoo City game) and come to lesser teams ( mind you Monaco is not lesser team as they're top in their group), they thought they own a *bleep* world.

In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king, that's us. We're king of average and mediocrity.

Come June, 4th spot secured, maybe has a shot at FA cup, all is well once again.

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by sportsczy on Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 pm

@Dani...  high pressure doesn't really work against Monaco though because they expect it and are designed for it.  Namely, Carrasco, Kurzawa, Bernardo Silva, Martial and Dirar can all fly.  They send balls into space and count on those guys to outrun their opponent or hit Berbatov who dezones and then he sends those guys into space.  It works pretty well although it's very ugly to watch.

The thing in this game though is that Carrasco, Kurzawa and Bernardo Silva couldn't start because of knocks.  So you had a bunch of kids (toure is 18, martial 19, etc.) that, although fast, aren't very assured...  when he saw that lineup, Wenger should have tried to press.

The other problem though is that Ozil and Cazorla are crap defenders and can't press.  Arsenal lineup up a bunch of AMs and strikers with only 1 CM.  I never understood that.  You can't have any type of shape if you're that unbalanced.  When i saw Cazorla-Ozil-Sanchez-Welbeck-Giroud all lined up together, i laughed tbh...

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Jay29 on Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:36 pm

In fairness we're depleted in central midfield at the moment. Flamini, Arteta and Ramsey are all injured, Chamberlain had only just come back from injury and Wilshere is perma-crocked. The only other option we had bar Cazorla was Rosicky. Maybe he should have started instead of Ozil.

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Lex on Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:06 pm

Cazorla has been a monster recently in the middle. No reason why Ozil should just waltz back there

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by El Gunner on Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:14 pm

@Lex wrote:Cazorla has been a monster recently in the middle. No reason why Ozil should just waltz back there
No shit

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by The Franchise on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:48 am

@sportsczy wrote:@Dani...  high pressure doesn't really work against Monaco though because they expect it and are designed for it.  Namely, Carrasco, Kurzawa, Bernardo Silva, Martial and Dirar can all fly.  They send balls into space and count on those guys to outrun their opponent or hit Berbatov who dezones and then he sends those guys into space.  It works pretty well although it's very ugly to watch.

The thing in this game though is that Carrasco, Kurzawa and Bernardo Silva couldn't start because of knocks.  So you had a bunch of kids (toure is 18, martial 19, etc.) that, although fast, aren't very assured...  when he saw that lineup, Wenger should have tried to press.

The other problem though is that Ozil and Cazorla are crap defenders and can't press.  Arsenal lineup up a bunch of AMs and strikers with only 1 CM.  I never understood that.  You can't have any type of shape if you're that unbalanced.  When i saw Cazorla-Ozil-Sanchez-Welbeck-Giroud all lined up together, i laughed tbh...

Well first of all, are you saying Arsenal should have pressed or not?

Second, if they are prepared for it or not doesnt really matter to me. We have a different philosophical opinion here I think. If you press a team well, not even their long balls have accuracy...they dont have the time to look up, choose a target and generate the needed backlift for the pass.

No doubt I agree about the make up of Arsenal's squad.

Anyway, I agree with those who talked down the meaning of tactics in this game. Yes, attitude was a bigger problem, like I said, before you even get to tactics or team selection you have to start with the right mentality for the match.
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by sportsczy on Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:34 am

I don' think Wenger should have pressed against the typical Monaco team... which he obviously didn't prepare. That part was right. HOWEVER, once he saw the starting XI that Monaco was forced to play, he should have scrapped his initial plan and tried for the press.

Pressing Toulalan, Kondogbia and Moutinho is a waste of time since all of them are technically good... but you take Toulalan out of there, who is their best player this season imo, then it becomes feasible. The backup Bakayoko is injured... so they played Fabinho as a DM. Fabinho is not a CM.

this game showed how tactically rigid Wenger can be tbh. Obvious pre-game and in-game adjustment were ignored.

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Adit on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:29 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I don' think Wenger should have pressed against the typical Monaco team... which he obviously didn't prepare. That part was right. HOWEVER, once he saw the starting XI that Monaco was forced to play, he should have scrapped his initial plan and tried for the press.

Pressing Toulalan, Kondogbia and Moutinho is a waste of time since all of them are technically good... but you take Toulalan out of there, who is their best player this season imo, then it becomes feasible. The backup Bakayoko is injured... so they played Fabinho as a DM. Fabinho is not a CM.

this game showed how tactically rigid Wenger can be tbh. Obvious pre-game and in-game adjustment were ignored.


Excellent post,but one thing. When ever people say something about wenger and his tactics it is usually like this "He is tactically rigid'', ''tactically stubborn'' lol....no need to sugar coat his shit tactics like that. He is tactically inept, thats it.

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Sri on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:14 pm

^ Lolwut. There is a big difference between being stubborn and being inept. Wenger is definitely the former, not the later. And a 'big difference' is not 'sugarcoating'.
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by MJ on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:16 pm

srigooner wrote:^ Lolwut. There is a big difference between being stubborn and being inept. Wenger is definitely the former, not the later. And a 'big difference' is not 'sugarcoating'.

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Sri on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:19 pm

AW does prepare tactically before a game. The wins are typically swept under the carpet, because he ends up losing the big games anyway. Anyone remember how many article propped up after the win against City? I don't think so.

What he does frustrate with is putting too much faith into players, who collectively have the tactically astuteness of Theo Walcott times 2. His 'philosophy' is to let players have the freedom of doing what they are comfortable during the game - and these retards don't know when to defend a lead and when to press for more. That is what AW should be telling them from the sidelines, which clearly doesn't seem to happen often enough. Hence we send in Gabriel as a third CB with a 2-0 lead in the 85' and almost end up with a 2-2 draw. Probably he should hold a huge banner and trumpets and stuff to make these retards realize switches in tactics or something Laughing
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by izzy on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:20 pm

srigooner wrote:^ Lolwut. There is a big difference between being stubborn and being inept. Wenger is definitely the former, not the later. And a 'big difference' is not 'sugarcoating'.


I wouldn't call him stubborn..... decade+ and stubborn?

Nah. He's leaning towards inept.
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Sri on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:47 pm

Decade+ what? We aren't trophyless any more :coffee:

If anything, look at how much he has been tinkering with the formations in the last decade. Invincibles and 4-4-2 counters to tiki-taka-light to Fabregas-based-system to 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1 to 4-1-4-1, each of which was theoretically tailored to the squad at his disposal. That is not ineptitude. The lack of a plan B is a lack of flexibility, a.k.a stubborn.
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by izzy on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:53 pm

Decade of reaching the point of inept.

You point out the formations.... what about the way he has used the personnel in these formations?

A decade+ of Arsenal fans complaining about not having a strong CB, a ball winning DM, an accomplished striker and a commanding GK.

What good does changing the formations every other time if you know you don't have the personel out there to pull off wht you envision? The tactics will mean jack-shit if you don't have the players you want to pull it off.

Surely Wenger knows this right? A decade+..... it would seem he doesn't.

That's not stubbornness. That's being Inept. Especially since it is a decade+ of the same complaints.
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Sri on Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:50 pm

Let's not base our discussion on people complaining ffs, there are always reasons to complain. I have been an Arsenal fan in that decade+ that you talk about.

His formations were not borne from whims, but based on the resources he had at his disposal (in terms of players). Each of them had varying levels of success. He doesn't change on a game-by-game basis and at some level, that is understandable. You can't expect players to adapt to a different style/formation in each game - although that is what you have to do if you base your tactics adaptively on a game-by-game basis.

Instead of such a opponent-driven approach, AW takes a 'philosophy' approach, where he creates a framework (formation) which best suits a majority of his players and he expects them to do the in-game adaptation. The formation resulted from the squad he had in each season, not the other way around.

Let's not mix the issue of buying players with tactics. Who we bought, or didn't buy, in transfers markets, is a separate can of worms. The question here is has AW tactically used his available resources to the best.

Again: his flaw is not being oblivious to tactics (i.e., inept) but not being flexible in changing things (pro/re)actively.

As a strategy researcher, I have a pretty clear idea of what I am talking about btw Wink
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Raptorgunner on Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:42 pm

Why do Arsenal feel stuck under Arsene Wenger?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/31662274

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by sportsczy on Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:40 am

how many times has Arsenal had a top 3 squad in PL over the past 10 years?  This is the first season where i felt Arsenal had a proper chance to compete for the title...  but Wenger's teams have never under achieved in this span.  They haven't over achieved either.  Being 3rd or 4th in PL and top 16 in Europe is/was exactly what they deserve(d) based on the squad's talent.

So you can't call Wneger inept.  In fact, he always gets the expected value out of his squad...  fans of his such as myself were just spoiled because at Monaco and his first 10 years at Arsenal, he was able to get the club to overachieve at certain points.

Something you should all realize:  the Monaco of today relies heavily on its youth academy.  The academy you see today was developed by Wenger when he was there 20 year ago... he organized it and infused his philosophy.  Monaco were smart enough to maintain it after his departure.

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Sri on Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:17 am

Sports Proud
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by FRANTIC on Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:15 pm

I've got one eye firmly on this return leg. Was having a chat with some colleagues at work today and few seem confident maybe it was the Utd result but the theory is if we score 2 goals early it puts us in the drivers seat. I'd take 0-2 at half time
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by El Gunner on Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:36 pm

Even if we go 3-0 up, we all know it just takes that one goal for Monaco to mount the pressure on us and then we crack Laughing
I don't have much optimism for this one tbh. Just like in previous years we messed up the first leg. And we need to have a serious debate about that. Why do we always cock-up the first leg? Fault lies with both players and Wenger definitely, but what exactly is doing this?

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by MJ on Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:58 pm

Even if Monaco score, we still need three goals.

We've got nothing to lose, just like the last few comebacks we had to make.

Don't know about why we go into the first legs like they're training sessions but it is what it is right now.

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Raptorgunner on Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:36 pm

We have nothing to lose as MJ said. I believe we will score goals and who knows maybe even qualify.

I will watch the match without any worries, lets make history again.

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by El Gunner on Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:52 pm

Love the sig Rapz Razz

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Sina on Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:33 pm

Ramsey is Back(touch wood)so there is A chance for us
COYG bounce

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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by FRANTIC on Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:46 pm

We've done the unthinkable before.

Very Happy

Who remembers think it was 2003 when we lost 0-3 to an Inter Milan side who hadn't conceded a single European or domestic goal they was fire one month later Arsenal went to the San Siro and scored 5! I know it wasn't a KO game. But we've raised a few Eyebrows before.

was one of my greatest nights in the Champions League that was still remember all the scorers goal by goal. Incredible.

Can't believe we threw that away against Chelsea in the Q/F who actually went out in the Semis to off all teams....Monaco! !

We should of won it that year that was our golden chance. At least we went on to win the League unbeaten. Which in a way just makes you think even more we should of won the Champions league that season. Only Monaco and Porto stood in our way if Wayne Bridge didn't get that 86th minute goal @ Highbury
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Re: Arsenal 1 - 3 Monaco

Post by Raptorgunner on Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:40 am

@FRANTIC wrote:We've done the unthinkable before.

Very Happy

Who remembers think it was 2003 when we lost 0-3 to an Inter Milan side who hadn't conceded a single European or domestic goal they was fire one month later Arsenal went to the San Siro and scored 5! I know it wasn't a KO game. But we've raised a few Eyebrows before.

was one of my greatest nights in the Champions League that was still remember all the scorers goal by goal. Incredible.

Can't believe we threw that away against Chelsea in the Q/F who actually went out in the Semis to off all teams....Monaco! !


I know we can make History.Proud Thumbs up

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