UEFA Coefficient development for the next seasons

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Post by S Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:15 pm

El Shaarawy wrote:But the with the addition of a CL berth to the EL winner, that gives teams in EL more of an incentive, no?


I am not arguing about that.

My main gripe was how the likes of Porto and Benfica, especially the latter, were waltzing into Pot 1 through EL performances.The change in the seeding system just balances things by a bit.

Champions league pots should be decided mainly by CL performances.Ideally i would've wanted a greater disparity between CL and EL points allocation but that doesnt look like it will happen anytime soon.

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Post by breva Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:55 am

It would be a little unfair if they changed the weight of Europa League since Serie A lost a place because their clubs did not consider its weight before and now seem to be taking it seriously. I'm not sure but after today, Serie will top La Liga in coefficient points for this 2014-2015 year, at least until the next games. It gets tricky because the points gained for wins and draws are divided by the number of teams in European competition at the beginning of the season. So with only 6 teams at the beginning Serie A points are divided by 6 while La Liga points are divided by 7. This week Serie A got 5 points and La Liga got 4 points.
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Post by rwo power Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:59 am

I thing the weight of the EL points is fine as otherwise the status quo about which league can get how many points for the general UEFA coefficient would be more or less edged in stone and no one could really move up and down as the CL would get disproportional more points. With the current weight, *all* teams in both EL and CL need to take things seriously if they want their league to move up.
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Post by nasir6371 Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:26 am

I agree that it would not be possible for smaller leagues to move up if the CL/EL had different point value especially for a league that get 1 spot in for the CL starting in qualifying rounds.


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Post by zizzle Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:32 am

Just take a CL spot from a scrub league and give to it Serie A. Problem solved

Ps: by a scrub league i dont mean the EPL, despite what the results suggest
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Post by marottalad Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:21 am

S wrote:Not to sound like a hypocrite.Even though Serie A are getting some excellent results in terms of co-efficients,the current points awarding system will always remain a joke.Totally stand by it.


100 percent agree. Will the epl have the problem Serie A teams have had in the past where they generate so much income from gaining higher spots in the league and or qualifying for the CL they don't take europa league seriously and as a whole english coefficients drop off and they lose 4th spot?
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:33 pm

nasir6371 wrote:I agree that it would not be possible for smaller leagues to move up if the CL/EL had different point value especially for a league that get 1 spot in for the CL starting in qualifying rounds.




Well if the teams from leagues like that can't cut it in the CL do they really have to have a better chance at 'moving up' ?

Bad enough having 'champions' coming in to the CL and being group stage rent boys shipping 20 odd goals in 6 games. God forbid we see what the distant 2nd teams from those leagues would look like.
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Post by rwo power Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:16 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Well if the teams from leagues like that can't cut it in the CL do they really have to have a better chance at 'moving up' ?
The point is - there should be a *chance* for them to be able to move up. By giving the EL even less points, there would be no chance whatsoever. If they are too bad, they won't collect enough points in the EL in the current model either. But IMO the possibility should be there for them.
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Post by Helmer Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:26 pm

that logic of how many goals scored against is false imo. It can also depend on the tactical stuff played by a team and not dependent on the actual quality of the team.

Current system is good imo because the poor get a chance to match the riches and the dynasties :coffee:

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed May 13, 2015 10:16 pm

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2015.html

With 19.0 coefficient points Italy is now having the most succesful season out of anyone in the past 5 years except superior liga, which has surpassed 19 points in 3 of the past 5 years.
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Post by rwo power Thu May 14, 2015 1:00 am

Well, Italy needed it as Portugal was already breathing down their necks.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:33 pm

Final UEFA coefficients:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2015.html
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:33 pm

Didn't England drop to 3rd?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:35 pm

No, the only way for England to drop to 3rd is for them to do worse than Italy for the next 2 years, which seems unlikely, or to perform 3.5 points worse than Italy in the next season.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:36 pm

We have to do worse than Germany to drop to 3rd don't we?

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:38 pm

No you start next season worse off than Germany as things currently stand:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2016.html
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:40 pm

Yea that's what I meant when I said dropped to 3rd.

Can't see EPL do that badly in Europe next season. Need to get dat 2nd spot back
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Post by Kaladin Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:40 pm

Just need a 3.1+ point advantage over England next season hmm
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Post by futbol Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:55 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:No you start next season worse off than Germany as things currently stand:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2016.html


DAT gap between GOAT Liga and the rest of the unworthy leagues:

GOAT Liga: 81.785
Bundesfodder: 63.749
Mule League: 62.034
Serie zZZzZZz: 58.939

rofl

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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:15 pm

El Shaarawy wrote:Just need a 3.1+ point advantage over England next season hmm

If you merely match them you start ahead of them one year later.
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Post by rwo power Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:51 pm

England will have 8 teams in Europe next time. If they will all do well, everything's fine, but the minus side is that all points will be divided by 8 that season, so if one or two teams drop out early, the remaining teams have it more difficult to add substantial points.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:11 pm

rwo power wrote:England will have 8 teams in Europe next time. If they will all do well, everything's fine, but the minus side is that all points will be divided by 8 that season, so if one or two teams drop out early, the remaining teams have it more difficult to add substantial points.


Yes. In my opinion that's a pretty important disadvantage.

I like this method as it's like a progressive tax on the strength of federations, but it makes sure having more teams isn't necessarily making it easier to accumulate more points. On the contrary it furthers upward (and, maybe in the case of England and Germany, downward) mobility.

BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.
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Post by Harmonica Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:30 pm

Fußball wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:No you start next season worse off than Germany as things currently stand:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2016.html


DAT gap between GOAT Liga and the rest of the unworthy leagues:

GOAT Liga: 81.785
Bundesfodder: 63.749
Mule League: 62.034
Serie zZZzZZz: 58.939

rofl
lmao
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:34 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
rwo power wrote:England will have 8 teams in Europe next time. If they will all do well, everything's fine, but the minus side is that all points will be divided by 8 that season, so if one or two teams drop out early, the remaining teams have it more difficult to add substantial points.


Yes. In my opinion that's a pretty important disadvantage.

I like this method as it's like a progressive tax on the strength of federations, but it makes sure having more teams isn't necessarily making it easier to accumulate more points. On the contrary it furthers upward (and, maybe in the case of England and Germany, downward) mobility.

BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.
UEFA coefficients penalize having more teams in the CL because you would expect Fiorentina to do better in the EL than the CL and they award both equally. The best strategy is to actually get kicked out of the CL group stages and then continue to make it far at the EL.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:37 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
rwo power wrote:England will have 8 teams in Europe next time. If they will all do well, everything's fine, but the minus side is that all points will be divided by 8 that season, so if one or two teams drop out early, the remaining teams have it more difficult to add substantial points.


Yes. In my opinion that's a pretty important disadvantage.

I like this method as it's like a progressive tax on the strength of federations, but it makes sure having more teams isn't necessarily making it easier to accumulate more points. On the contrary it furthers upward (and, maybe in the case of England and Germany, downward) mobility.

BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.
UEFA coefficients penalize having more teams in the CL because you would expect Fiorentina to do better in the EL than the CL and they award both equally. The best strategy is to actually get kicked out of the CL group stages and then continue to make it far at the EL.


But all points collected by teams are divided by the number of the countries participants in Europe to constitute the points effective for the ranking, no? Not just the points acquired in CL. hmm
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Post by Jay29 Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:38 pm

BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.

From what I've read, the EL spot Sevilla had will be vacated - so Spain will have 5 teams in the CL and 2 in the EL.

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