Preseason discussion

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:46 pm

LOL, Nick just wants to get rid of all the Spanish on team. First he tries to start a story that Nacho was gone, he doesn't like Morata, Ramos, Isco, thinks it's too soon for Asensio, now Lucas. I haven't heard him  lately saying anything negative about Dani, Castilla, but give him time.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:21 pm

Well, let's at look at it objectively:

Dani Carvajal: a monster of a right-back.

Ramos: A necessary evil. He can be brainless at times, sometimes he can even cost you the game. But his leadership, grit and presence are vital for the Madrid machine to function. He played big part in us winning the Decima and the Undecima.

Morata: he's not good enough. And if I'm being completely honest, neither him nor Benzema deserve to be Madrid's CF. I wanted the club to bring somebody good enough to challenge Benzema for the starting spot, to either force him to up his pathetic work rate or relegate him to the bench. Morata is not that guy.

Nacho: A raw diamond in desperate need of playing time to turn into an elite defender. Calm, composed, smart with good positioning and shrewd game reading. His loyalty made him stay even though Roma came calling. He chose to be Real Madrid's fourth CB than go elsewhere and play every week. I can't help but think how he would've turned out, had he had more playing time.

Asensio: I thought he was good against PSG and Chelsea. And I guess he could be a back-up for the time being, although given his position, I don't think he'll be getting enough playing time to develop. The best thing for him I think would be to loan him out another season and see how it goes.

Lucas: a fighter with heart; you always need those in your team. Less entitled prima donnas and more gladiators please.

Isco: fantastic player in the wrong setup. The same could be said about James. Both would become monsters in the right setup.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:07 am

Lucas is still super average. He is valuable in a team when there are other stars that take charge and he is just running around doing his duties but remove those stars, ask him to take charge and to make things happen and he fails miserably. Some players are leaders, some are followers.

I like Dani, he has heart and all of what you said, a very useful player in all teams as you mentioned, just not talented enough overall, where as he has some interesting qualites. I was hoping for him to lead the kids in those preseason game and he did none of that. Asensio has played much better in comparison.

I recall a time when Jese was playing just as good as Bale before his injury, Vasquez hasnt even gotten close to that.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by Valkyrja on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:27 am

we should have signed that ben arfa guy. dribbling into 4 or 5 players, losing the ball everytime, repeat .

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/1530664/hatem-ben-arfa-mocked-by-david-luiz-hes-the-last-player-to-training-but-the-first-player-to-eat-psg-star-on-new-signing/

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:00 am

Doesnt change that i find him super average

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by sportsczy on Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:04 am

Vasquez is a role player... which is fine. Overall, he is average. But he fulfills his specific role better than average.

Just to compare... Isco and James are not average players. They're very good ones. But they can't fulfill the role that Madrid wants them to. So they aren't effective within Madrid's scheme.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by Valkyrja on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:04 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Doesnt change that i find him super average


yet zidane trusted him to take the first pen in a cl final . he might be not be good enough to start, but managers love having players like him in their roster.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by shadexticos on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:15 am

When will people get over this "Vasquez is average thing" you can never have a world class player stay on the bench for three games and give his all in the only 30 minutes he gets.. This is as good as it gets with bench players..On my part, i will replace all our substitutes with Vasquezs'...He is exactly what every team needs! he is perfect for madrid. 10/10. It doesnt get better for a sub and it never will.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:16 pm

you can have a better player on your bench than an average role player lol.

I like Lucas, he was extremely servicable last year, but i am just pointing out obvious limitations in that his abilities dont allow him to be the guy that breaks or take initiative to decide a game. An easy comparison was Jese few years back, pre injury, when he was clearly going after fullbacks and defenders, looking to ruin them


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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by sportsczy on Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:23 pm

That part I disagree with you Nick... Lucas is an impact sub. He knows his role and fills it very well with maximum effort and, tbh, great effectiveness.

You can be average in terms of overall talent yet have a great impact because you do maximize the talents that you have + bring a great mentality. Prime example is Matuidi who achieves much higher than his talent level. Another one is Casemiro...

You do need role players on a team to make it work.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:58 pm

well, i dont disagree with you, he is a servicable super sub and can have an impact off the bench here and there. Impact sub is usually by definition someone with limited skill set that can be used to the best of his abilities for a short timeframe off the bench.

All i said is, Lucas has limitations. Usually obvious when he starts games as he doesnt have it in him to consistently make plays that win you games. It's not an insult, it's just an observation.

That preaches into my general view that our bench is somewhat underwhelming as far as our forwards. And you dont have to be a world class players to be an aggressive forward. It's just a characteristic, again like Jese, aggressive kid, just never was the same after the injury

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by futbol_bill on Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:08 pm

Nick, just a couple of years ago, you were saying club only needed 16 players. Quess what Lucas in 20th or greater in pecking order. He is a bench player, nothing more, nothing less. But he does bring energy and does his job when called upon. Since when are bench players supposed to be difference makers.

You wanted a winger! That has turned out to be James. Plus it looks like Asensio will be staying (turns out according to Fifa rules (under signing ban), they can't have bought him and loan him out, otherwise they can't recall him for two years). so both of these guys are going to impact Lucas' playing minutes.
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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by sportsczy on Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:36 pm

You need one player on the bench for each specialty that could start and do well if necessary. To me, that's a keeper, CB, fullback, midfielder, winger and striker. We have that now. After that, bench specialists are fine.

I personally don't like putting kids on the bench because you basically are killing their growth. They have to rely on injury to get a good look.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:43 pm

well this season Asensio will be pushed forward from the look of things, we will see how it goes. At least we found a back up to Benzema. That was one of the most important things we had to do going into the season.

Still no back up for Casemiro though. WHy not take a look at Nainggolan for example?

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:19 pm

We play Bayern tomorrow morning 00:30 GMT for those of you who get the times wrong Razz

Carlo is so classy. Even after we chucked him out like he was nothing he still speaks very highly of our club and our players. Hopefully he comes back one day

We have a host of absentees. Hopefully Llorente gets to start with the starters this time. Want him to get used to playing with the first teamers

Probable line up:

Casilla
Danilo-Varane-Nacho-Marcelo
Kovacic-Casemiro-Isco
Lucas-Morata-Asensio
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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by sportsczy on Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:22 pm

We haven't backed up Casemiro or Marcelo. With Jese gone... who backs up Ronaldo? James and Vasquez aren't very good on the left. Asensio maybe?

Ronaldo isn't getting any younger which is why I'm concerned. He may actually miss a game or two.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:46 pm

If Jese leaves which seems increasingly likely Asensio will take his spot. We'll be alright, worst comes to worst we can just put Bale on the left and Lucas on the right
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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:06 pm

@sportsczy wrote:We haven't backed up Casemiro or Marcelo. With Jese gone... who backs up Ronaldo? James and Vasquez aren't very good on the left. Asensio maybe?

Ronaldo isn't getting any younger which is why I'm concerned. He may actually miss a game or two.



But but Sports, you have't been listening!

Marcelo's bacup is Coentrao and until he us healthy it's Nacho.

Casemiro's backup is Kroos or even Modric given he played that role with Croatia. Plus there is a remote possibility that Marcos Llorente will stick with club as a DM or DLM reserve.

Signings are over. End result is Morata, Coentrao, Asensio plus possibly Llorente return, exiting only Jese gone.

The signings are over
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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by sportsczy on Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:17 pm

Horrible horrible horrible plan if this is true. Neither Kroos nor Modric can back up Casemiro properly.

Coentrao is done. He never even played for Monaco lol. Nacho offers no competition to Marcelo.

And besides Morata, we have no other striker on the squad basically other than the starters.

Retarded if true.

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by titosantill on Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:31 pm

you know madrid, we have a penchant for making things unnecessarily interesting. purchase players when we don't need them. and refuse to purchase when we actually need it. i bet if danilo didn't implode last season, the club would probably have thought it would be a good idea to sell carvajal so that danilo has no competition....that's just the way this club thinks at times, upside down
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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by chad4401 on Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:31 am

@sportsczy wrote:Horrible horrible horrible plan if this is true. Neither Kroos nor Modric can back up Casemiro properly.

Coentrao is done. He never even played for Monaco lol. Nacho offers no competition to Marcelo.

And besides Morata, we have no other striker on the squad basically other than the starters.

Retarded if true.


Oh no buy all French players Laughing

@titosantill wrote:you know madrid, we have a penchant for making things unnecessarily interesting. purchase players when we don't need them. and refuse to purchase when we actually need it. i bet if danilo didn't implode last season, the club would probably have thought it would be a good idea to sell carvajal so that danilo has no competition....that's just the way this club thinks at times, upside down


So basically carvajal doesn't need competition regardless of form nor injury, so danilo is a waste of space, but yet you all make cases about benzema for the same reasons Laughing

Typical agenda posting Proud

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by shadexticos on Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:44 am

bayern still pass well..but alot of their passes were impotent passes..they didn't create any chance of note.

madrid still does not have a system for breaking down defenses through the middle...
everyone played fine except morata...been trying to hold it in because it's just preseason, but its also been 'just' preseason for the other players.
morata has been horrible.
based on preseason form, I would have sworn mariano was the juve returnee and morata the castills graduate... that mariano has a good shot and he takes his shots from any angle, he has no rules about angles for taking shots and his shots are always very close..

odegaard has surprised me. he has actually been really good and confident on the ball always dropping deep to build up play, running around hassling opponents and overall intelligent play.

we have so many promising players, its scary. even if they all go on 2 year loan/sale buy back, and eventually turn to world class players, they all cant fit into the first 11.
some should go on a 4 year buy back if possible...lol

oh, kovacic has been improving alot amd casemiro is getting more comfortable with the ball...it's tempting to always pass to modric or kroos though....

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by FennecFox7 on Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:29 am

It's not agenda posting, I think we're overreacting. Lucas average. No. He's not, we're lucky to have him. *bleep* man. We have a bench of Lucas, Danilo, morata, Isco, James, kova, Nacho, and asensio. Can you guys not be grateful for once? Jeez man

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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by halamadrid2 on Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:45 am

So and so game. We are relying too much on Marcelo to create our chances. We need the others to step up. Alot of sloppiness in the first half which is sort of understandable considering Ramos, Modric and James got their first minutes this preseason but we really need to improve in the creativity department, this whole preseason the kids have come on to create better chances than the first team. Thought Morata was poor but improved when we took out the returning players and put on players with more fittness

Marcelo is invaluable for this team. I shudder to think what we'll do if he ever gets injured. ZZ needs to rotate him with someone ffs

Vidal is such a dirty player. He just runs around hacking down our players. Feck off yeah
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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by titosantill on Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:52 am

wait, can this @chad guy read? if english is not your first language then i apologize, but if illiteracy is your problem, i'd advise that you take up some classes, the job market may not be that strong for many, but an education is still valuable. secondly the sarcasm in my post with regards real madrid's modus operandi was not hard to detect at all. only a buffoon won't detect that

secondly, where did i say carvajal doesn't need competition? goodness gracious, for your sake i'll break down the meaning of what i said as best i can. "If....danilo....did....not....implode (totally collapse)....last season...madrid...would...probably....have...sold...carvajal..so ....that danilo...has...nobody...compete...with....him...for..the...spot"

i was painting a scenario of how madrid does business, nowhere does that say anything about carvajal not needing competition, nor danilo for that matter, infact, its the opposite. and it definitely doesn't mention your man-crush. so either learn to read or keep your benzema infatuations to yourself
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Re: Preseason discussion

Post by halamadrid2 on Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:03 am

Chad always posts as if he is facing a cabal with everyone out to get him Laughing
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Re: Preseason discussion

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