Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Raptorgunner on Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:26 pm

srigooner wrote:First one was poor defensive organization, even though Cech eventually ended up in no man's land.

Second was Coquelin tackle and Ox turnover - both being horrendous; as well as Cech going completely wrong.

Neither goal was completely his fault; nor can he be completely absolved for either goal.


Exactly, I believe even if he didn't come out, we would still concede there since it was at such close range. I really feel bad for Cech, the media is going crazy on him.

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by T-Mach on Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:59 pm

Also on the contrary,we seem to trying to save Cech off the blame as well[Not in this forum,but in general}.Yes,he made those errors but there were other players who played a big part in it as well.But still Cech was also at fault,albeit partially.It's for us to accept he can have his off-days too.

The Sanchez coming on situation,I say if we were leading he would probably come in the last few minutes for doing his warm up.But,no we bought him as a game changer with the score being 2-0.That's bad of AW,it's not like players got injured all of a sudden.He knew well in advance he would be short of game changers{Let's assume he had no idea of bringing on Alexis}.Only Theo,in such a scenario he should've at least had Iwobi/Adelaide at least for options sake or tried to   go for the win by playing ugly.

Instead he tries a new formation when he knows if it flops he'll be short of game changers as well.

Believe AW has to take partial blame alongwith the players for the horror show.

And I don't understand the G-Rude hate as well.It's not he's Falcao{Too good before injury and now sh!te}.We know what are G-Rude's strengths and weaknesses.So the team should have played to his strengths.

I just feel this was one-off and let's leave it at that.If we continue to play sh!te as now,this amount of knee jerk is warranted but now I feel its too soon.That said,unless we win our game next weekend,this thread is gonna be busy.

EDIT:On a totally unrelated note,I realized I was one of the top posters for this week.That's how you stat-pad. :coffee:
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:37 pm

This was not a one-off. We have done this way too often.
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:39 pm

And this bunch of players have been around and playing with each other for at least one year now.

Cech's errors were individual mistakes. However, the rest of the back four have been playing together for a good while now. And none of them have persisting communication issues - not like Gabriel was playing ffs.

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:42 pm

@T-Mach wrote:

EDIT:On a totally unrelated note,I realized I was one of the top posters for this week.That's how you stat-pad. :coffee:


Week's only just started m(12*2/3). Don't see you on the list no more :coffee:
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:49 pm

srigooner wrote:
@T-Mach wrote:

EDIT:On a totally unrelated note,I realized I was one of the top posters for this week.That's how you stat-pad. :coffee:


Week's only just started m(12*2/3). Don't see you on the list no more :coffee:


Ok now you're back on it hmm

GL doing weird things hmm
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sina on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:08 pm

Cazorla-Ramsey duo with Gab-Kos sweeping up behind them should be tried for these type of games

Ramsey getting blamed for Coqs in ability to build play imo

Coq-Ram combo can work if ramsey adapt his game but i like him how he is ,he can still be very influential
just find him a better partner

and that Coq-Caz winning formula!!! resulted in Monaco(H),United(A-in the league) and some other poor performances!

even vs lesser sides like burnley and Hull we produced short spells of good football and then failed to control games and opposition fancied themselves to get back in to the game

so i dont blame wenger if he wants to move away from it

4-1-4-1 in big away games with coquelin protecting space between the lines in compact system  or high intensity end to end games when we go with initial high press plan when we need someone to cover across quickly and collect loose balls
he has his use

but for this sorta of games vs inferior team that try disrupts our already not so good build up the problem for me ISNT who partners coq

Everyone was bad but Ramsey was probably our best midfielder always on the ball and trying to make things happen
forever scapegoat?

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:17 pm

I have been one of Ramsey's biggest supporters, even through the times when he was unanimously wanted out by the fanbase.

However, I don't think he was in any way the best midfielder yesterday. There are no prizes for being better than the crap around him, even if he did do that.

The only player who had a reasonably ok performance, for me, was Ox. And then he turned over possession for the goal. So I wouldn't count him either.

For the 358310573158th time since yesterday: :facepalm:
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sina on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:24 pm

so if reinforcements dont arrive,what is the internal solution to improve our build up?
replacing Giroud with Walcott make it even worse imo

cause Gioruds physique and aerial /back to goal at least allows our mids to play off of something and advance to ball up the pitch

Ball playing Center back/Holding Mid that can pass between the lines and control the tempo
pretty certain none will arrive Crying or Very sad

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:29 pm

@Sina wrote:so if reinforcements dont arrive,what is the internal solution to improve our build up?
replacing Giroud with Walcott make it even worse imo

cause Gioruds physique and aerial /back to goal at least allows our mids to play off of something and advance to ball up the pitch


Not true - I think who plays depends on the opposition..

Coming back to yesterday: the problem was not who played, but how they played.

No urgency. No intent. No imagination. Jus lethargic and shambolic.

If you are earning 60k+ p/w, you should at least be getting your basics right. Not play like a bunch of sunday league scrubs.

And then add the tactics disaster. As always, no pressing. Playing against a diamond and not bothering to stretch play. Trying for 95' to force play down the middle, and letting Noble and Oxford boss the middle of the park in the process.

How did introducing Walcott or Alexis change any of that? It didn't!

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sina on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:34 pm

in that case of picking based on oppoisition i would have preferred Welbeck getting chances up top and Theo Remain wide forward
but with Welbz missing pre season i dont know what to think

had high hopes for his improvement with full pre seoasn here

i appreciate what Theo Offers when he play up front but i would demand more from our center forward

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:37 pm

That's true.. Welbeck has the ideal profile really, but he is not the elite level we seek.. Partly because of his Diaby-esque injury record and partly because when he is fit, he is playing on the wing.. *sigh*
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:59 pm

Partly because he's not very good imo.

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:01 pm

srigooner wrote: ... but he is not the elite level we seek...

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Partly because he's not very good imo.


:coffee:
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:03 pm

You say not elite i say bang average hmm

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:04 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:You say not elite i say bang average hmm


Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:06 pm

Both are incorrect spellings hmm

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:08 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Both are incorrect spellings hmm


That means both our evaluations of Welbeck are wrong.

Wengah knows Proud
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:09 pm

I have never been wrong hmm

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:11 pm

You're wrong about this:

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I have never been wrong hmm

hmm
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by RealGunner on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:20 pm

Some fantastic discussion in the last few pages.

Enjoyed reading it.

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Raptorgunner on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:30 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I have never been wrong hmm

You have never been wrong about not being wrong?

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:37 pm

Except the times when i'm wrong Raptor, in which case i was never wrong about those times.

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by urbaNRoots on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:49 pm

@Sina wrote:so if reinforcements dont arrive,what is the internal solution to improve our build up?
replacing Giroud with Walcott make it even worse imo

cause Gioruds physique and aerial /back to goal at least allows our mids to play off of something and advance to ball up the pitch

Ball playing Center back/Holding Mid that can pass between the lines and control the tempo
pretty certain none will arrive Crying or Very sad


I really don't understand the obsession with the hold up play. Please tell me which teams actually use such strikers nowadays, look at our rivals in the first place: Aguero and Costa. Both players offer excellent off the ball movement and compared to that Giroud is really far away. Walcott is the closest thing we have to such a striker even if not the ideal solution.

For me Giroud as our first choice striker is really unacceptable unless we are playing bottom half teams.

As for midfield we need to get back to the successful Coquelin - Cazorla CM midfield and Alexis/Özil/Ramsey or Oxlade-Chamberlain in front of them. It was successful last season and I see no reason why it should not work again.
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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by Raptorgunner on Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:13 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Except the times when i'm wrong Raptor, in which case i was never wrong about those times.

drinking

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

Post by MJ on Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:14 pm

We looked instantly better with Giroud up front in the community shield even if he didn't score and wasted chances to do so.

The fact is that we're a more balances side with him up front as he is an actual CF even if he's not world class or of the standard we want. So regardless of whether Walcott can play there or not, we just don't tick the same way or look as fluid with him up front and yes, partly because Giroud is an effective fulcrum to ping passes off of.

Now, it wouldn't be a bad idea to play Giroud and Walcott together but that's a different story and I don't think anyone wants to see us move to an even narrower and more restrictive formation just to integrate the two.

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Re: Arsenal Vs West Ham [EPL 15/16]

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