Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Winter is Coming on Thu May 07, 2015 1:17 am

Would've gotten a red and then they have Dante in the back for return leg thats suicide now, he knows better.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by zigra on Thu May 07, 2015 1:43 am

They had Martinez on the bench tonight so probably he'd be able to play a whole match next week hmm
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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Cruijf on Thu May 07, 2015 3:33 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:

Where Pep *bleep* it up is his subs, or lack of hmm


Who do you think he should've brought on? I was thinking the same thing around the 70 minute mark, as even in their dominant spells Bayern were never really threatening Barca, but there was no one for him to turn to.

I mean, the Bayern bench was Dante, Javi Martínez, Pizarro, Gaudino, Gotze, Reina, and Weiser Laughing

Bringing on Gotze was his only option and was a good move. I would've done it for Alonso instead of Muller, but even that may not have made much of a difference.

Overall I think Pep did the best he could, considering Bayern didn't have any dynamic attacking players. It was funny, there were plenty of times they had space on the break and whoever had the ball would look ahead of them and just find nothing. Without Robbery, there's no pace, no width, and no penetration. Leads to a display that we saw today, where even though it was a relatively even match, Bayern's inability to create anything meant their success hinged on keeping a clean sheet, which is rather difficult against Messi Laughing

There will always be those who say Pep was naive and should've parked the bus, and to a point I agree with them. Having said that, to be so firm in one's desire to attack is admirable, and I think us neutral's enjoyed it. And there's also the point that a midfield of Alonso, Thiago, Lahm, and Schweinsteiger may simply not have been capable of parking the bus.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't criticize Pep too much. The only coach in the world that could've gotten a result from this game would've been Mourinho, and the romantic part of me prefers the Guardiola's to the Mourinho's, even if the Guardiola's lose.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Wor Ayoze on Thu May 07, 2015 3:58 am

Coachessi made this fraud look good

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu May 07, 2015 8:12 am

@Cruijf wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:

Where Pep *bleep* it up is his subs, or lack of hmm


Who do you think he should've brought on? I was thinking the same thing around the 70 minute mark, as even in their dominant spells Bayern were never really threatening Barca, but there was no one for him to turn to.

I mean, the Bayern bench was Dante, Javi Martínez, Pizarro, Gaudino, Gotze, Reina, and Weiser Laughing

Bringing on Gotze was his only option and was a good move. I would've done it for Alonso instead of Muller, but even that may not have made much of a difference.

Overall I think Pep did the best he could, considering Bayern didn't have any dynamic attacking players. It was funny, there were plenty of times they had space on the break and whoever had the ball would look ahead of them and just find nothing. Without Robbery, there's no pace, no width, and no penetration. Leads to a display that we saw today, where even though it was a relatively even match, Bayern's inability to create anything meant their success hinged on keeping a clean sheet, which is rather difficult against Messi Laughing

There will always be those who say Pep was naive and should've parked the bus, and to a point I agree with them. Having said that, to be so firm in one's desire to attack is admirable, and I think us neutral's enjoyed it. And there's also the point that a midfield of Alonso, Thiago, Lahm, and Schweinsteiger may simply not have been capable of parking the bus.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't criticize Pep too much. The only coach in the world that could've gotten a result from this game would've been Mourinho, and the romantic part of me prefers the Guardiola's to the Mourinho's, even if the Guardiola's lose.


I'm not critisizing Pep at all for the way we played and were set up. I think we did great for most of the game.

But Thiago was not up for this game, a no show and turnover machine, and Lewandowski clearly wasn't there anymore after 60-70 minutes, which is not surprising given his state.

Both needed to be subbed off.
Instead Pep waits until we concede and then takes off Müller, who was one of our best players and the only one to have an attacking impact.
Terrible decision.

Bring on Martinez for Thiago and Götze for Lewandowski after 70 minutes to preserve the 0:0, or bring on Götze for Thiago and Pizarro for Lewandowski if you want to go for it a bit.
Do NOT take off Müller after we concede.

Pep did the same last week, and it was just as big a mistake.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Art Morte on Thu May 07, 2015 8:14 am

Missing both Ribery and Robben did cost Munich & I don't think Pep is to blame here. Getting that away goal was - or would have been - crucial and that's where those two would have done a world of good.

My only criticism is that Götze should have started. Alonso, Lahm and Shweinsteiger as 3/4 of your midfield in 2015 is just not good enough at this stage and when that away goal was needed. Robben would have started in one of those guy's place, I reckon, so why not start Götze when Robben and Ribery weren't available?

Anyway, this one's not on Pep, imo. When you look at the starting line-ups, it's pretty clear Barca had the better players on the night and it was on their turf. In the line-ups also lies Pep's biggest challenge if he is to remain the Bayern manager: Can he maintain the team's level of the past few years when guys like Robben, Ribery, Lahm and Shweini are in their 30's now? Points in Heynckes' last season in Bundesliga were 91 for Bayern, in Pep's first year 90, this year if they win their last three games it will be 85. In Heynckes' last season Bayern beat Barca 7 - 0 in the semis. Last season they lost 5 - 0 to Real and now lost the first leg 3 - 0 to Barca. The downward trend is there and it's up to Pep to stop the slide. His success or failure in that is what will define his time as Bayern manager, not this semi-final.
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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by free_cat on Thu May 07, 2015 10:20 am

The Muller sub was bad. One has to wonder why Pep hates Gotze so much. I know Gotze hasn't been in good form, but it goes both ways. If you don't show him some kind of faith and playing time, he can't perform. He did the same with other player who were very good with us for some time, like Toure or Bojan.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by zigra on Thu May 07, 2015 12:51 pm

Götze played more than 3000 minutes this season and apart from a couple of months at the start of the season he's been one big disappointment. Started in the last 4 games in the league aswell. Would've surprised me big time if Pep would've trusted him to start such an important game. Sorry but Götze simply needs to up his game if he wants to play in the big matches.
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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by jibers on Thu May 07, 2015 12:58 pm

People really saying Pep is ovverated are truly just dumb. Ancelotti has reached 4 cl finals, Alex Ferguson (the supposed GOAT of GOATs) has reached 4 in 30+ years of management, Mourinho has reached 2 finals. The other problem here is that people are ovverating Bayern. Do you know how hard it is to reach a final and then win it? The whole treble by Juup Heynckes has distorted the view of Bayern around the world and even of Bayern management and a lot of their fans.

Bayern were fortunate to meet a Barcelona in dissaray that season with a Messi that was injured. The 7-0 result seems to be harped on about and brought up consistently. To put things in perspective, Barcelona that season at full strength were beaten by essentially Madrids reserve team convicngly before they faced Bayern. These things need to be looked at in context. Like last year BVB hammered Bayern 3-0 before they faced Madrid irrc so the Madrid result was not that much of a freak result as people make it out to be. Even the Bayern management like Paul Breitner seem to be so outspoken and arrogant, it's outrageous! Bayern are not some infallible super team ffs!

Pep could not have done more yesterday tbh. Bar the Muller sub as a few people have picked up on, and the first 10-15 minutes with the 3 man backline, Bayern played well. We can sit here and talk about systems and tactics but the fact is that Bayern had neither pace nor a direct dribbling threat, things you need to break defensive lines and play on the counter effectiveley which is what a lot of people wanted them to play. Without Robben, Ribey or even alaba through the centre or at LB they had no threat to Barcelona. It's obvious. Please tell me what Barcelona would do at this level without Messi, Neymar and Alves, or Madrid without CR, Marcelo and Benzema. Add the fact that the tie was decided by Messi's individual action and then the result is not that hard to phathom. People need to calm down a bit and realise that Messi in that form is unstoppable.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Thu May 07, 2015 1:19 pm

Not sure what subbing Muller has to do with Bayern defenders giving the ball to Messi 3 times in a row mind Laughing

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by farfan on Thu May 07, 2015 1:30 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Not sure what subbing Muller has to do with Bayern defenders giving the ball to Messi 3 times in a row mind Laughing


exactly Laughing

and it's not like Muller was setting the game on fire either .
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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by free_cat on Thu May 07, 2015 1:36 pm

Gotze was the only forward in his team who can drible a defender... and later he complained about missing 1vs1...

Another thing bayern could have done a lot more is overlap and cross, with Muller and Lewandowski as headers, they might have caused us danger.

Anyway, as you all know, I'm a big fan of Guardiola and I think he did what he could, but perhaps sometimes you need to be more pragmatic and recognize you are not at the level of the opposition team and can't play out and out.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by jibers on Thu May 07, 2015 1:49 pm

@free_cat wrote:Gotze was the only forward in his team who can drible a defender... and later he complained about missing 1vs1...

Another thing bayern could have done a lot more is overlap and cross, with Muller and Lewandowski as headers, they might have caused us danger.

Anyway, as you all know, I'm a big fan of Guardiola and I think he did what he could, but perhaps sometimes you need to be more pragmatic and recognize you are not at the level of the opposition team and can't play out and out.


Maybe the old Gotze he don't have the pace to get away from his man. He lost a bit of his acceleration ever since his injury. So the fbs bomb forward and leave their flanks free to Neymar and Messi? That would leave the back line stretched and create one on ones for Barca. I don't think he could have done anything differently.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Art Morte on Thu May 07, 2015 2:29 pm

@jibers wrote:The other problem here is that people are ovverating Bayern. The whole treble by Juup Heynckes has distorted the view of Bayern around the world and even of Bayern management and a lot of their fans.

This is what I think as well. This Bayern team peaked in Heynckes' last season. Pep's real challenge is to reach that peak again in the next three years, not beating this Barcelona team now. It's quite obvious that this Barcelona team is in a better moment in its cycle than this Bayern team that relies on a couple of 30-something wingers to be a real attacking threat in the latter stages of the Champions League.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by futbol on Thu May 07, 2015 3:12 pm

Can someone explain why Pep thought 3 man backline was a good idea at the beginning? Before the game Sammer explained how Guardiola had come up with a great plan and how impressed he was with it. So the master plan was leaving 3 at the back vs. Neymar, Messi and Suarez? Laughing

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Winter is Coming on Thu May 07, 2015 3:19 pm

I'm pretty sure the aim was to nick a goal quickly a possible make us push up due to that back 3 and getting us on a quick break didn't work.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu May 07, 2015 3:34 pm

Fußball wrote:Can someone explain why Pep thought 3 man backline was a good idea at the beginning? Before the game Sammer explained how Guardiola had come up with a great plan and how impressed he was with it. So the master plan was leaving 3 at the back vs. Neymar, Messi and Suarez? Laughing


Pep has to change his formation and plan after about 20 minutes in practically every big game lol.
The thing he came up with never works Laughing

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu May 07, 2015 3:39 pm

It was to free up a midfielder to press high. As the game evolved and the team had less energy he switched to a 4 man back line. He would experiment like this at Barça too, generally to favorable results, except with the 343

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by The Franchise on Thu May 07, 2015 3:43 pm

Fußball wrote:Can someone explain why Pep thought 3 man backline was a good idea at the beginning? Before the game Sammer explained how Guardiola had come up with a great plan and how impressed he was with it. So the master plan was leaving 3 at the back vs. Neymar, Messi and Suarez? Laughing

It was simple I thought. He knows Barca and knows that the best way to give them problems is to get the game out of a rhythm and not let them build from the back easily.

He went man for man every time MATS got the back (which meant leaving 3 v 3 at the back obviously) and forced us into long kicks. Most of them worked for Bayern because they won nearly all those aerial balls. The problem was obviously there is no cover at the back so if Barca won one of those long balls it was a danger and that Suarez chance provoked the change because the space was just too big.


Last edited by The Franchise on Thu May 07, 2015 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by futbol on Thu May 07, 2015 3:44 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:It was to free up a midfielder to press high. As the game evolved and the team had less energy he switched to a 4 man back line. He would experiment like this at Barça too, generally to favorable results, except with the 343


"As the game evolved"? He shat his pants after a simple ter Stegen goalkick led to a Suarez 1vs.1 with Neuer and changed it after 15 minutes. Laughing

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by The Franchise on Thu May 07, 2015 3:45 pm

In any event, I am not sure what the big deal was with this. He changed it as soon as it he saw it wouldnt work and it was 0-0 with no harm done.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by free_cat on Thu May 07, 2015 3:47 pm

The idea that 3 CB + 2 wingbacks is a 3 man defence is ridiculous.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu May 07, 2015 3:51 pm

Btw Bayern almost got away with the game, it was 0-0 at the 75th minute, the scoreline flatters Barça and makes it seem much more one sided than it really was. I for one was shitting my pants at th prospect of going to Munich with no goals.

Pep can tweak his tactics and teach his players as much as is humanly possible, but when the greatest player of our generation is able to show his talent there is very little anyone can do.

People would do well to remember what Boateng was like at City before claiming Pep is a fraud, and that's just but 1 example. Albeit he fell in his ass he had an objectively solid game.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu May 07, 2015 3:53 pm

@jibers wrote: Even the Bayern management like Paul Breitner seem to be so outspoken and arrogant, it's outrageous! Bayern are not some infallible super team ffs!


tbf Breitner is not Bayern management, he's never managed anything but now provides foot-in-mouth moments regularly as our 'brand ambassador' :facepalm:

He's a moron who's gone senile on top of being a moron, and my thought on his remarks are to be found here http://www.goallegacy.net/t37618p144-cl-sf-barcelona-vs-bayern-munich#1415490 and following

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Curtinho on Thu May 07, 2015 4:08 pm

If Robben and Ribery were healthy it's a different game. Not sure you can blame Pep for Messi being the best player in the world.

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Re: Pep Fraudiola Denunciation Thread

Post by Muppet on Thu May 07, 2015 11:44 pm

Sadly our clown is no better than this clown. But maybe people will stop with all the ridiculous praise for him now? Hans?
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