Maradona's acheivment in 1986
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Valkyrja wrote:Of course a footballer in 1986 is slower than one in 2014. It's not about who is faster or about who is a better dribbler. It's about the impact the player has on his team, and Maradona in 86 was as close to a one man team as it could get
Bankz- First Team
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Not going to argue over 90% of what's been written in this thread. Two points looked odd that I'll adress.
1. " The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final, won CA91 without him"
Two outfield players participated in both tournaments. Actually using the word "same"..... Sigh
2. "The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final"
Maradona was the only outfield argentina player in the WC90 "team of the tournament. Deary me.
1. " The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final, won CA91 without him"
Two outfield players participated in both tournaments. Actually using the word "same"..... Sigh
2. "The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final"
Maradona was the only outfield argentina player in the WC90 "team of the tournament. Deary me.
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Two 9 minute videos is gonna properly and objectively analyse what took place during 90 and close to 120 minutes respectively?!
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
DuringTheWar wrote:Not going to argue over 90% of what's been written in this thread. Two points looked odd that I'll adress.
1. " The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final, won CA91 without him"
Two outfield players participated in both tournaments. Actually using the word "same"..... Sigh
2. "The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final"
Maradona was the only outfield argentina player in the WC90 "team of the tournament. Deary me.
According to this thread, Maradona is on level with Aguero.
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
According this post, M99 can't comprehend.M99 wrote:According to this thread, Maradona is on level with Aguero.
Nobody said Maradona is on level of Aguero, his achievement in Napoli is on level of Aguero in ManC.
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Barrilete care to comment?Harmonica wrote:Maradona at Napoli is a myth, there's nothing that impressive about it. It's basically the exact same as Aguero winning league with today's ManC.BarrileteCosmico wrote:On subject I think taking Napoli to their only two Serie A titles in history is far more impressive than the WC, but those individual moments are all anyone hears about. They fit the narrative, the myth that surrounds him painting him as a lone gunslinger that took down eleven other players with no help from his teammates at all.
Napoli was the highest spending team in Europe at Maradona's time. Napoli transfered in 7 players in 84-85 season including Bagni and Maradona, 7 players in 85-86 season including Renica and Giordano, 7 players in 86-87 including Sola, De Napoli, Volpecina, Muro and Carnevale, who then were the foundation of Napoli. Almost all players bought after 1983-84. Gazetta ratings for first Scudetto 86-87 with this team:
ManC before spending spree league position
15 - 14 - 9 - 10, after 5 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 1
Napoli before spending spree and Maradona league position
3 - 4 - 9 - 11, after 8 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 2
The similarity on those 7 last seasons is uncanny.
Furthermore Napoli of 86-87 had 4 nt-team regulars Bagni, Ferrara and De Napoli + Maradona. Bagni, Maradona and De Napoli all bought after 83-84. The same as Juventus in 86-87, Scirea, Cabrini, Platini and Laudrup. The same as Milan 86-87, Baresi, Donadoni, Wilkins and Hateley. Napoli at that time wasn't Sevilla or Valencia of today in relation, it was ManC of today. This was because the player restrictions compared to today, where most teams had one star player and couple NT-regulars.
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Harmonica wrote:According this post, M99 can't comprehend.M99 wrote:According to this thread, Maradona is on level with Aguero.
Nobody said Maradona is on level of Aguero, his achievement in Napoli is on level of Aguero in ManC.
Maradonas achievement is on level with that of aguero's achievement with man city?
Winning the league as the undisputed star of the league and in the world?
Winning with freaking Napoli in the best league In the world, with all the best players playing there at the time is thesame as winning the PL with man city?
Winning an European cup with Napoli is same with what aguero's done in Europe with man city?
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Napoli never won European Cup, they got thumbed exactly the same way as ManC. First and second round.Bankz wrote:Harmonica wrote:According this post, M99 can't comprehend.M99 wrote:According to this thread, Maradona is on level with Aguero.
Nobody said Maradona is on level of Aguero, his achievement in Napoli is on level of Aguero in ManC.
Maradonas achievement is on level with that of aguero's achievement with man city?
Winning the league as the undisputed star of the league and in the world?
Winning with freaking Napoli in the best league In the world, with all the best players playing there at the time is thesame as winning the PL with man city?
Winning an European cup with Napoli is same with what aguero's done in Europe with man city?
Napoli had 4 NT-regulars, the same as top teams in the league at the time. That's exact same relation as ManC has with top teams today.
What can't you comprehend?
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
I' ve doubts Ferrara and Bagni were better than Maradona
Bianchi expecially ... typical Average manager carried by great players
Anyway there is a way to enlarge this pic ? There is a biggest than this ? I 'm Italian so I am curious to read the motivations and I can translate it.
Bianchi expecially ... typical Average manager carried by great players
Anyway there is a way to enlarge this pic ? There is a biggest than this ? I 'm Italian so I am curious to read the motivations and I can translate it.
Last edited by Robespierre on Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Harmonica wrote:Napoli never won European Cup, they got thumbed exactly the same way as ManC. First and second round.Bankz wrote:Harmonica wrote:
According this post, M99 can't comprehend.
Nobody said Maradona is on level of Aguero, his achievement in Napoli is on level of Aguero in ManC.
Maradonas achievement is on level with that of aguero's achievement with man city?
Winning the league as the undisputed star of the league and in the world?
Winning with freaking Napoli in the best league In the world, with all the best players playing there at the time is thesame as winning the PL with man city?
Winning an European cup with Napoli is same with what aguero's done in Europe with man city?
Napoli had 4 NT-regulars, the same as top teams in the league at the time. That's exact same relation as ManC has with top teams today.
What can't you comprehend?
Napoli won Uefa Cup '89 , at that time it was much better than actual Europa League and maybe even more competitive than CL , considering it was played by 2nd 3rd 4th of every league, while CL was just for the 1st
It was another football for so many things ,also for this reason it's so difficult to compare players of different eras
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Uefa Cup/Europa League is a minor tournament. If it was more competitive Napoli would have won European Cup, but being more competitive doesn't mean much, the whole Algerian league was inside few points in last match day. What it means that you're big fish among small fishes, rather than big fish among big fishes.Robespierre wrote:Harmonica wrote:Napoli never won European Cup, they got thumbed exactly the same way as ManC. First and second round.Bankz wrote:
Maradonas achievement is on level with that of aguero's achievement with man city?
Winning the league as the undisputed star of the league and in the world?
Winning with freaking Napoli in the best league In the world, with all the best players playing there at the time is thesame as winning the PL with man city?
Winning an European cup with Napoli is same with what aguero's done in Europe with man city?
Napoli had 4 NT-regulars, the same as top teams in the league at the time. That's exact same relation as ManC has with top teams today.
What can't you comprehend?
Napoli won Uefa Cup '89 , at that time it was much better than actual Europa League and maybe even more competitive than CL , considering it was played by 2nd 3rd 4th of every league, while CL was just for the 1st
It was another football for so many things ,also for this reason it's so difficult to compare players of different era
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Robespierre wrote:I' ve doubts Ferrara and Bagni were better than Maradona
Bianchi expecially ... typical Average manager carried by great players
Anyway there is a way to enlarge this pic ? There is a biggest than this ? I 'm Italian so I am curious to read the motivations and I can translate it.
- Spoiler:
- https://i.imgur.com/yHDeDG3.jpg
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
last time i'm posting on here, but once again none of those players where world beaters by any stretch of the imagination, the best signing they brought in (besides diego) was careca, and he wouldn't have walked into the line up of any of the rival teams...toure, silva, tevez, kompany, and joe hart could have strolled into any of the other top epl teams (maybe except for kompany and joe hart getting into united). and aguero was lured to city, he came into a team that had won an fa cup and gotten third spot, so the mentality was growing. no matter how one spins it you can't compare that to joining a side that was a point off relegation the year before like napoli was. just because you buy a bunch of players from mid to low level sides doesn't equate to much....romano for example was at milan when they were in serie b, prior to moving to napoli, and some guys were even playing serie c football prior to signing for napoli. and btw besides diego and bagni, the guys who were internationals, got called up after napoli's exploits and not before diego got signed....you take maradona out of that team, they would have done zilch in domestic competition and the uefa cup, they would never get past 9th. once again, i'm not suggesting guys need to go and play for west ham to prove a point, pele nor di stefano nor ronaldo (phenomeno) didn't play for small sides, and regardless of what one says, their greatness shouldn't be questioned. i know people like to suggest pele played against mechanics, barbers and farmers...smh. these people have retired ages ago, and were good promoters of the sport, let them be, and let's enjoy the present......(benitez and florentino better not put on a laurel and hardy type act, like we saw last season or there will be little to enjoy once again)
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
thanks Haromica .
translated :
Surely decisive, as always in every victory. He scored decisive and amazing goals.It is enough his presence in pitch to create restlessness to opponent defences. But about the general performance he can't be ranked as first among Napoli players.
Well , a curious interpretation It's first time I read / listen a similar thing.
translated :
Surely decisive, as always in every victory. He scored decisive and amazing goals.It is enough his presence in pitch to create restlessness to opponent defences. But about the general performance he can't be ranked as first among Napoli players.
Well , a curious interpretation It's first time I read / listen a similar thing.
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Since when did random magazine ratings have any credibility? According to Marca, Cristiano was the best player in La Liga the past 3 seasons in a row. Messi behind Diego Costa last season. I guess someone will quote that in 30 years to make a point how Messi wasn't all that.
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Looooooooooooooool
Scrub magazine ratings as prove Maradona wasn't all that
Meanwhile C.Ronaldo winning the bdo proves people just fail for hype
Scrub magazine ratings as prove Maradona wasn't all that
Meanwhile C.Ronaldo winning the bdo proves people just fail for hype
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
That's how myths develop, give enough time and "good" turns into "unique" and so on, and soon there are Justin Biebers telling you how it was.Robespierre wrote:thanks Haromica .
translated :
Surely decisive, as always in every victory. He scored decisive and amazing goals.It is enough his presence in pitch to create restlessness to opponent defences. But about the general performance he can't be ranked as first among Napoli players.
Well , a curious interpretation It's first time I read / listen a similar thing.
Napoli's first scudetto was a team performance, Maradona had much more say in the second scudetto 89-90, same magazine ratings:
- Spoiler:
Both ratings agree with statistical analyze:
Maradona 86-87 was in relation like Messi 08-09, 09-10, 10-11, 14-15, Romario 93-94, Ronaldo 96-97, Ronaldinho 05-06, and countless others.
Maradona 89-90 however was more of unique "carrying" performance, as Messi 11-12, 12-13 or Rivaldo 98-99.
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
Fußball wrote:Since when did random magazine ratings have any credibility? According to Marca, Cristiano was the best player in La Liga the past 3 seasons in a row. Messi behind Diego Costa last season. I guess someone will quote that in 30 years to make a point how Messi wasn't all that.
zigra wrote:Looooooooooooooool
Scrub magazine ratings as prove Maradona wasn't all that
Meanwhile C.Ronaldo winning the bdo proves people just fail for hype
Lord help the world when 30 years later people visit goal.com player ratings archive.
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
The 1986 WC was a lot like Japan/South Korea or the US World Cups... namely, the playing conditions were extremely hot and advantageous to teams with players used to playing in that kind of climate.
Germany played like the Chelsea that won CL... they'd park the bus and/or play for the shootout. Very effective at it. Far cry from the talented Germany NTs of 1982 and before.
Maradonna was fantastic in that WC no doubt. Incredible in fact. But he was not considered the best player in the world then... that happened 10 years later
Germany played like the Chelsea that won CL... they'd park the bus and/or play for the shootout. Very effective at it. Far cry from the talented Germany NTs of 1982 and before.
Maradonna was fantastic in that WC no doubt. Incredible in fact. But he was not considered the best player in the world then... that happened 10 years later
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
ahmad25 wrote:Here is the both players performance in the WC final. I dont get how maradona played better than messi? I would even say messi looks better player than maradona.much faster and better dribbler
Put this messi in 86 final and he would make more impact than maradona
You do realize 30 years from now kids are going to use the same arguments against Messi that you're using against Maradona right?
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
I dont care i will be 60 years old after 30 years and will spend my time reading religous books
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Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986
For 1984-85 the net transfer spending was 19.4 billion lire. Says Panini and La Stampa.
For 1985-86 the net spending was 11 billion lire. Says Panini, as noted at the Italian wikipedia too.
For 1986-87 it was at least 12 billion as shown ahead (for De Napoli, Romano, Carnevale), but they also paid a small fee for Luciano Sola.
http://www.archiviolastampa.it/component/option,com_lastampa/task,search/mod,libera/action,viewer/Itemid,3/page,22/articleid,1017_01_1984_0161_0022_22708818/
Some (not all) transfers relative to records at the time:
1984 Maradona 7.5 M$ (transfer record 7.5 M$)
1984 Bagni 1.7 M$
1985 Giordano 2.6 M$
1986 De Napoli 3.9 M$
1986 Carnevale 2.7 M$
1986 Romano 1.4 M$
1987 Careca 5 M$ (transfer record 9.6 M$)
1987 Francini 4.4 M$
1988 Crippa 5.6 M$
1988 Fusi 4.2 M$
1988 Alemao 3.4 M$
So Napoli spent more than current transfer record at the time at least 1984,1986,1987,1988 on new players. Which in 11-12 money would mean over 80 M£, relation of ManC spent 11-12 58 M£.
Lire to Dollar http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/EXITUS.txt
Dollar to Pounds https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/EXUSUK.txt
Based on the net spending http://www.trasnfermarkt.com in relation of highest transfer at the time, spending of three seasons before ManC and Napoli won the league:
Napoli 84-85 11.1M$ + 85-86 5.8M$ + 86-87 8.1M$ = 25M$ / (transfer record 7.5M$) = 3.3x transfer record
ManC 09-10 102M£ + 10-11 128M£ + 11-12 58M£ = 288M£ / (transfer record 80M£) = 3.6x transfer record
Any comments Barrilete?
For 1985-86 the net spending was 11 billion lire. Says Panini, as noted at the Italian wikipedia too.
For 1986-87 it was at least 12 billion as shown ahead (for De Napoli, Romano, Carnevale), but they also paid a small fee for Luciano Sola.
http://www.archiviolastampa.it/component/option,com_lastampa/task,search/mod,libera/action,viewer/Itemid,3/page,22/articleid,1017_01_1984_0161_0022_22708818/
Some (not all) transfers relative to records at the time:
1984 Maradona 7.5 M$ (transfer record 7.5 M$)
1984 Bagni 1.7 M$
1985 Giordano 2.6 M$
1986 De Napoli 3.9 M$
1986 Carnevale 2.7 M$
1986 Romano 1.4 M$
1987 Careca 5 M$ (transfer record 9.6 M$)
1987 Francini 4.4 M$
1988 Crippa 5.6 M$
1988 Fusi 4.2 M$
1988 Alemao 3.4 M$
So Napoli spent more than current transfer record at the time at least 1984,1986,1987,1988 on new players. Which in 11-12 money would mean over 80 M£, relation of ManC spent 11-12 58 M£.
Lire to Dollar http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/EXITUS.txt
Dollar to Pounds https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/EXUSUK.txt
Based on the net spending http://www.trasnfermarkt.com in relation of highest transfer at the time, spending of three seasons before ManC and Napoli won the league:
Napoli 84-85 11.1M$ + 85-86 5.8M$ + 86-87 8.1M$ = 25M$ / (transfer record 7.5M$) = 3.3x transfer record
ManC 09-10 102M£ + 10-11 128M£ + 11-12 58M£ = 288M£ / (transfer record 80M£) = 3.6x transfer record
Any comments Barrilete?
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