#WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by RealGunner on Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:58 pm

Don't watch post/pre match stuff anymore but had to watch that. Hope the whole team + Wenger watched that too.

Spot on.


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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Jay29 on Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:19 pm

Putting aside our wimpy mentality, the latest tactics column on Arseblog is pretty revealing:

http://arseblog.com/2016/02/tactics-column-man-united-expose-top-heavy-arsenal/

It's baffling how Wenger can get the side to match Barca for at least 70 minutes then a few days later create a structural mess.
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by RealGunner on Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:20 pm

Flawed genius
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:29 pm

Raptorgunner wrote:Graeme Souness. :bow: Shocked



Meh. Same old, same old.

However I don't know why Wenger would bench Mertesacker.

I don't know why you would continue to name captains you then don't play.

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Raptorgunner on Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:41 pm

Wengers says Arsenal is full leaders and every player is a leader on the field. But the rest of the world see it different way.

Charlie Adam'There's players on other teams, where if you do something wrong, you see them get dug out.

'If I'm beside Glenn Whelan and I do something wrong, he'll dig me out, it doesn't mean he doesn't like me, it's just that he knows you're better than what you are, and sometimes you need that, you need that rollicking to spur you on.

'Playing against Arsenal, I don't see it. I don't see that type of player who gets to that stage where they want to have a go at somebody to try and gee them up and get them going, because sadly, it's missing.'

'I see [Alexis] Sanchez sometimes but he does it the wrong way, he throws his arms in the air and things like that.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3470953/Stoke-City-midfielder-Charlie-Adam-claims-silent-Arsenal-lack-motivators.htm


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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Jay29 on Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:00 pm

Posted this in the rumour thread, but it's relevant here too:

http://www.espnfc.com/barclays-premier-league/23/blog/post/2818906/arsenal-criticism-for-lack-of-leaders-is-missing-the-point

The idea every team needs a strong leader that everyone must look up to is old-fashioned and kind of not relevant anymore. Players are well capable of motivating themselves.

Basically, I don't believe it's a lack of leadership in the team that prevents players from performing when pressure and expectation are high. It's more of an issue with individual character and the collective mentality of the squad, which is effected by all sorts of different factors.
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by El Gunner on Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:04 pm

Yeah but I think that type of leadership can also help every now and then, and even might secure us 5-10 more points a season.

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Peccadillo on Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:11 pm

I think its being blown truly out of proportion.. another case of football fans thinking there is a formula for everything. Tell me.. who are Leicesters leaders exactly? What leaders to Leicester have that this Arsenal squad doesn't?

I bet Wenger watches scrub pundits who come up with this rubbish loling his ass off - Graeme Souness telling him how to manage his squad? Plz Graeme Souness isn't fit to brush AW's shoes.

I'm not denying there is a mentality issue but I highly doubt that its going to take a brave scotty parker to suddenly get those players struggling to "grow a pair".
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:15 pm

Peccadillo wrote:I think its being blown truly out of proportion.. another case of football fans thinking there is a formula for everything. Tell me.. who are Leicesters leaders exactly? What leaders to Leicester have that this Arsenal squad doesn't?

I bet Wenger watches scrub pundits who come up with this rubbish loling his ass off - Graeme Souness telling him how to manage his shoes? Plz Graeme Souness isn't fit to brush AW's shoes.


Agree completely.

Still I don't understand why you'd bench Mertesacker for Gabriel

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by silver on Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:28 am

There's always one story about the Invincibles thought that always gets me. It was late in the season, they had just got knocked out of champions league and FA cup, and losing to Liverpool in the EPL. Half-time, season on the line. Who's there to inspire the troops? Not Wenger - It was Henry and Vieira who did all the talking. Second half, it was Henry who took the game by the scruff of its neck and essentially won us the game.

What do you think happened at half time in the locker room at Old Trafford? Who do you think would have spoken up? There are leaders who take the game by the scruff of the neck, the guys that say "I'm going to get us out of this mess", the players who demand the ball because they know it has to come from them. We are missing those leaders in our team.

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Raptorgunner on Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:59 pm

silver wrote:There's always one story about the Invincibles thought that always gets me. It was late in the season, they had just got knocked out of champions league and FA cup, and losing to Liverpool in the EPL. Half-time, season on the line. Who's there to inspire the troops? Not Wenger - It was Henry and Vieira who did all the talking. Second half, it was Henry who took the game by the scruff of its neck and essentially won us the game.

What do you think happened at half time in the locker room at Old Trafford? Who do you think would have spoken up? There are leaders who take the game by the scruff of the neck, the guys that say "I'm going to get us out of this mess", the players who demand the ball because they know it has to come from them. We are missing those leaders in our team.


Fully agree. Better believe if Henry, Adams were in the locker room at half time being down 2-0 against any team...some players would come out tears in their eyes.

Arsenals main problem is on the field. Once United went up 2-0 Wenger went and sit down and gave the players the silent treatment...Its like he give up before the players, and the players show no passion and no fighting.

Wenger babies the players too much, and it seems the players come before Arsenal football club. Wenger should know us Arsenal fans will never forget him if Spurs win the league.

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Twoism on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:34 pm

Dont care if we have leaders or not. If come May and we still play like crap and losing title to Leicester or Spurs, Wengers and his 11 leaders can kindly gtfo.
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Twoism on Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:45 pm

Yeap we don't need leaders, just Stalin at the back and Putin partnering Giroud.
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Kick on Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:57 pm

silver wrote:There's always one story about the Invincibles thought that always gets me. It was late in the season, they had just got knocked out of champions league and FA cup, and losing to Liverpool in the EPL. Half-time, season on the line. Who's there to inspire the troops? Not Wenger - It was Henry and Vieira who did all the talking. Second half, it was Henry who took the game by the scruff of its neck and essentially won us the game.

What do you think happened at half time in the locker room at Old Trafford? Who do you think would have spoken up? There are leaders who take the game by the scruff of the neck, the guys that say "I'm going to get us out of this mess", the players who demand the ball because they know it has to come from them. We are missing those leaders in our team.


I remember hearing similar stories about Drogba.

But this issue is, where are these leaders nowadays? There seems to be a real lack of them coming through.

And it's not just an issue for Arsenal, it's an issue for us, too. In a world where Eden Hazard is an option for our captains arm band, there is a lack of leaders.

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by SUPERCARTTS on Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:05 pm

Probably better off trying to snare Quique Flores from Watford.
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by RealGunner on Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:00 pm

back on hold
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by MJ on Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:26 pm

Utterly boring.

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by RealGunner on Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:29 pm

Yup

thanks for the memories but its time to say goodbye

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by MJ on Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:34 pm

Whether or not he actually leaves at the season, the question must be asked as to who would take over?

I don't trust our board to appoint anyone ambitious or who could take us forward and take risks and this is definitely not how Wenger envisioned appointing his successor.

Klopp, Guardiola and Ancelotti were snapped up, it looks like Conte is Chelsea-bound and Mourinho (not that I'd ever want him here) is going to United or Cape Verde or something.

Joachim Loew is out there but he's been managing the German national team for a decade. Don't know how well he'd transition into weekly football and the Premier League at that. Would mean Özil might put off leaving for a season or two!

Slaven Bilic seems like a smart, fresh, young manager but Roberto Martinez seemed that way for a season so, not sold there.

Then there's Zidane.

And Bergkamp.

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:36 pm

Favre

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by RealGunner on Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:36 pm

Would go for De Boer. At least he loses with 60% possession
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by RealGunner on Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:37 pm

Tuchel hopefully in all seriousness. Doubt he will downgrade from Dortmund to Arsenal
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Jay29 on Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:54 pm

I see a lot of people asking "but who could we get" and I understand why because there's no so-called elite manager out there just ready for the taking (well, except Mourinho). However, we shouldn't forget that Wenger himself didn't arrive at Arsenal as a hugely successful manager.

I share the concern about the board picking the right guy because there's no football expertise on there. We've got ageing directors who have been at the club years and haven't had to make this decision. The youngest member is Josh Kroenke who probably knows nothing about football. Stan Kroenke is so passive he might as well not be owning the club. It's basically going to be down to Gazidis.

The whole club could do with a shake up, really. Get some ex-players on the board who know the game and know the club. New manager. New coaching staff. New players.

There are good coaches out there doing some great work. Ernesto Valverde (linked with Real Madrid job recently) or Unai Emery (wanted by AC Milan, supposedly the favourite to take over Spain when Del Bosque retires), for example. Lucien Favre didn't end well at BMG but when they were they played good football, defended well, made it hard for opposition teams to play against them. Pellegrini would be a decent option for a couple of years. Conte would have been a good choice before Chelsea got to him first. We could look at Koeman at Southampton, maybe try De Boer. If we want to be really ambitious we can try lure Simeone away from Atleti, or maybe get Low if/when he leaves Germany, or convince Laurent Blanc that PSG is too easy and he needs a real challenge (half-kidding here).

Maybe none of these guys would do as well as Wenger. Maybe they would do better. Point is, we're never going to know until we actually do something. Something HAS to change eventually, because we can't have another season of not adequately strengthening the squad and then falling short of where we want to be by March.
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:00 pm

RealGunner wrote:Tuchel hopefully in all seriousness. Doubt he will downgrade from Dortmund to Arsenal


Sorry I can't let you have Tuchel.

I very much doubt he leaves Dortmund in the foreseeable future, and frankly the moment he does (let's say in 2-3 more seasons) he is very much needed at Bayern.

Coaching talents like Tuchel are the rarest, and most precious, commodity in football.

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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by RealGunner on Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:01 pm

Yea he will attract bigger clubs than us so probably no chance. Madrid always needs a new manager if not bayern.


Think we missed a trick with Conte.


Maybe Allegri can be tempted.
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Re: #WengerOut - This is definitely the definitive opinion

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:09 pm

The funny thing of course is Tuchel was free for a whole year, during most of which it wasn't at all clear Dortmund would be in for him (after all Klopp only decided in spring he'd quit).

In terms of finding a 'successor' for Arsene in Tuchel, you would have to have been a bit quicker (and more daring).

Now it's too late.

Of course, I don't think a man with the ego of Arsene can ultimately be capable of grooming/choosing/preparing the situation for a successor, even if he honestly intends to.
I don't think he's looking for one, either.

Someone else would have to step in there and make decisions, but noone has the authority.
That's the problem with power-concentrations like at Arsenal, or how it was at Man United.

I'm afraid you might be in a world of trouble after Arsene leaves no matter who takes over.

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