Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by RealGunner on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:19 pm

Btw

close to 70 shots with just 1 real goal so far Laughing

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by urbaNRoots on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:22 pm

Not a convincing performance at all but it's always a difficult place for us. 3 points and a clean sheet.

Coquelin/Gabriel were magnificient, one of these two were MotM for me.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by mani88 on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:25 pm

No one in our squad seem to get a goal.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by RealGunner on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:26 pm

Gabriel was impressive indeed

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by urbaNRoots on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:43 pm

Thoughts on Coquelin? I'm just so impressed with his performances. No mistakes, doesn't do things he knows he can't do, incredible reading of the game and general defending.

I was so so wrong about him, I really thought he was finished after his last spell at Arsenal.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Jay29 on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:53 pm

Coquelin impressive alongside Cazorla, it should be noted. His defensive qualities were always good, it's just his ball playing that's suspect.

Anyway, thought the performance was very average, especially against 10 men. We were at walking pace for most of the game, didn't seem to push ourselves beyond the bare minimum, especially after we got the goal. It was a good opportunity to get a few more goals in and maybe improve our confidence in the final third.

A chance conversion is a big problem right now. Walcott started and should have scored. Giroud came on and should have scored. Alexis and Ramsey don't look like goal threats. Cazorla has lost whatever knack for scoring goals he used to have. And the bench options aren't great if we're looking for somebody to stick the ball in the damn goal.

We definitely missed Ozil. The front three was tailor made for him, and he would have seen a lot of the ball after Mitrovic was sent off. Ramsey did well enough in the role but we missed Ozil's precision.

I was disappointed with Ox's performance. Didn't beat anybody with the ball, overhit his final ball and generally didn't make much an impact beside his shot being deflected in.

It's an important three points. At this stage, Arsenal need to grind out the results and hope that the attack sharpens up as the games go by.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by RealGunner on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:56 pm

Yea agreed on Coquelin.

I no longer feel we need a DM. However the only problem is when Coquelin gets injured or suspended. Arteta looks decent though I guess.

Striker is our no 1 priority if something is to happen.

Oxlade played a lot more centrally than I expected. He was occupying cazorla and coquelin's space at times. I thought we played him for width lol.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by MJ on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:57 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:Thoughts on Coquelin? I'm just so impressed with his performances. No mistakes, doesn't do things he knows he can't do, incredible reading of the game and general defending.

I was so so wrong about him, I really thought he was finished after his last spell at Arsenal.


Superb because he knows his role and has his duties nailed down to a t.

Being completely honest, I always thought he had a future here to push Flamini out and be a utility man but he more than exceeded the low expectations I had (and they were far fetched at that, really just looked like he'd leave on a free) and is a starter now. Happy we have an internal 'solution' there.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Twoism on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:08 am

What a dire game though, really shown problem with our attack, either immobile but powerful or pacy but weak. It's 3 points though, a slow start but hang in there with all the points, wonder when we will start our run this year.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by urbaNRoots on Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:26 am

MJ wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:Thoughts on Coquelin? I'm just so impressed with his performances. No mistakes, doesn't do things he knows he can't do, incredible reading of the game and general defending.

I was so so wrong about him, I really thought he was finished after his last spell at Arsenal.


Superb because he knows his role and has his duties nailed down to a t.

Being completely honest, I always thought he had a future here to push Flamini out and be a utility man but he more than exceeded the low expectations I had (and they were far fetched at that, really just looked like he'd leave on a free) and is a starter now. Happy we have an internal 'solution' there.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/20150121/5164573/get-rekt-o-s.gif

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by RealGunner on Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:30 am

ffs
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:56 am

Doubt there are any real questions on Coquelin, when he plays next to Santi.

However, next to Ramsey, he looked so .....

That's why we need another option in there. Because even if Francis is not injured/suspended, we need Santi to also not be injured/suspended at the same time and playing next to him. Of course, Wilshere/Arteta/Rosicky might also work in that role, but you get what I mean.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by MJ on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:04 am

I'm a lot more comfortable with Arteta next to Coquelin than with Ramsey next to Coquelin.

In fact, Arteta has looked pretty decent in his recent cameos.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:09 am

Can't rely on just one of them to last 60 games - that is also going to be an issue.

Inevitably, at some point, I am sure we will see Flamini start again. Make of that, what you will.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:15 am

Wow Arseblog really hates Theo.

Can't remember the last time he had something nice to say about Theo.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Jay29 on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:20 am

Slated him for only having 18 touches in the first half, saying that "wasn't good enough" - what would he have said had Walcott buried one of the chances that came his way?
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:28 am

That's just it. He's obsessed by Theo's touches, which are never too high. And that excessive focus on a particular stat does disservice to the movement and pace and finishing, which are usually Theo's strengths. He isn't a ball playing midfielder or a traditional winger. His job is clearly to score. And that requires just one killer touch (shot), if you want to stretch.

Theo could get people to shut up if he starts scoring though. I have a feeling this Theo/Giroud choice will only get messier, once Welbeck gets in there too.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by RealGunner on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:36 am

Problem with Walcott comes from these situation

1) He starts upfront against teams where he isn't going to be effective like today
2) He doesn't start as a RF where he has always excelled when there is someone like Giroud upfront.

First one is strange because Arsene knows more than anyone else how he isn't going to be effective against deep defences. He still starts him there. Maybe to keep him happy? But that affects the whole team in return.

Giroud might not be top quality, but he at least makes the team work as runners in Ramsey and Sanchez can be effective around him. With Theo, we have to alter our play and make it one dimensional.

With the 2nd point, Walcott would have been fantastic agaisnt liverpool at RW. But Wenger opted for Ramsey which obviously wasn't an entirely wrong decision since Ramsey is one of our best players. But looking at it with Walcott in mind, it would have been better for Walcott to have start at RW as the pressure wouldn't be great for him nor the team's performance would have been effected much (Which it was anyways since giroud decided to channel his inner Milan Jovanovic)

I think Wenger doesn't like starting 3 out n out attackers. Sanchez we all know gives the ball away. Walcott isn't the best with the ball either while Giroud has to be an outlet. So it kills the tactical advantage Arsene likes to deploy with a Ramsey or a Cazorla.

Overall, Arsene has to come up with something which favours everyone. Walcott is not an out n out Striker. He is a RF/LF/CF in the mould of Ljunberg etc. Of course he can still score starting from top. But that's going to be against teams that won't park the bus against us. And let's be honest, there are literally 4-5 teams that wouldn't do it in the PL.



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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Jay29 on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:40 am

Strikers need one or two touches to score. A striker can have 10 touches all game yet score five goals if he's in the right positions.

The idea that a forward always needs to be involved with the build up is wrong imo. When you've got Ramsey and Alexis and Ozil and Santi having so many touches of the ball, why would you want another forward in there wanting the ball as well?

Obviously for the way we play the striker can't be a donkey but let's not forget a striker's primary job is to get into scoring positions and score goals. Theo should get criticism today for his inability to finish, not for his involvement in the build-up.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by MJ on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:44 am

Only got worse for Theo given the fact that the sending off pushed Newcastle so much deeper. Wasn't like it would have been that compact had it been 11 v 11. Different tune had he put away one of those chances but, just like when he scored vs Leicester last year when he was playing up front, he's shown time and again that, as a sole striker, goals aren't enough to warrant giving him that role.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:46 am

Exactly echoing my thoughts, Jay.

@RG: AW's love for an extra midfielder playing wide dates back to before the Invincibles, iirc smh
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:48 am

My thought when Mitrovic was sent off was, 'Damn, this might actually be good for Newcastle; now Theo's not going to do jack.' (I don't mean Jack Wilshere. Rein in your dirty thoughts, you perverts). :/
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:51 am

If Theo creates space with his runs and finishes the chances that are fashioned for him, I have no qualms with him being our first striking option.

However, this team is so used to playing with a target man up top, that they become clueless when they don't have someone to bounce 1-2s off, hit crosses to, or pivot around. Theo as a striker leads invariably to the likes of Sanchez having an ineffective game.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Jay29 on Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:01 am

Newcastle were deep before the sending off, and Walcott still managed to find space in the box for a shot. After the sending off he had that chance he put over, and one with a run to the near post. He can find those spaces. If he's not found that's not always his fault.

He makes good runs to take defenders away, too. It's an underrated part of his game.

Anyway, the main point is a forward for us doesn't need so many touches - he needs to finish chances, and also create space for others with intelligent off the ball movement (moving into channels, taking defenders away, stretching defences, etc). It's annoying that all of our centre forward options are either one thing or another.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:06 am

Welbeck can do both, but he is hardly fit and even when he is, he isn't really elite.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by RealGunner on Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:07 am

GoonerJay29 wrote:Strikers need one or two touches to score. A striker can have 10 touches all game yet score five goals if he's in the right positions.

The idea that a forward always needs to be involved with the build up is wrong imo. When you've got Ramsey and Alexis and Ozil and Santi having so many touches of the ball, why would you want another forward in there wanting the ball as well?

Obviously for the way we play the striker can't be a donkey but let's not forget a striker's primary job is to get into scoring positions and score goals. Theo should get criticism today for his inability to finish, not for his involvement in the build-up.

srigooner wrote:If Theo creates space with his runs and finishes the chances that are fashioned for him, I have no qualms with him being our first striking option.

However, this team is so used to playing with a target man up top, that they become clueless when they don't have someone to bounce 1-2s off, hit crosses to, or pivot around. Theo as a striker leads invariably to the likes of Sanchez having an ineffective game.


GoonerJay29 wrote:Newcastle were deep before the sending off, and Walcott still managed to find space in the box for a shot. After the sending off he had that chance he put over, and one with a run to the near post. He can find those spaces. If he's not found that's not always his fault.

He makes good runs to take defenders away, too. It's an underrated part of his game.

Anyway, the main point is a forward for us doesn't need so many touches - he needs to finish chances, and also create space for others with intelligent off the ball movement (moving into channels, taking defenders away, stretching defences, etc). It's annoying that all of our centre forward options are either one thing or another.

Can't argue against that.

But I'd still insist that eventhough a striker doesn't necessarily need to be involved in the build up, our play does however heavily rely on the forward linking our various runners up. This is why RVP was the ideal striker because he was basically exactly what we required. Someone who was both involved in the build up, and also there to finish the chances. You are right that we have 3 strikers who are good at all 3 different things.

I guess Welbeck is the closest to being a complete package. But I don't know if he has the quality to do it consistently. We haven't seen that properly. And he also seems better off starting wide.

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