Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by RealGunner on Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:37 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:Strikers need one or two touches to score. A striker can have 10 touches all game yet score five goals if he's in the right positions.

The idea that a forward always needs to be involved with the build up is wrong imo. When you've got Ramsey and Alexis and Ozil and Santi having so many touches of the ball, why would you want another forward in there wanting the ball as well?

Obviously for the way we play the striker can't be a donkey but let's not forget a striker's primary job is to get into scoring positions and score goals. Theo should get criticism today for his inability to finish, not for his involvement in the build-up.

srigooner wrote:If Theo creates space with his runs and finishes the chances that are fashioned for him, I have no qualms with him being our first striking option.

However, this team is so used to playing with a target man up top, that they become clueless when they don't have someone to bounce 1-2s off, hit crosses to, or pivot around. Theo as a striker leads invariably to the likes of Sanchez having an ineffective game.


GoonerJay29 wrote:Newcastle were deep before the sending off, and Walcott still managed to find space in the box for a shot. After the sending off he had that chance he put over, and one with a run to the near post. He can find those spaces. If he's not found that's not always his fault.

He makes good runs to take defenders away, too. It's an underrated part of his game.

Anyway, the main point is a forward for us doesn't need so many touches - he needs to finish chances, and also create space for others with intelligent off the ball movement (moving into channels, taking defenders away, stretching defences, etc). It's annoying that all of our centre forward options are either one thing or another.

Can't argue against that.

But I'd still insist that eventhough a striker doesn't necessarily need to be involved in the build up, our play does however heavily rely on the forward linking our various runners up. This is why RVP was the ideal striker because he was basically exactly what we required. Someone who was both involved in the build up, and also there to finish the chances. You are right that we have 3 strikers who are good at all 3 different things.

I guess Welbeck is the closest to being a complete package. But I don't know if he has the quality to do it consistently. We haven't seen that properly. And he also seems better off starting wide.


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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Jay29 on Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:54 pm

Problem is there aren't many striker like van Persie in world football; somebody who combined height and strength with incredible technique, vision and shooting ability. Strikers like that are already at top clubs.

I don't think it helps the team either that it plays with two completely different types of forward on any given week. Perhaps it'd be better to pick one type and commit to it. If we're going to play with a target man lets sign another target man to back-up/compete with Giroud and forget playing Walcott there. If we're going to play with a quick, off-the-shoulder style forward then let's another one, or play Welbeck there again.

I just want to see more structure to our build-up play; actually have a plan about how we're going to create chances instead of sticking as many creative players on the pitch and hoping it magically comes together.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by urbaNRoots on Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:14 pm

If we rely so much on Giroud then we should probably consider changing our style of play. A team that aspires to win big trophies really shouldn't rely so much on a non-elite striker.

Theo didn't have a great game admittedly, but it wasn't for a lack of touches. His movement and quickness served to create two  big chances which at normal circumstances he would finish. Maybe, just maybe, being benched for absolutely no reason at the start of the season having finished the previous season on a high had something to do with his rustiness.

It would be really interesting to see Wenger give Walcott his chance for redemption in our next matchday but  you just know that Wenger will not give him the same chance he gave Giroud after Giroud's performance vs West Ham EVEN though we now won as opposed to vs West Ham.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by 6unner on Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:31 pm

@urbaNRoots wrote:Thoughts on Coquelin? I'm just so impressed with his performances. No mistakes, doesn't do things he knows he can't do, incredible reading of the game and general defending.

I was so so wrong about him, I really thought he was finished after his last spell at Arsenal.


Thought is that if you leave someone there to counteract his deficiencies he looks ok. If he had to stand on his own it would probably cost us. Until him we never had a 2 man holding position.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by 6unner on Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:42 pm

srigooner wrote:Welbeck can do both, but he is hardly fit and even when he is, he isn't really elite.


Theo like Alexis have the ability to pull 2 defenders. Welbeck can barely pull his own. Looks good on the ball but until he can figure out how to shoot he will just be another sparkly thing.
Probably why manu was constantly looking to find anyone else.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by El Gunner on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:30 pm

Dire performance, lucky to get the goal. But 3 points is what it is all about I guess innit

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by silver on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:31 pm

@6unner wrote:
@urbaNRoots wrote:Thoughts on Coquelin? I'm just so impressed with his performances. No mistakes, doesn't do things he knows he can't do, incredible reading of the game and general defending.

I was so so wrong about him, I really thought he was finished after his last spell at Arsenal.


Thought is that if you leave someone there to counteract his deficiencies he looks ok. If he had to stand on his own it would probably cost us. Until him we never had a 2 man holding position.


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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sina on Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:08 pm

worst time for Welbz to be injured
was really hoping for his improvement

Giroud/Theo[as a CF] should be back ups for a team that wants to challenge for major trophy yet we have to rely at least on one to perform each week

Center forward should get at the end of things and DM just break play
both should leave other stuff for more technical lads and guess that way our awesome home record vs well organised sides will continue!!!

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Raptorgunner on Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:20 am

Really poor game, this is not the same team that won the FA cup, poor Walcott. who knows when or where he will play again? one thing is for sure CF is not for Theo. Gabriel Paulista should be our first choice CB no mater who is healthy.

Owngoal is our second highest goal scorer, who needs a striker? Laughing


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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:11 am

Theo can be a CF. Remember, football is a team game.

He can be a bloody good CF if the team plays such that his strengths are given a chance. However, everyone else is too used to playing with a target man up front. And we end up severely limited in the final third if Giroud doesn't start.

It is not enough to start one or the other, if the team doesn't make the mental switch in the style of play that would best suit each of them. And we do have a smart bunch of 5 players behind the striker, who should logically be able to make such a cognitive switcharoo.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by El Gunner on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:47 am

srigooner wrote:Theo can be a CF. Remember, football is a team game.
NO. NO. NO.
Pls don't kid yourself, this is not true!

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:24 pm

@El Gunner wrote:
srigooner wrote:Theo can be a CF. Remember, football is a team game.
NO. NO. NO.
Pls don't kid yourself, this is not true!


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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:25 pm

With Sanogo proving a disappointment, I have shifted my hype to Theo 'Henry 2.0' Walcott now.
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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Raptorgunner on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:28 pm

Theo strongest position in on the wings, RW should be his. On his day Theo can be a good CF, but we dont have time for him develop. Theo can be deadly if we only play counterattacking football.
Giroud has had many terrible performances as CF, still best option and will take us nowhere.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Raptorgunner on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:37 pm

srigooner wrote:With Sanogo proving a disappointment, I have shifted my hype to Theo 'Henry 2.0' Walcott now.


We should have retired #14 jersey. :coffee:

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

Post by Sri on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:34 pm

#9 is the jersey we should be retiring ffs. It's cursed.

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Re: Newcastle vs Arsenal 2015/16 PL (Preview/Live Thread)

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