Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:24 pm

Us Allegri suppporters (and by "us" I really mean "me" since I can't recall anyone else defending his Milan haydays) have been proved right in the end Proud

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by RealGunner on Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:34 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Us Allegri suppporters (and by "us" I really mean "me" since I can't recall anyone else defending his Milan haydays) have been proved right in the end Proud


I've always supported him. pls go
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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Kaladin on Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:27 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Us Allegri suppporters (and by "us" I really mean "me" since I can't recall anyone else defending his Milan haydays) have been proved right in the end Proud


Proved right in the end at what? That he is a European genius? That he was served injustice in his sacking? It just seems your support from Allegri stems from his Milan tenure. Whilst he did start on a high note, he gradually went downhill. His tenure with us is littered with mistakes ranging from setting CI precedence over CL to losing to Spurs. Spurs. Crouch knocked us out, let that sink in. I could go on and on about his failures, but let me get back to why he was sacked. 4 wins in 16 games , losing to drawing/losing to relegation fodder and barely putting up a fight against the big teams. The fact of the matter is, he outstayed his welcome, his chapter was over. Seedorf did a brilliant job in the 2nd half of the season for a new coach with no experience at all, 3rd highest team in points during that period with glimpses of possession style football shown against Atleti at home and Juve at home. The fact of the matter is, Allegri had to go, not for the sake of results but for the sake of the team. Now, Allegri very well may progress to the semis, he may very well go to the final, he may very well win the damn thing. But, the fact of the matter is, his time at Milan should've been cut short.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Robespierre on Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:31 pm

I agree with El Shaarawy , I don't get still the hype for Allegri , this bandwagon for him . And I wait to say he is a CL GOAT , he never was this in career, now we'll see this year . Besides I think still Conte is better than him .
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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by DeviAngel on Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:07 am

El Shaarawy wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Us Allegri suppporters (and by "us" I really mean "me" since I can't recall anyone else defending his Milan haydays) have been proved right in the end Proud


Proved right in the end at what? That he is a European genius? That he was served injustice in his sacking? It just seems your support from Allegri stems from his Milan tenure. Whilst he did start on a high note, he gradually went downhill. His tenure with us is littered with mistakes ranging from setting CI precedence over CL to losing to Spurs. Spurs. Crouch knocked us out, let that sink in. I could go on and on about his failures, but let me get back to why he was sacked. 4 wins in 16 games , losing to drawing/losing to relegation fodder and barely putting up a fight against the big teams. The fact of the matter is, he outstayed his welcome, his chapter was over. Seedorf did a brilliant job in the 2nd half of the season for a new coach with no experience at all, 3rd highest team in points during that period with glimpses of possession style football shown against Atleti at home and Juve at home. The fact of the matter is, Allegri had to go, not for the sake of results but for the sake of the team. Now, Allegri very well may progress to the semis, he may very well go to the final, he may very well win the damn thing. But, the fact of the matter is, his time at Milan should've been cut short.

The only one you should blame is Galiani and Berlusconi for your club ending so bad under Allegri and now under Pipo.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:19 am

Prime God would not do jack shit with Milan. Maybe Allegri would have continued his good work if he actually got players he wanted as opposed to seeing his key players slowly replaced with whatever freebie can be grabbed from the Lebanese 4th division.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by DeviAngel on Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:30 am

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:Prime God would not do jack shit with Milan. Maybe Allegri would have continued his good work if he actually got players he wanted as opposed to seeing his key players slowly replaced with whatever freebie can be grabbed from the Lebanese 4th division.

2013 - Sassuolo President Giorgio Squinzi: “Silvio Berlusconi told me Massimiliano Allegri doesn’t understand anything.”


I just found this on a Milan forum, some of the posters said that Galiani begged Berlusconi for Allegri to stay as coach.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Kaladin on Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:40 am

@DeviAngel wrote:
El Shaarawy wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Us Allegri suppporters (and by "us" I really mean "me" since I can't recall anyone else defending his Milan haydays) have been proved right in the end Proud


Proved right in the end at what? That he is a European genius? That he was served injustice in his sacking? It just seems your support from Allegri stems from his Milan tenure. Whilst he did start on a high note, he gradually went downhill. His tenure with us is littered with mistakes ranging from setting CI precedence over CL to losing to Spurs. Spurs. Crouch knocked us out, let that sink in. I could go on and on about his failures, but let me get back to why he was sacked. 4 wins in 16 games , losing to drawing/losing to relegation fodder and barely putting up a fight against the big teams. The fact of the matter is, he outstayed his welcome, his chapter was over. Seedorf did a brilliant job in the 2nd half of the season for a new coach with no experience at all, 3rd highest team in points during that period with glimpses of possession style football shown against Atleti at home and Juve at home. The fact of the matter is, Allegri had to go, not for the sake of results but for the sake of the team. Now, Allegri very well may progress to the semis, he may very well go to the final, he may very well win the damn thing. But, the fact of the matter is, his time at Milan should've been cut short.

The only one you should blame is Galiani and Berlusconi for your club ending so bad under Allegri and now under Pipo.


The only ones to blame are Galliani and Silvio? What is this revisionist history? Allegri’s mistake with respect to the transfer market has been the approval of the board’s decisions. Allegri's last 6 months were filled with half-hearted performances to god-awful performances. Not to mention the glaring set piece weakness we've had since his 1st year. During that first half of the season, Milan had conceded 30 goals, with only Sassuolo, Bologna, Catania and Livorno, which incidentally are the last four teams in the Serie A standing, have conceding more.



Another indicator of Allegri's mediocrity that season is a worrying incapacity to protect the lead. From a comparison between equalizer goals conceded and goals giving the lead, when Milan took the lead they allowed a come back from the opponents in 58.3% of the cases, with only Bologna and Torino dropping more points in such situation.

[img][/img]

These are the sort of performances that took us to 14th spot, almost plunging us into relegation dogfights. Some of you still pin it that the players are to be blamed, but if that's the context we're using, then didn't we win the Scudetto thanks to the players as well? We had league legend Ibra, along with Robinho and Cassano. Yet, he's still the only coach to have lost a league with Ibra in the squad. I've had my annoyances with Allegri in his first 3 years with us, but i've stomached them and when he was reportedly going to be sacked during the summer of 2013, i backed him up. But the performances in his last few months with us was unacceptable, he had to go at that time. That's why i've backed Seedorf, he managed to turn that grueling, uniconic, bang-crap football into something with a bit more semblance, with a bit more identity.

I can go on and on, but i'll leave it at that. Pinning the failures of that season on the administration is a short-sighted view, not that i don't blame them, but the blame should've been allocated to everyone at that time. And in Pippo's case, he's to blame more so than the administration this season, since we started out well and gradually sinked down the table. For a coach, who had some prior experience, he's done worse than Seedorf.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by djfawnz on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:30 am

Lol. He is saying Sexxxllegri had to go, with all the mistakes, the team not winning and lack of motivation/whatever. Yet, one year later. It shows who Milan badly misses.....Also, you said Seedorf was a very good tactician in his 3 or so months he had....yet he is still unemployed as a coach......
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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by dostoevsky on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:44 am

I would be happy to have this debate but in the Allegri thread we have in the General Section. This is the Dortmund vs Juventus thread though, Milan's transfer activity isn't particularly relevant.

Superb game from Juventus, they rarely looked threatened and made a potentially tricky game look easy. I was very impressed by Morata who has truly grown in stature since the start of the season. He made Subotic look positively inept on many an occasion and whilst he will be disappointed to have fired two good chances straight at Weidenfeller truly showed that he deserves his spot in the starting line up.

As for Dortmund, I'm quite sad that this may be their last Champions League game for over a year. They still have an excellent foundation however and hopefully they'll be back to fight again sooner rather than later.
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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Kaladin on Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:05 pm

@djfawnz wrote:Lol. He is saying Sexxxllegri had to go, with all the mistakes, the team not winning and lack of motivation/whatever. Yet, one year later. It shows who Milan badly misses.....Also, you said Seedorf was a very good tactician in his 3 or so months he had....yet he is still unemployed as a coach......


1. I didn't say Seedorf was a tactician, in fact i didn't bring tactics at all, i said he built an aesthetically pleasing system that relied on possession as the catalyst of plays, learn to read.

2. He's unemployed because he said he does not want to coach until his contract with Milan expires (2016).

3. Maybe there's a small contingent of Milan fans missing Allegri, i however, do not.

As dost, mentioned, i will close this Allegri debate. However i will just say this, most of you are look at Allegri's tenure at Milan at a superficial level.

On topic: Marchisio's pass to Tevez for the 2nd goal was insane

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by jibers on Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:51 pm

Juve fans defending Allegri...

WTF did I drink this morning?!

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by djfawnz on Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:57 pm

Jibers, elsha dont get me wrong. I was as skeptical as you for Allegri, but he has surely done more than enough to win the fans and the higher management. He has really shown he is a top level coach.
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Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by DeviAngel on Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:10 pm

El Shaarawy wrote:
@DeviAngel wrote:
El Shaarawy wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Us Allegri suppporters (and by "us" I really mean "me" since I can't recall anyone else defending his Milan haydays) have been proved right in the end Proud


Proved right in the end at what? That he is a European genius? That he was served injustice in his sacking? It just seems your support from Allegri stems from his Milan tenure. Whilst he did start on a high note, he gradually went downhill. His tenure with us is littered with mistakes ranging from setting CI precedence over CL to losing to Spurs. Spurs. Crouch knocked us out, let that sink in. I could go on and on about his failures, but let me get back to why he was sacked. 4 wins in 16 games , losing to drawing/losing to relegation fodder and barely putting up a fight against the big teams. The fact of the matter is, he outstayed his welcome, his chapter was over. Seedorf did a brilliant job in the 2nd half of the season for a new coach with no experience at all, 3rd highest team in points during that period with glimpses of possession style football shown against Atleti at home and Juve at home. The fact of the matter is, Allegri had to go, not for the sake of results but for the sake of the team. Now, Allegri very well may progress to the semis, he may very well go to the final, he may very well win the damn thing. But, the fact of the matter is, his time at Milan should've been cut short.

The only one you should blame is Galiani and Berlusconi for your club ending so bad under Allegri and now under Pipo.


The only ones to blame are Galliani and Silvio? What is this revisionist history? Allegri’s mistake with respect to the transfer market has been the approval of the board’s decisions. Allegri's last 6 months were filled with half-hearted performances to god-awful performances. Not to mention the glaring set piece weakness we've had since his 1st year. During that first half of the season, Milan had conceded 30 goals, with only Sassuolo, Bologna, Catania and Livorno, which incidentally are the last four teams in the Serie A standing, have conceding more.



Another indicator of Allegri's mediocrity that season is a worrying incapacity to protect the lead. From a comparison between equalizer goals conceded and goals giving the lead, when Milan took the lead they allowed a come back from the opponents in 58.3% of the cases, with only Bologna and Torino dropping more points in such situation.

[img][/img]

These are the sort of performances that took us to 14th spot, almost plunging us into relegation dogfights. Some of you still pin it that the players are to be blamed, but if that's the context we're using, then didn't we win the Scudetto thanks to the players as well? We had league legend Ibra, along with Robinho and Cassano. Yet, he's still the only coach to have lost a league with Ibra in the squad. I've had my annoyances with Allegri in his first 3 years with us, but i've stomached them and when he was reportedly going to be sacked during the summer of 2013, i backed him up. But the performances in his last few months with us was unacceptable, he had to go at that time. That's why i've backed Seedorf, he managed to turn that grueling, uniconic, bang-crap football into something with a bit more semblance, with a bit more identity.

I can go on and on, but i'll leave it at that. Pinning the failures of that season on the administration is a short-sighted view, not that i don't blame them, but the blame should've been allocated to everyone at that time. And in Pippo's case, he's to blame more so than the administration this season, since we started out well and gradually sinked down the table. For a coach, who had some prior experience, he's done worse than Seedorf.

I simply disagree. And dosto is right if we want to we can continue this in the Allegri thread.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Bankz on Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:36 pm

Yes!
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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Robespierre on Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:39 pm

But who chose to sell Andrea Pirlo in place of midfielder destroyers ?
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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:25 pm

@Robespierre wrote:But who chose to sell Andrea Pirlo in place of midfielder destroyers ?


Laughing

Besides I don't see how being average at Juve means he did a great job at Milan, he can win the *bleep* CL at Juve and still don't change the fact he wasn't good at Milan.

Don't see why Milan fans should change their minds because he happens to be doing OK with his new team. It means absolutely nothing.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Kaladin on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:00 am

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:But who chose to sell Andrea Pirlo in place of midfielder destroyers ?


Laughing

Besides I don't see how being average at Juve means he did a great job at Milan, he can win the *bleep* CL at Juve and still don't change the fact he wasn't good at Milan.

Don't see why Milan fans should change their minds because he happens to be doing OK with his new team. It means absolutely nothing.



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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:06 am

El Shaarawy wrote:Proved right in the end at what? That he is a European genius? That he was served injustice in his sacking? It just seems your support from Allegri stems from his Milan tenure. Whilst he did start on a high note, he gradually went downhill. His tenure with us is littered with mistakes ranging from setting CI precedence over CL to losing to Spurs. Spurs. Crouch knocked us out, let that sink in. I could go on and on about his failures, but let me get back to why he was sacked. 4 wins in 16 games , losing to drawing/losing to relegation fodder and barely putting up a fight against the big teams. The fact of the matter is, he outstayed his welcome, his chapter was over. Seedorf did a brilliant job in the 2nd half of the season for a new coach with no experience at all, 3rd highest team in points during that period with glimpses of possession style football shown against Atleti at home and Juve at home. The fact of the matter is, Allegri had to go, not for the sake of results but for the sake of the team. Now, Allegri very well may progress to the semis, he may very well go to the final, he may very well win the damn thing. But, the fact of the matter is, his time at Milan should've been cut short.


No coach is perfect and Allegri is not without his faults. I am also willing to accept that his third season at Milan was a flop, it certainly was. But I feel that this last season there has tarnished his reputation a bit, letting us forget that for the seasons before that he consistently punched above his weight with a team that was losing stars every transfer period and had to deal with very constrained resources to replace them. Not only that, but I feel that he has also been made into a scapegoat, with some fans at the time arguing that he was the primary reason Milan found themselves in that dilemma rather than 4 years of depleting quality of the squad. Perhaps it's because since I'm not a Milan fan I didn't have to live his mistakes, but it seems to me that on the balance his stay at Milan was very positive and that on a tactical level he is one of the most promising Italian coaches under 50.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Kaladin on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:30 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
El Shaarawy wrote:Proved right in the end at what? That he is a European genius? That he was served injustice in his sacking? It just seems your support from Allegri stems from his Milan tenure. Whilst he did start on a high note, he gradually went downhill. His tenure with us is littered with mistakes ranging from setting CI precedence over CL to losing to Spurs. Spurs. Crouch knocked us out, let that sink in. I could go on and on about his failures, but let me get back to why he was sacked. 4 wins in 16 games , losing to drawing/losing to relegation fodder and barely putting up a fight against the big teams. The fact of the matter is, he outstayed his welcome, his chapter was over. Seedorf did a brilliant job in the 2nd half of the season for a new coach with no experience at all, 3rd highest team in points during that period with glimpses of possession style football shown against Atleti at home and Juve at home. The fact of the matter is, Allegri had to go, not for the sake of results but for the sake of the team. Now, Allegri very well may progress to the semis, he may very well go to the final, he may very well win the damn thing. But, the fact of the matter is, his time at Milan should've been cut short.


No coach is perfect and Allegri is not without his faults. I am also willing to accept that his third season at Milan was a flop, it certainly was. But I feel that this last season there has tarnished his reputation a bit, letting us forget that for the seasons before that he consistently punched above his weight with a team that was losing stars every transfer period and had to deal with very constrained resources to replace them. Not only that, but I feel that he has also been made into a scapegoat, with some fans at the time arguing that he was the primary reason Milan found themselves in that dilemma rather than 4 years of depleting quality of the squad. Perhaps it's because since I'm not a Milan fan I didn't have to live his mistakes, but it seems to me that on the balance his stay at Milan was very positive and that on a tactical level he is one of the most promising Italian coaches under 50.


I respectfully disagree, the only season where Allegri 'punched above his weight' was the 2012/13 season in which he scrapped up 3rd with a torn squad. However, his 2nd season (2011/12), was one of the biggest botch-ups in a title race i've ever seen. He lost to a Juventus side that drew more times than than a Yu Gi Oh game. Not to mention his decision to play TS (who just came back from injury) in a CI game rather than the upcoming fixture against Barca (The one we drew 0-0). Additionally, his initial season saw him receive Ibra, Robinho and KPB. Couple that with Mourinho's departure from Inter and Rafa's arrival then Rafa's departure and Leo's arrival. No one truly challenged us, except Inter during the last couple of matchdays thanks to a Palermo loss with Ibra suspended (Shocker). Nobody fully faults him for the crap 2013/14 season, however he shares a lot of the portion of the blame.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by titosantill on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:30 am

El Shaarawy wrote:
@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:But who chose to sell Andrea Pirlo in place of midfielder destroyers ?


Laughing

Besides I don't see how being average at Juve means he did a great job at Milan, he can win the *bleep* CL at Juve and still don't change the fact he wasn't good at Milan.

Don't see why Milan fans should change their minds because he happens to be doing OK with his new team. It means absolutely nothing.




THIS.....fans think football or anything for that matter is always black and white, there is a grey area. did the guy fail at milan? yes, he made some poor decisions in the final run, it wasn't solely his fault, it also had to do with management, but the fact that milan are still crap doesn't exonerate him. Just means he wasn't the only reason for their failure. and success at juve counts for little in comparison to the milan scenario, they have won like 3 straight seria a titles before him and established dominance in the league prior to......now if he went there and failed there, after there recent success, one can point to his general management skills and question it....all doesn't change the fact he messed up at milan
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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Lord Spencer on Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:56 am

If I am to rate Allegri's entire stint at Milan, I would give him a C+.

He did well to win his first season in Milan, but he did so with Carlo's player's giving their final stand as well as with Ibra. In his second season, we saw his decision regarding Pirlo biting in the ass, and I truley believe we wouldn't be in this situations had we won the scudetto twice in a row.

As for his final two season, he did well to recover after a disastrous first half to get us CL. But undid all his good work in the last season.

In the CL, I think he played the Barca matches well, but generally flopped. Especially as I think Milan were a better team than Spurs when we got dumped by them.

As for team building, I put the blame squarely in the backroom staff's shoulder's there.
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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by Vibe on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:04 pm

Vibestradamus never got off the Allegri train :coffee:

He's one of those managers who need to be paired with a great sporting director in order to build the team,otherwise you'll end up with a bunch of average players that might overachieve in a mid table club but get exposed on higher level.

At Milan,he stumbled upon Nesta,Silva and Ibrahimovic,at Juve he stubled upon Pogba,Vidal and Tevez.Once he gets the tools,he knows how to work with them.But someone else needs to buy the right tools.
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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by nichabr on Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:24 pm

I had theory that Allegri didn't care the last season he was at Milan because of the constant disrespect he got from Berlusconi in particular and just didn't try....other seasons he was great minus a few decisions here and there.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

Post by McLewis on Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:11 pm

I still maintain that virtually any coach worth his footballing salt could've done what Allegri's done so far. He walked into a team already constructed to win titles. His only challenge has been keeping them motivated and he's done that with ease.

Allegri should be judged next season when he actually starts molding this squad into his own image, tactics and priniciples.

If it's not broke, don't fix it....Allegri knows this and adhered to it. Simple as that.

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Re: Has Allegri been vindicated for his last season at Milan?

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